Olney: Twins are buyers, but second-tier buyers

[Twodogs]

I'd still prefer they try to move legitimately valuable prospects for young, controllable pitching. Gotta give up value to get value.

I agree, but after the Quintana deal it seems as though the price for these types of pitchers is going to be too high, or actually more that what the Twins have to offer.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

I'm not sure what W-L record or position in the standings becomes acceptable for people before "trying to win" becomes a good goal. Only one poster that I recall has ever actually set a benchmark and then stuck to that bench mark when it rolled around.

 

I'm not sure people realize that the Twins could be 10 games over .500 a year from now, or two years from now, and still be eight games back in the standings and clawing for a wild card anyway.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

 

I am sure that this rotation petrifies the Indians, Red Sox and Astros that the Twins will have to beat in the post-season.

How about:

 

Santana

best matchup

Berrios

Santana

best matchup 

Berrios

Santana

[Twodogs]

Archer plays for the Rays, and the Rays are three games behind Boston.

Yes, I don't know why his name keeps being brought up, but it does?

[Vanimal46]

 

How about:

 

Santana

best matchup

Berrios

Santana

best matchup 

Berrios

Santana

 

Pretty much exactly what Cleveland did last year. Look at how far they went with that strategy. 

[old nurse]

 

I'm not sure what W-L record or position in the standings becomes acceptable for people before "trying to win" becomes a good goal. Only one poster that I recall has ever actually set a benchmark and then stuck to that bench mark when it rolled around.

 

I'm not sure people realize that the Twins could be 10 games over .500 a year from now, or two years from now, and still be eight games back in the standings and clawing for a wild card anyway.

With half of KC entering free agency, most of the White Sox traded, most of Detroit on Gerotol, the Twins are a bad year  for the Indians away from being able to once again limp to a title.

[Guest]

The Twins currently have a forecasted 12% chance to make the playoffs. With all the holes on the team, it's hard to see how any one player, including Mike Trout, could even double those odds. Further, the Twins simply don't have the prospects to match what the Cubs traded for Quintana. It doesn't make sense, this year, to tear up the farm system for a long shot chance to make the playoffs and an even longer shot to win.

 

On the other hand, the players Olney mentions are all for this year, where they won't make nearly the difference that Quintana would have made, and do little to nothing for next year. Therefore, the amount to pay would be small. Their current teams are probably hoping for more than salary relief. However, if someone like the Reds will take Phil Hughes and his salary (and upside, of course) in exchange for Feldman, perhaps Falvine will throw in a prospect.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Pretty much exactly what Cleveland did last year. Look at how far they went with that strategy. 

 

with a totally similar bullpen!

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

 

With half of KC entering free agency, most of the White Sox traded, most of Detroit on Gerotol, the Twins are a bad year  for the Indians away from being able to once again limp to a title.

Well, Cleveland is having a bad year this year.

[Vanimal46]

 

with a totally similar bullpen!

 

Taylor Rogers baby! The new Andrew Miller. 

[Guest]

Thanks for bringing up Pavano. He was 9-8 in 2009 with the Indians but with an ERA over 5 when the Twins dealt Yohan Pino for him. Pavano replaced an injured Glen Perkins in the Twins rotation, going 5-4 and also starting game 3 in the ALDS. (Perkins was demoted to AAA instead of being sent on a rehab assignment - which Perkins claimed was done to keep him from qualifying as a Super 2 for arbitration.) Pavano's real impact came the next season when he won 17 games for Minnesota and pitched 7 complete games. The rest of the staff was solid, too, as Blackburn, Baker, Slowey, and Liriano all made 28 or more starts and all won 10 or more games. (Duensing also won 10 in mixed duty)

Actually, Pavano pitched well after the trade, but his W-L didn't reflect that, which shows just how hard it is for one non-superstar to make a big impact in a mid-season trade.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

 

with a totally similar bullpen!

My snark meter is registering!

 

Seriously though, Cleveland 2016 was and is better than the Twins 2016, 2017, or possible 2018 version. Andrew Miller was traded for a package of decent prospects last summer, and it paid off. Miller is showing some fatigue this summer and some of Cleveland's other pitchers are having down years. 

[Mike Sixel]

 

Taylor Rogers baby! The new Andrew Miller. 

 

Remember when people disagreed with us that Rogers should be up and in the bullpen, because he MIGHT be a starter some day? good times, just last year.....

