Go get Verlander

[USAFChief]

 

It's not time now and it wasn't time last August. We're not one piece away now, and we weren't one piece away last August. It is too costly now and it was too costly last August. The player doesn't want to come here now and he didn't want to come here last August. These are not excuses. These are reasons, and good ones.

Will it be time at some point in the future? Will we be one piece away at some point in the future? Will the cost be acceptable at some point in the future? Will the player want to come here at some point in the future? I truly hope so.

1. I completely don't understand the "we're not one player away" theory. You're trying to get better, and adding a better player does that. Add more than one better player. But you have to start somewhere. If you really could determine that you were one player away, you'd never get there anyway, since you wouldn't make the moves necessary to get to where you were one player away.

 

2. It was never too costly. Are we, or are we not, a major league team interested in competing for a WS. Or are we the Washington Generals, just around to give the real teams someone to play?

 

3. It's possible he would never have agreed to waive his no trade deal to come to Minnesota. But he said the same about Houston at first, too. My guess is, when push came to shove, he just wanted out of Detroit, and would have agreed to whatever deal the TIgers arrived at. Which is what ended up happening, by the way.

 

Verlander represented exactly the type trade a team looking to upgrade should be trying to find. A genuine difference maker, rarely available, but who circumstances had combined to make just so.

 

And while we can't be sure, I'd be willing to bet that he wouldn't have coughed up that 3-0 lead in the AL Wild Card Game at Yankee Stadium. Which would have been worth the price, no matter the price.

[jimmer]

Verlander wasn't going to waive his no trade clause to come to Minnesota.  The team wasn't a true World Series contender and he was only going to go to waive his no trade clause to go to a team that was a true contender for a title.

 

These kind of hypothetical 'we should have done this move or that move' posts have no basis in reality.  It would have never happened.  No matter how sweet we made the offer, Verlander wouldn't have cared about that.  He's not the Tigers GM, he's a player.  A player who wouldn't have reaped any benefit from letting Detroit have the haul it would have taken. He wasn't going to come here no matter how sweet we made if for Detroit.  And he certainly doesn't extend to stay here either, so it doesn't matter what he's done this year as an Astro either.

 

Of course, if our team was a true contender, we should have offered what it took cause that's what you do to get a true ace, but we weren't a true contender, so...

[USAFChief]

Verlander wasn't going to waive his no trade clause to come to Minnesota. The team wasn't a true World Series contender and he was only going to go to waive his no trade clause to go to a team that was a true contender for a title.

 

These kind of hypothetical 'we should have done this move or that move' posts have no basis in reality. It would have never happened. No matter how sweet we made the offer, Verlander wouldn't have cared about that. He wasn't going to come here no matter how sweet we made if for Detroit. And he certainly doesn't extend to stay here either, so it doesn't matter what he's done this year as an Astro either.

Verlander is on a contract through 2019. And was at the time of the trade. It wasn’t a half year rental. That was one of the attractions. He would still be a Twin.

 

The rest of your post is speculation.

[alarp33]

 

Verlander is on a contract through 2019. And was at the time of the trade. It wasn’t a half year rental. That was one of the attractions. He would still be a Twin.

The rest of your post is speculation.

This entire thread was speculation.  I agree with those saying no chance Verlander was waiving his no trade clause to come here.  

[USAFChief]

 

This entire thread was speculation.  I agree with those saying no chance Verlander was waiving his no trade clause to come here.  

Well, the entire thread except the part about needing an extenstion.

 

[TheLeviathan]

Chief, you also swore Plouffe would be better than Donaldson and that Tulo wouldn't "fall off a cliff".  Hindsight can make us all look brilliant or foolish.  (I was heavy on trading for Cole, but I also really wanted Alex Cobb.  Just so I'm not exempt from it too)

 

We can all play the gotcha games.  If the point is "The Twins should be more aggressive" - save it for the offseason, most of us agree.  Using this as an example is just silly.  You might as well suggest the Twins are fools for not having Buddha play catcher and Shiva pitch.

 

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Chief, you also swore Plouffe would be better than Donaldson and that Tulo wouldn't "fall off a cliff".  Hindsight can make us all look brilliant or foolish.  (I was heavy on trading for Cole, but I also really wanted Alex Cobb.  Just so I'm not exempt from it too)

 

We can all play the gotcha games.  If the point is "The Twins should be more aggressive" - save it for the offseason, most of us agree.  Using this as an example is just silly.  You might as well suggest the Twins are fools for not having Buddha play catcher and Shiva pitch.

