Looks like Gabriel Moya is coming up

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

This reeks of "gimmick".  "See what he's got"?--watch him pitch in the minors and you can see it for yourself.  "Low leverage situations"?  Those won't happen until the Twins have either mathematically clinched a WC spot--or have been eliminated.  

 

The Twins need to change philosophy from gimmicks (match-up of P vs H) and move to using quality exclusively.  That won't happen if the FO thinks it's successful.  

First, I'm pretty sure games like that 17-0 slaughter a week ago qualify as "low leverage". The same goes for last night's 3-11 drubbing.

 

A "gimmick"? What, calling a guy up in September? This is what pretty much every team does whether they're making a run at the postseason or not.

 

Third, "quality exclusively" is something two or three teams in all of baseball have a shot at achieving in any given year. Almost every roster in baseball has chaff at the back, particularly in September when your core guys are wearing down and you need warm bodies to fill holes, particularly in blowout games.

[jokin]

 

I. (And Boshers seems like a decent candidate to be dropped from the roster in a month or two anyway.)

 

I think I'd prefer in a day or two, anyway.

[jokin]

 

I get a tear in my eye every time I realize Perkins is still wasting a spot on this roster.

 

It doesn't matter so much in September, but they certainly should have scoured the waiver wires in August and come up with a name that might have been a difference-maker in a few of those one-run losses over having Perk hog a spot for no apparent reason.

[jokin]

 

 

What do you call the last inning on Sunday? I don't think it's necessarily a "gimmick" to get a look at Moya in that situation rather than Tonkin again. Perkins might be the closest thing to a "gimmick" on the current roster, and Moya might take some of his innings, that's good.

 

At this point, Tonkin has used up all of his chances- forever- and....

 

(sadly) Perk is a gimmick wrapped up in an afterthought inside of a nostalgic novelty.

[jokin]

 

Co-championship.

 

Nit-picker

[Government Mule]

 

This reeks of "gimmick".  "See what he's got"?--watch him pitch in the minors and you can see it for yourself.  "Low leverage situations"?  Those won't happen until the Twins have either mathematically clinched a WC spot--or have been eliminated.  

 

The Twins need to change philosophy from gimmicks (match-up of P vs H) and move to using quality exclusively.  That won't happen if the FO thinks it's successful.  

On Sunday the game was low leverage after the second inning.  The games on September  2, 4, and  6. Somehow it should be an easy notion that there will be a few more games like that.  Chicago and Detroit are part of the battle for the worst. 

[Government Mule]

 

At this point, Tonkin has used up all of his chances- forever- and....

 

(sadly) Perk is a gimmick wrapped up in an afterthought inside of a nostalgic novelty.

If Tonkin used up his chances he would not be on the roster.

[Otto von Ballpark]

If Tonkin used up his chances he would not be on the roster.

The primary implication is that Tonkin is out of chances with that poster, meaning he doesn't care to see Tonkin pitch for us again.

 

But even from the front office's perspective, Tonkin is an arm with some experience who was going to be a minor league free agent in about a month. That's why he's back for expanded roster mop-up work. Hard to see that as any kind of meaningful "chance." I would be shocked if he stayed on the 40-man roster after the season.

[Government Mule]

 

The primary implication is that Tonkin is out of chances with that poster, meaning he doesn't care to see Tonkin pitch for us again.

But even from the front office's perspective, Tonkin is an arm with some experience who was going to be a minor league free agent in about a month. That's why he's back for expanded roster mop-up work. Hard to see that as any kind of meaningful "chance." I would be shocked if he stayed on the 40-man roster after the season.

Sorry that it really did not dawn on me that the true subject of the other poster was not the career of Michael Tonkin but their personal feelings.  I  don't think that way. Craig Breslow, you know that guy 0 ERA in a small sample size for Cleveland, would be proof that no one is out of chances if someone thinks you have talent. Tonkin aint going anywhere

[Otto von Ballpark]

Sorry that it really did not dawn on me that the true subject of the other poster was not the career of Michael Tonkin but their personal feelings. I don't think that way. Craig Breslow, you know that guy 0 ERA in a small sample size for Cleveland, would be proof that no one is out of chances if someone thinks you have talent. Tonkin aint going anywhere

It's a fan message board, it is full of opinions by definition.

 

Breslow has made 4 appearances with Cleveland, with an average score differential of 6.75 runs. He's an arm filling out expanded rosters too, with not much of a chance at making their playoff roster.

 

I get this "it's not over until it's over" thing, but if Tonkin's Twins career was a ball game, his team is down 8 runs going into the final two innings. Nothing wrong with mentioning probability at that point, and not just possibility.

[Blackjack]

Having Perkins on the roster, pitching very few innings in low leverage situations isn't hurting the Twins.