[drjim]

FWIW, I just caught the Twins Insider podcast and Rob Antony said that there is a chance Romero and Gonsalves could make it to the majors by the end of this year - spoke highly of Gonsalves strike throwing and did mention some experience concerns with Romero. Maybe the front office is closer to giving them a shot than I would have guessed.

[wavedog]

 

This is a point of debate, but I think the Twins would have been happy to trade their prospects. Alas the Ms did not think quite as highly.

Taking a look back Seattle did not get too much contribution from the highly rated prospects from Texas.  Justin Smoak and Blake Bleaven were the 2 top prospects I believe and they contributed a small positive WAR.   While Smoak did not achieve much success with Seattle he has had a terrific 1st half with Toronto this year.   Seattle also threw in another pitcher Mark Lowe who gave up the game-winning homer for Texas in Game#6 of the 2011 World Series.  Well, that is enough coverage of that trade in a Twins thread - not sure who the Twins were rumored to have offered for Lee. 

[Twodogs]

FWIW, I just caught the Twins Insider podcast and Rob Antony said that there is a chance Romero and Gonsalves could make it to the majors by the end of this year - spoke highly of Gonsalves strike throwing and did mention some experience concerns with Romero. Maybe the front office is closer to giving them a shot than I would have guessed.

I heard a similar statement on the radio this weekend, but they also said those guys could get a shot at the end of the year most likely if the Twins were out of it.

[Thrylos]

 

It petrifies me, but adding Feldman to the rotation isn't going to change that. The only pitcher that would make a difference with how the Red Sox, or the Astros, would feel about the Twins rotation would probably be Gray or Archer. As far as that goes then the Twins would really have to give up a lot, a la Quintana. So what I was saying is that they might as well go with what they got and see how far they get. Because a guy like Feldman can be had via free agency this off season. We already have a rotation full of Feldmans.

 

I get it, but that would be yet another half-rear end season.  They know they will not be competitive in the post season as is.  I hope that they sell Santana for one young controllable MLB-ready pitcher, plus a young controllable late inning pen piece.   Something like Jordan Montgomery or Caleb Smith and Chad Green to the Yankees.  Then deal Dozier for another Montgomery or Smith type (Milwaukee is my favorite designation for him for someone like Brandon Woodruff) and the:

 

Santana
Berrios
Mejia
Colon
Gee/Gibson

 

becomes

Berrios

Woodruff

Montgomery
Mejia

Gibson/Romero.

 

I find the latter more palatable.   Santana had a 6.03 ERA in June.  Improved in 2 games in July, but still I don't trust him...

[akmanak]

So is Colon considered second tier? Twins aren't going to do anything but spend as little as possible for players like this. Dont hold your breath.

[Thrylos]

 

Just ask Dick Bremer who the Twins should trade for. He told Torii Hunter that to tell Levine or Falvey to trade for Sonny Gray or Gerrit cole. Then he said to offer them the A's a bag of "Skittles" for Gray because that is what many Twins fans propose on Twitter. Sounds like something Terry Ryan or Dave St Peter would have said to Bremer and he was just repeating it to be snarky. That or because he thought he was being funny putting down Twins fans. 

 

 

 

Yeah.  That was horrible but quintessential Dick.   He forgets who is paying his salary and bites the hand that feeds him.   Time to go.

[Kwak]

 

Yeah.  That was horrible but quintessential Dick.   He forgets who is paying his salary and bites the hand that feeds him.   Time to go.

Dick bite the hand that feeds him?  I strongly disagree.  I am convinced he was reading from a script given to him with the blessing from TPTB.

[Riverbrian]

Looking at the menu. 

 

David Phelps looks good.

 

However it says Market Price so the unknown cost makes me nervous. 

 

I would love to acquire Phelps and I would consider putting him in the rotation. 

[Thrylos]

 

Dick bite the hand that feeds him?  I strongly disagree.  I am convinced he was reading from a script given to him with the blessing from TPTB.

 

The fans are paying Dick's and everyone associated with the Twins' salaries.  Period.  It is tacky to blame the fans, esp. after the product they have been putting on the field the last 25 seasons.

 

He read it.  He could refused to do so.  Making fun of the fans will not make him a fan favorite...

[drjim]

Considering what many people on this board think are acceptable offers for these controllable starters, Dick has a point.

[Riverbrian]

 

Dick bite the hand that feeds him?  I strongly disagree.  I am convinced he was reading from a script given to him with the blessing from TPTB.

 

I heard it.

 

It was way too clumsy to be scripted. If it was written... It was poorly done. 

 

Dick has read a liner card or two in his life. He'll sound pretty practiced at the craft when he does. 