Never mind that if we want to play the gotcha game, it turns out that this team needed JD Martinez, not Justin Verlander (or Yu Darvish).

 

Who called that before the season started? Certainly not me and certainly not anyone else I remember on this forum.

[Monkeypaws]

Can we change the name of the thread to "Go get Machado"?

[Squirrel]

Can we change the name of the thread to "Go get Machado"?

OMG ... I would LOVE Machado. Never gonna happen but if I could choose anyone right now, he’d be IT!

[old nurse]

 

Never mind that if we want to play the gotcha game, it turns out that this team needed JD Martinez, not Justin Verlander (or Yu Darvish).

 

Who called that before the season started? Certainly not me and certainly not anyone else I remember on this forum.

Trying Aybar, Sanchez, Pineda  Lynn and Morrison cost mote this year than signing Martinez to an offer better than Boston's . It would have been money better spent this year.

[old nurse]

 

 

Can we change the name of the thread to "Go get Machado"?

If Baltimore accepts the kind of return Detroit got for Martinez it would be a doable trade.  If they expect the kind of package the Yankees got for Chapman they will likely not get a deal done.

[Vanimal46]

OMG ... I would LOVE Machado. Never gonna happen but if I could choose anyone right now, he’d be IT!

The Twins have the prospects to complete that deal.

 

Can Falvine get him to buy into the future vision of the team where he resigns? Why not rent before you buy?

[Jerr]

Didn't happen, won't happen, never will happen.

Letting go and moving on, is a good thing to do.....

 

                               

[Mike Sixel]

Didn't happen, won't happen, never will happen.

Letting go and moving on is a good thing to do           

 

This specific trade, or ever trading legit prospects for stars? Because this reads like the realmuto thread....

[alarp33]

 

Trying Aybar, Sanchez, Pineda  Lynn and Morrison cost mote this year than signing Martinez to an offer better than Boston's . It would have been money better spent this year.

 

Martinez signed a $110 million contract.  Aybar, Sanchez, Pineda, Lynn Morrison combined for around $30 million.  I can't tell if you are just trolling or not, but obviously no one would look at only 1 year of a 5 year contract when discussing what Martinez got

[Brock Beauchamp]

Trying Aybar, Sanchez, Pineda Lynn and Morrison cost mote this year than signing Martinez to an offer better than Boston's . It would have been money better spent this year.

The only real money there is tied up in Morrison and Lynn, two last minute “aw, why not?” signings.

 

Never mind that neither has a monetary commitment past this season.

[USAFChief]

 

Never mind that if we want to play the gotcha game, it turns out that this team needed JD Martinez, not Justin Verlander (or Yu Darvish).

 

Who called that before the season started? Certainly not me and certainly not anyone else I remember on this forum.

If we really want to get into this:

 

1) The trade would have been completed last year, when Verlander would have been more needed. He'd still be here today, by the way, and would be as big an upgrade as JD Martinez would be. And I'd wager a lot of money the Twins win that WC game if you hand Verlander a 3-0 lead in the top of the first. From there, who knows. The Twins would have been underdogs, but we all know that's not a death sentence in the post season.

 

2) Many of us asked for a RH hitting outfielder this past winter. JD Martinez was out there. I wouldn't have complained about signing him. 

 

 

[TheLeviathan]

The Twins have the prospects to complete that deal.

Can Falvine get him to buy into the future vision of the team where he resigns? Why not rent before you buy?

Because the rental rate is absurd? We will have the ability to buy anything we want this offseason. If we don’t....that’s the time to light torches. This criticism has about as much validity as a thread about why Batman isn’t playing right field.

[old nurse]

 

Martinez signed a $110 million contract.  Aybar, Sanchez, Pineda, Lynn Morrison combined for around $30 million.  I can't tell if you are just trolling or not, but obviously no one would look at only 1 year of a 5 year contract when discussing what Martinez got

Martinez can opt out of his contract at any off season he chooses.  As a top 5 batter, and a Twin, short of participating in a WS parade  I considered that a likely happening. If it did not happen, he merely replaces the Joe Mauer contract as an object of scorn

 

[Jerr]

 

This specific trade, or ever trading legit prospects for stars? Because this reads like the realmuto thread....

yes.

 

That's my Chief voice speaking hehehe.

Yes the heading re: Verlander .

[Vanimal46]

Because the rental rate is absurd? We will have the ability to buy anything we want this offseason. If we don’t....that’s the time to light torches. This criticism has about as much validity as a thread about why Batman isn’t playing right field.

Depends on what you feel is absurd. I would gladly trade Gordon, Gonsalves, and another player if we got commitment of a long term contract from Machado.

