Rosario

[DaveW]

Don't care how much talent this guy has, his lack of patience and approach at the plate is terrible.

 

Needs to be the first guy in the trading block this off season to get more pitching.

 

Delmon Young version 2.0

[Doubles]

I believe this take will be met with a great deal of resistance.

[DaveW]

You can't take at bats like that. That's a season crushing at bay potentially.

 

Dude is having issues throwing strikes, and you go up hacking as per usual at the first pitch, a tailor made double play.

 

Yeah Rosario had a hot couple weeks, but the league always catches up to these guys.

 

He's a solid player and has a long career ahead of him, but imo will never reach his peak, thus worth trading for a high upside SP.

[snepp]

.860 OPS since the middle of April.

 

 

A couple hot weeks indeed.

[ashbury]

Dude is having issues throwing strikes, and you go up hacking as per usual at the first pitch, a tailor made double play.

 

Yeah Rosario had a hot couple weeks, but the league always catches up to these guys.

So a pitcher momentarily having trouble finding the strike zone has Rosario's number. Got it.

[70charger]

The hottest of hot takes!

 

I say we don't just DFA him. I say we nuke him!

[bird]

Taking great license, that AB might actually serve as a microcosm of where Rosario is at as a hitter. In the past, an excitable Rosario would swing at every pitch, and wouldn't see a pitch in the strike zone. The pitch he swung at WAS in the strike zone, perhaps because he's been laying off bad pitches more often. Maybe his next plateau will be to have the calmness, and the patience, to recognize that some strikes, early in the count, might even be worth passing on. Did he hit the ball hard? It was outside, and he took it the opposite way, so we can't accuse him of rolling it over weakly to the second baseman, right?

 

I think it's unfair to make it sound like he was just going to hack at whatever pitch was tossed up there. I agree he has room to improve. He might be an incredibly dangerous hitter if he had more discipline, but I don't know how you reach such an easy conclusion that he never will be more disciplined. He's made strides this season.

[DaveW]

Again he's prime trade bait. Use him to get an SP or two. Have Kepler and Buxton hold down the Of and sign a FA corner OF type.

[snepp]

Why would someone give up big upside pitching if he's so obviously just a solid player that will never reach his potential?

[twinsnorth49]

Is this hyperbolic overreaction number 724 or 725?

 

I've lost count.

 

On the bright side though, my watch is working perfectly.

[Brandon Warne]

Aren't you the guy who is blowing up Aaron Hicks? 

[DaveW]

Why would someone give up big upside pitching if he's so obviously just a solid player that will never reach his potential?

Some teams are dumb, Delmon Young fetched a pretty good young pitcher IIrC

[ashbury]

Aren't you the guy who is blowing up Aaron Hicks? 

Mod note: While true, and perhaps even relevant, I'd like to ask all to leave the personal aspect of it out of the discussion, and keep it to Rosario the player, in at least broad terms.

[bighat]

I can't believe I'm playing the voice of reason here, because I usually agree with most knee-jerk takes. Brutal loss. Just a brutal end to a terrible game. While Rosario's GIDP was a terrible gut punch at the end of the game, I'm not sure it was his fault the Twins lost today. This team can't hit TBs pitching for some reason and everyone holding a bat tonight was terrible. 

 

How about this Taylor Rogers, did he allow another inherited runner to score? Remember when everyone was talking about him like he was Dennis Eckersly? He's awful and I hope if the Twins ditch anyone over the winter, it's TR. 

[Han Joelo]

Setting aside anything about last night's at bat, I guess the idea that Rosario could be traded for pitching might have some validity.  Could actually be a valuable trade chip, as long as you weren't trading him the day after he did something exasperating.

 

I wouldn't do it, though.  Eddie's got personality.  He's the Jacque Jones of this group.

[Taildragger8791]

Expecting Rosario to be a finished product at this point is a little unfair. He's made great strides and it's pretty normal for non-elite talents to take 4-5 years to become a mature hitter at the Major League level. I trust that he'll continue to improve at situational baseball but he'll always be aggressive when he gets his pitch and that's what has made him into an effective hitter this year. Pretty tough to take that away.

 

As for last night, he still swung at a clear strike which is something Mauer is always chided for passing on. He even fired it right back up the middle like good hitters have always been taught to do. Unfortunately the (increasingly annoying) shift was sitting on 2B and got the easy DP. Round ball, round bat, stuff happens.