 

It sounded exactly like a guy who was filling time, expanding on a subject and talked himself into a corner by expressing his opinion. 

 

I forgive him. 

 

 

 

 

[David HK]

 

Who was the last pitcher the Twins traded for in mid-season who had a positive impact? It wasn't Hector Santiago last year. It wasn't Tommy Milone in 2014. Has there ever been one? I can't recall.

Matt Capps.

 

 

 

 

Heh........(cue sad trombone)

[Twodogs]

The fans are paying Dick's and everyone associated with the Twins' salaries.  Period.  It is tacky to blame the fans, esp. after the product they have been putting on the field the last 25 seasons.

 

He read it.  He could refused to do so.  Making fun of the fans will not make him a fan favorite...

I'll be the first to say that some of the things proposed on these boards are way off base from reality, me included at times, however to say some tacky thing about what the fans are saying is not good for business. I wonder what they will say when no one is talking about them anymore?? You know when the fans are talking it means they are watching, Dick better hope the fans don't stop talking; it wasn't all that many years ago that MLB tried to eliminate the Twins franchise.

[darin617]

 

Cahill and Hand for a few of the over 22 prospects and Gibson. Gibson would have a chance in San Diego for a few good starts .The Padres could flip him for another prospect. Gibson pitching well is San Diego would generate a few angst filled threads

Those 2 pitchers should bring in a very nice haul of San Diego pulls the trigger quickly.

[olivia11]

I have a hard time buying into the idea that any trade the Twins would make to add would put them in a position to win a playoff series. Getting to the playoffs shouldn't be the goal.  The goal should be getting to the playoffs and making a run.  

 

I have to think that trading away some assets now (Santana, Kintzler, Dozier) and getting another group of prospects to add to this current mix gives the Twins a better shot of accomplishing that goal in the next couple years.

[Kwak]

 

The fans are paying Dick's and everyone associated with the Twins' salaries.  Period.  It is tacky to blame the fans, esp. after the product they have been putting on the field the last 25 seasons.

 

He read it.  He could refused to do so.  Making fun of the fans will not make him a fan favorite...

 

 

I'll be the first to say that some of the things proposed on these boards are way off base from reality, me included at times, however to say some tacky thing about what the fans are saying is not good for business. I wonder what they will say when no one is talking about them anymore?? You know when the fans are talking it means they are watching, Dick better hope the fans don't stop talking; it wasn't all that many years ago that MLB tried to eliminate the Twins franchise.

If Dick criticizes management, he'll find out in that NY minute whose name is actually signed on his paycheck--and it isn't John Q. Public!

[Twodogs]

If Dick criticizes management, he'll find out in that NY minute whose name is actually signed on his paycheck--and it isn't John Q. Public!

Well when John Q Public quit going to the games back in the late 90's; MLB just about cancelled all Twins checks, permanently. I'm just saying that the voice of the Twins shouldn't be denigrating the people who follow the club. It would be like the manager of a McDonalds telling all of his customers that they are fat. He might be right, and McDonalds (MLB) isn't going to suffer too bad, but that one location might not get any customers anymore.

 

Plus it also puts a bad spin on the ownership and the GMs in a different light. It's like those fans that said D.A.R.Y.L when Strawberry would come to bat, and if he turned around and flipped them off, guess what, at that point all of the fans know that he is now listening and they are now going to really go after him. A professional blocks that crap out and doesn't let the fans get to him. It actually tells me that all of those people are reading these stupid trade ideas that all off the fans are proposing, I'd think as professionals that they wouldn't even pay attention to this crap; that they'd be talking to their scouts and calling up other GMs, owners, etc.... Why are they even looking at this? This is for fans to banter, and wish for stuff, and have a place to criticize those that play baseball a million times better than we do, but nonetheless we criticize anyway so as to vent about our favorite team. But if we can't do that here, then maybe, especially a lot of younger people, who as a generation, might not pledge their allegiance so easily anymore will gravitate towards a better organization where they are allowed to do this type of stuff. I mean the fans of the Yankees and Red Sox have been this way for, well, since the beginning of time as far as I can remember. So my point is, I know the Polads write the checks, but it lacked professionalism to talk about stuff that they really shouldn't even be paying attention to. They should be just blocking this stuff out and let the fans be fans.

 

 

Hey maybe we all should propose really crazy trades now, just to piss them off.

 

I think maybe the Twins could pry Kershaw away from the Dodgers with a package of Polanco, Gibson and maybe one of their AA starters, like Jorge, because Gonsalves should definitely be off the table.