 

You don't think there's any validity to getting Machado in this organization before anyone else has a chance to speak with him about their org goals and vision?

 

If they acquired him in July they have 2+ months to get his buy in on the organization's culture, coaching staff, and players on the team.

[alarp33]

 

Depends on what you feel is absurd. I would gladly trade Gordon, Gonsalves, and another player if we got commitment of a long term contract from Machado.

You don't think there's any validity to getting Machado in this organization before anyone else has a chance to speak with him about their org goals and vision?

If they acquired him in July they have 2+ months to get his buy in on the organization's culture, coaching staff, and players on the team.

 

Come on.  You think Manny Machado is going to re-sign with this Twins in your scenario because he got to be around their culture? 

 

*Spoiler Alert*: Manny Machado is going to sign this off-season with who pays him the most money

[Vanimal46]

Come on. You think Manny Machado is going to re-sign with this Twins in your scenario because he got to be around their culture?

 

*Spoiler Alert*: Manny Machado is going to sign this off-season with who pays him the most money

I'd give that scenario better odds than being 1 of 20 teams contacting him this winter trying to set up a meeting.

[TheLeviathan]

Depends on what you feel is absurd. I would gladly trade Gordon, Gonsalves, and another player if we got commitment of a long term contract from Machado.

You don't think there's any validity to getting Machado in this organization before anyone else has a chance to speak with him about their org goals and vision?

If they acquired him in July they have 2+ months to get his buy in on the organization's culture, coaching staff, and players on the team.

I think anything short of Lewis and Kirilloff probably gets you laughed off the phone. Go back and look at what they were discussing with the ChiSox this offseason.

 

I’d rather get him to buy in this offseason. By July of this year, even with him, it could be a very defeated organization.

[alarp33]

 

I'd give that scenario better odds than being 1 of 20 teams contacting him this winter trying to set up a meeting.

 

It's not.  And there's no proof of a high end free agent ever taking less money cuz he loved playing for a losing team down the stretch.  JD Martinez loved the AZ culture

 

https://www.mlb.com/dbacks/news/jd-martinez-cherishes-time-with-d-backs/c-258115238

[Vanimal46]

I think anything short of Lewis and Kirilloff probably gets you laughed off the phone. Go back and look at what they were discussing with the ChiSox this offseason.

 

I’d rather get him to buy in this offseason. By July of this year, even with him, it could be a very defeated organization.

1 year of control vs. 2 months of control... The price has decreased slightly. And there are creative ways to get around it such as taking on Darren O'Day's $9 MM salary next season.

 

Do I realistically think it could happen? Absolutely not. But I do think bringing him here early gives them better odds of signing him over. He's going to be bombarded by 20+ teams this winter trying to schedule time with him and his agent.

[TheLeviathan]

1 year of control vs. 2 months of control... The price has decreased slightly. And there are creative ways to get around it such as taking on Darren O'Day's $9 MM salary next season.

Do I realistically think it could happen? Absolutely not.

It seems odd to admit it isn't a possibility and still complain. Yes, the price may have come down, but this isn't a video game.

 

In 5 months the only thing stopping us from Machado is zeroes on a check. Right now sanity and living in the real world are.

[MangLitch]

I love this thread.... 

 

The thought that this team should give up top prospects for Machado is absolutely absurd. 

 

We are all but out of the Wild Card race at 12.5 games back and Cleveland is figuring their stuff out and looking really nice. 

 

You would give up a good core of prospects for 2 months of Machado and believe that will rocket us up the standings? Odds are against you at this point. 

 

Face it, we had a nice year last year that may have been boosted by some luck. We aren't that far along from out worst place finish and may have gotten ahead of ourselves this year in believing this team could turn it all around in one+ year(s). 

 

Trust the process here. I still believe we are a year or so away from having these discussions and all this trade does is give away the future for 2 months.

 

3% chance he signs here. 

[Vanimal46]

It seems odd to admit it isn't a possibility and still complain. Yes, the price may have come down, but this isn't a video game.

 

In 5 months the only thing stopping us from Machado is zeroes on a check. Right now sanity and living in the real world are.

This isn't meant to complain... I'm just talking about a strategy with Machado to increase the odds of him signing here from 3% as the poster before me said to a higher number.

[TheLeviathan]

This isn't meant to complain... I'm just talking about a strategy with Machado to increase the odds of him signing here from 3% as the poster before me said to a higher number.

Since it will cost Royce Lewis and more...dont you want a pretty sizable percentage? Is that reasonable to expect?

 

I'd rather just talk with cash in November.