[yarnivek1972]

I can't believe I'm playing the voice of reason here, because I usually agree with most knee-jerk takes. Brutal loss. Just a brutal end to a terrible game. While Rosario's GIDP was a terrible gut punch at the end of the game, I'm not sure it was his fault the Twins lost today. This team can't hit TBs pitching for some reason and everyone holding a bat tonight was terrible.

 

How about this Taylor Rogers, did he allow another inherited runner to score? Remember when everyone was talking about him like he was Dennis Eckersly? He's awful and I hope if the Twins ditch anyone over the winter, it's TR.

No, he did not. The Rays second run was in the 6th inning on a double by Duda plating Longoria. Rogers came in with two on, two out in the 7th and got a groundout to end the inning. IMO, Rogers has EASILY been the most reliable reliever the Twins have had this year. He's only allowed 4 of 28 inherited runners to score all season. Compare to Ryan Pressly, who has allowed 10 of 31 to score.  Or even Trevor Hildenberger, who has allowed 5 of 18 inherited runners to score. Wanting to get rid of Rogers (ahead of ANYONE else no less) makes zero sense to me.

[laloesch]

 

Don't care how much talent this guy has, his lack of patience and approach at the plate is terrible.

Needs to be the first guy in the trading block this off season to get more pitching.

Delmon Young version 2.0

 

Until there is a viable alternative to Rosario I wouldn't trade him unless the deal is awesome.

[rdehring]

The Twins should bring back all 12-13 of the players they are putting out there every day this year. It ain't broke, so don't fix it. These players are young and will only get better over the coming years. And yes, that includes Rosario. Not only may be their best hitter, he is part of the chemistry that will make this team special.

 

The pitching can be fixed without breaking up this young group.

[Major League Ready]

This team is still young.  Just when I thought Rosario’s approach or lack thereof would result in him being a 4th outfielder, he got better.  His ABs last year and the start of this year made Vlad Guerrero look like Wade Boggs.  The AB last night and some others recently in key situations have been poor.  Hopefully, he learns to intensify his plate discipline in key ABs.   To call for a trade of a guy who has been one of the best players on the team because of a couple bad ABs is just silly.   Sano’s plate discipline has been very inconsistent the last couple months too.  Should we trade him too?

 

Then there is the fact that SPs are the most scarce commodity in baseball.  We are not getting a MLB ready front of the rotation SP for Rosario. 

[Mike Sixel]

 

The Twins should bring back all 12-13 of the players they are putting out there every day this year. It ain't broke, so don't fix it. These players are young and will only get better over the coming years. And yes, that includes Rosario. Not only may be their best hitter, he is part of the chemistry that will make this team special.

The pitching can be fixed without breaking up this young group.

 

How? They are going to outbid the other teams for one of hte three good FAs? They will suddenly start trading prospects? How will the pitching get fixed?

 

As for Rosario......I've fluctuated back and forth on him over the years. He always seemed like a natural hitter to me, but until this year he's shown no patience. He's a legit MLB player, the question is, is he more valuable to the Twins as a player here, or in acquiring other player(s). Without knowing the offers, I can't answer that. But, if they could get 2 minor league pitchers less than 2 years away that they believe in, I'd be tempted....

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

How? They are going to outbid the other teams for one of hte three good FAs? They will suddenly start trading prospects? How will the pitching get fixed?

 

As for Rosario......I've fluctuated back and forth on him over the years. He always seemed like a natural hitter to me, but until this year he's shown no patience. He's a legit MLB player, the question is, is he more valuable to the Twins as a player here, or in acquiring other player(s). Without knowing the offers, I can't answer that. But, if they could get 2 minor league pitchers less than 2 years away that they believe in, I'd be tempted....

Ditto. One can think Rosario will be a fine player without loving his profile and wondering if he will cave in the moment his wrists slow a bit (probably a few years away at minimum).

 

I'm in no rush to move Eddie but trading him for a pitcher and acquiring a RH OF bat to replace him would round out the roster a bit.

 

Then again, if I have questions about Rosario, so do most GMs, making the point somewhat moot. Hard to say what kind of value he'd bring in return.

[yarnivek1972]

Exactly. If fans can easily see the shortcomings of Rosario's game, so can professional baseball scouts and player personnel people. Contrary to an earlier post, those decision makers are not dumb.