 

Its actually a classy move by the Twins, showing some respect for a veteran that has contributed much to the Twins over the years and fought his way back to the mound after a long injury rehab.

 

Hopefully Perkins will realize he's done and will exit gracefully by retiring after the season. Thats what letting him pitch a few innings now in September does, lets him know he's done.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Having Perkins on the roster, pitching very few innings in low leverage situations isn't hurting the Twins.

 

Generally agreed, although they still felt like they needed yet another pitcher, and it looks like they are going to have to cut someone else to make that happen. Probably someone who would get cut after the season anyway, but still.

[Otto von Ballpark]

FWIW, by my calculations, Perkins reached exactly 10 years service time yesterday. 9 years 10 days coming into the year, yesterday was the 162nd day of the season, and 172 days equals a "year".

[Vanimal46]

 

FWIW, by my calculations, Perkins reached exactly 10 years service time yesterday. 9 years 10 days coming into the year, yesterday was the 162nd day of the season, and 172 days equals a "year".

 

Then he may be on short time with the club the rest of the season. Or maybe he'll be looked at as a coach more than a player. Who knows. 

[drjim]

 

It doesn't matter so much in September, but they certainly should have scoured the waiver wires in August and come up with a name that might have been a difference-maker in a few of those one-run losses over having Perk hog a spot for no apparent reason.

 

Kind of amazing this thought never crossed the minds of the front office.

[prouster]

My gut would have told me I better hedge those guys with Moya, since he was likely to be added by November anyway.

Of course I haven't read every post on every thread, but I don't recall Moya's name coming up a whole lot lately. Funny that he gets called up with twenty games left, and suddenly he should have been up with thirty.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Having Perkins on the roster, pitching very few innings in low leverage situations isn't hurting the Twins.

 

Its actually a classy move by the Twins, showing some respect for a veteran that has contributed much to the Twins over the years and fought his way back to the mound after a long injury rehab.

 

Hopefully Perkins will realize he's done and will exit gracefully by retiring after the season. Thats what letting him pitch a few innings now in September does, lets him know he's done.

 

It will matter if they make the post season and he's on the roster instead of someone that can help.

[beckmt]

Doubt Perkins will be on a postseason roster for the Twins.  FO is holding auditions for the backend pieces.

[howieramone2]

 

I don't think Moya necessarily will be better. But if he was going to be added to the roster anyway, might as well add him and give him a few low leverage innings to check him out. It would have beat putting all of our eggs in the Boshers basket for the first part of the month. (And Boshers seems like a decent candidate to be dropped from the roster in a month or two anyway.)

Board favorite Vargas also.

[TRex]

 

FWIW, by my calculations, Perkins reached exactly 10 years service time yesterday. 9 years 10 days coming into the year, yesterday was the 162nd day of the season, and 172 days equals a "year".

You didn't overtly say this but, just in case someone doesn't know, full MLB retirement benefits vest at 10 years.

[yarnivek1972]

You didn't overtly say this but, just in case someone doesn't know, full MLB retirement benefits vest at 10 years.

A guy who's made roughly $ 30 mil in salary really shouldn't need full retirement brnefits. As I note on my Yahoo feed that Clinton Portis just filed for bankruptcy.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Of course I haven't read every post on every thread, but I don't recall Moya's name coming up a whole lot lately. Funny that he gets called up with twenty games left, and suddenly he should have been up with thirty.

I am sure you think this is some kind of gotcha, but if the team thinks Moya has a shot at contributing this month, then I think it's fair to question the timing of this. The MLB pennant race was more important than the AA playoffs, and getting some experience for Moya in the lower stakes of early September was probably more important than getting yet another look at, say, Tonkin.

 

If he's just another mop-up arm, obviously it doesn't matter much. Although with a full 40-man roster, I am not sure they try to squeeze in Moya now without some hope that he can do more than mop-up work. (Also, how many mop-up guys do we need?)

[Mike Sixel]

 

Doubt Perkins will be on a postseason roster for the Twins.  FO is holding auditions for the backend pieces.

 

would that require a DL trip?

[drjim]

 

would that require a DL trip?

 

No. Anyone on the 40 man can be on the postseason roster. Anyone in the org on September 1 (not on the 40 man) is eligible if there is an equal number on the 60 man.

 

So Moya can be on the postseason roster as a replacement for, say, Santiago.

[prouster]

 

I am sure you think this is some kind of gotcha, but if the team thinks Moya has a shot at contributing this month, then I think it's fair to question the timing of this. The MLB pennant race was more important than the AA playoffs, and getting some experience for Moya in the lower stakes of early September was probably more important than getting yet another look at, say, Tonkin.