 

Sure you listen. You ALWAYS listen. But one has to weigh the return vs the loss. Realistically, what are the Twins going to get for a corner OFer who has posted basically league average numbers for the first three years of his career? Might get one close to MLB ready pitcher. I doubt two. Pitching is still the far more valuable asset. Those who have it get what THEY want. Not the other way around.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Exactly. If fans can easily see the shortcomings of Rosario's game, so can professional baseball scouts and player personnel people. Contrary to an earlier post, those decision makers are not dumb.

Sure you listen. You ALWAYS listen. But one has to weigh the return vs the loss. Realistically, what are the Twins going to get for a corner OFer who has posted basically league average numbers for the first three years of his career? Might get one close to MLB ready pitcher. I doubt two. Pitching is still the far more valuable asset. Those who have it get what THEY want. Not the other way around.

 

Well, not everyone agrees he has some tragic flaw......I don't get how people can argue he's super awesome for the Twins, but has no value to any other team. Also, teams are built on context. Some teams have lots of minor league talent, but are missing major league talent. Some teams are the opposite. Some need hitting, some need pitching.

 

This thought that somehow the Twins just are so unlucky that every other team can make trades, but somehow the Twins just can't? Silly, imo.

[VirginSturgeon]

This whole thread seems pointless besides the trade value discussion of Rosario, otherwise he has performed well and hit the ball hard last night.  I am glad he swung at the first pitch.  I just turned and told my wife that sucks when I saw he hit right into the shift.  Baseball happens :-)

[Bill]

Whenever Rosario comes up in an important situation, I usually say for the benefit of whoever is also in the room "Eddie.... please... you don't have to swing at the first pitch."  

 

His OPS on the first pitch is over 1000, so maybe I am dwelling too much on the times when he swings at some barely hittable pitch and gets out right away. 

 

I wonder how often MLB players are instructed to take until they get a strike.  Is that frowned upon as something for little kids? Did Polanco have a take sign in the previous at bat?  If I recall right, he squared to bunt on the first pitch... He couldn't have possibly been sacrificing (I hope, at least).  Was he just taking?

[alarp33]

 

This whole thread seems pointless besides the trade value discussion of Rosario, otherwise he has performed well and hit the ball hard last night.  I am glad he swung at the first pitch.  I just turned and told my wife that sucks when I saw he hit right into the shift.  Baseball happens :-)

 

Swinging at the 1st pitch when a reliever on the ropes can't throw a strike is... not something to be happy about.. 

 

Rosario has had a much better year than I expected, and is learning some patience at the plate.  I do think he's one of the dumber / most frustrating players to watch.  The throws to the wrong base, swinging at a 1st pitch in that situation, etc are extremely frustrating.  Dave probably went a little overboard on his posts, but I agree with his sentiment to a degree

[bird]

 

Until there is a viable alternative to Rosario I wouldn't trade him unless the deal is awesome.

 

 

Exactly. Trade from genuine surplus and don't leave a hole to (potentially) fill another one. Aaron Hicks and Denard Span should serve as constant reminders.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Exactly. Trade from genuine surplus and don't leave a hole to (potentially) fill another one. Aaron Hicks and Denard Span should serve as constant reminders.

 

so, do what to fix the pitching, then? Just keep trotting out Gee, Turley, Tepesch, Santiago, et. al.? The mistake in those trades was that they traded both of them, and didn't have a lot of other good OFers either. Right now, the Twins have probably got three legit OF, plus Wade and Granite as backups....and they have ESan and Berrios for SPs signed next year.....plus Mejia. That's it. You need 7-10 SPs....

[rghrbek]

 

Swinging at the 1st pitch when a reliever on the ropes can't throw a strike is... not something to be happy about.. 

 

Rosario has had a much better year than I expected, and is learning some patience at the plate.  I do think he's one of the dumber / most frustrating players to watch.  The throws to the wrong base, swinging at a 1st pitch in that situation, etc are extremely frustrating.  Dave probably went a little overboard on his posts, but I agree with his sentiment to a degree

 

Tend to agree here.  Eddie has far exceeded my expectations with his hot streak from June until, well a week ago.  I think his bat plays at the MLB level.  He appears to be able to hit left handed pitching.

 

However, he is not very good in left field, and he is also not a very good base runner.  I just think this is who he is.  I am not super pissed at him for swinging at the first pitch last night.  We needed to drive the runner in, to at least tie the game.  It didn't happen.

 

I would be more worried about how the Twins perform against teams with adequate to above adequate SP.  Not very well.