If he's just another mop-up arm, obviously it doesn't matter much. Although with a full 40-man roster, I am not sure they try to squeeze in Moya now without some hope that he can do more than mop-up work. (Also, how many mop-up guys do we need?)

 

Okay, but where were you with this last week? If calling up Moya specifically was so urgent then, why wait until now to harp on it? My argument isn't "the bullpen is fine and needs no help." My argument is that one can always make oneself appear correct when they retroactively change the terms of a debate.

 

And what kind of sense does it make to say something should have been done earlier, when that "something" doesn't seem like it actually occurred to anyone earlier? Anyway, I don't know why I respond to posts like this. Every time a player is called up, there's someone saying it should have happened weeks ago.

[Otto von Ballpark]

A guy who's made roughly $ 30 mil in salary really shouldn't need full retirement brnefits. As I note on my Yahoo feed that Clinton Portis just filed for bankruptcy.

Not just pension, but also lifetime health insurance for his spouse. Which can be important, as Doug Mientkiewicz would attest.

 

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/mar/28/sports/sp-dodgers-fyi28

 

Mientkiewicz looked relieved when he heard that. With five more months in the majors, the 34-year-old utilityman will have 10 years of service time, which would improve his retirement benefits. Mientkiewicz has already assured himself of receiving healthcare for the rest of his life; reaching 10 years will ensure that his wife, Jodi, is also covered.

 

That's of utmost importance in light of what happened last year, Mientkiewicz said.

 

While Mientkiewicz was playing for the Pittsburgh Pirates, Jodi was discovered to have a viral infection that caused a complete blockage in a crucial area of her heart. She had surgery in August and had a pacemaker installed.

 

"It's kind of put this whole thing in perspective," said Mientkiewicz, who is with his seventh club in six years.

[drjim]

 

I am sure you think this is some kind of gotcha, but if the team thinks Moya has a shot at contributing this month, then I think it's fair to question the timing of this. The MLB pennant race was more important than the AA playoffs, and getting some experience for Moya in the lower stakes of early September was probably more important than getting yet another look at, say, Tonkin.

If he's just another mop-up arm, obviously it doesn't matter much. Although with a full 40-man roster, I am not sure they try to squeeze in Moya now without some hope that he can do more than mop-up work. (Also, how many mop-up guys do we need?)

 

I wonder if they had no intention of calling him up until all the lefties (outside of Rogers) ended up being terrible for the first 10 days.

 

I would say it is defensible to have your 5th LH reliever option continue to pitch in a minor league playoff race over calling him up to the majors and mostly not pitch.

[Mike Sixel]

 

No. Anyone on the 40 man can be on the postseason roster. Anyone in the org on September 1 (not on the 40 man) is eligible if there is an equal number on the 60 man.

 

So Moya can be on the postseason roster as a replacement for, say, Santiago.

 

I get that, the question is about replacing Perkins. I thought if you weren't on the 25 man roster by Sept 1, someone had to be DL'd to be replaced. I must have it wrong.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Okay, but where were you with this last week? If calling up Moya specifically was so urgent then, why wait until now to harp on it? My argument isn't "the bullpen is fine and needs no help." My argument is that one can always make oneself appear correct when they retroactively change the terms of a debate.

The "terms of the debate" didn't change. More evidence came in. This isn't about me scouting Moya and thinking he's great, now or Sep. 1st. It's about seeing the new evidence that Moya is getting called up to maybe give a suspect pen a shot in the arm, and wondering if that is the case, should we have done that Sep. 1st instead of waiting until Sep. 12? We already knew the pen was suspect back then, and this sort of confirms that the 40-man, lack of AAA experience, or Moya's workload did not disqualify him from a call-up in the front office's eyes.

 

And please don't think of every post here as part of scoring debate points. We are all fans having a discussion. I just thought it was interesting that we delayed this promotion for 10 games. You can disagree without suggesting I am doing something improper.

[Otto von Ballpark]

I wonder if they had no intention of calling him up until all the lefties (outside of Rogers) ended up being terrible for the first 10 days.

 

I would say it is defensible to have your 5th LH reliever option continue to pitch in a minor league playoff race over calling him up to the majors and mostly not pitch.

Sure. That would mean he's mostly mop-up, in which case I already stipulated that it doesn't much matter.

 

But the suspect performance of our other pen options wasn't exactly a surprise. I mean, if I think I need another lefty to pair with Rogers, I don't think I wait for Boshers and Turley and Perkins to disappoint for another 10 games before I consider Moya, not when there were only 30 games to go anyway. Not that you cut the other guys, but we could have Moya's "feet wet" appearances out of the way now, and we could have tried him in a Boshers type spot tonight if we wanted.