Outside Starting Pitching Help Primer

[drjim]

If SF continues to tank, Samardzia (sp) might be a target.

We even have a near Addison Russell equivalent.

[Darius]

A lot of the guys you mentioned are free agents at the end of the year, and/or not guys who will help us much anyway. I don't want to send a Gordon, for example, for a rental that'll do nothing for us.

 

I still think Duffey should've been given a rotation spot, and Hughes should've been eased back slowly out of the 'pen. It didn't take The Hubble Telescope to see Hughes shouldn't be in the mix.

 

I'm still not ready to give up on Gibson. His last start was really fluky, and was a little better than the stat line looked. Still too many mistakes, but rolling a 4th/5th starter out with his stuff could workout very nicely. Hopefully he stint in the minors was a shock to his system, and will get him straightened out. I also think Mejia has the stuff to be a decent back-end guy, and him being a lefty helps.

 

Adding a guy like Ian Kennedy, and his 5.2 FIP this year, and 4.2 career (for reference, Kyle Gibson's career FIP is 4.2) isn't helping anybody get anywhere. Getting more bad pitchers on bad contracts is exactly the opposite of what the youngest team in baseball should be doing. We don't need to add another boat anchor, like Hughes, to this rotation that they'll be compelled to run out there year after year because he's making 10 mil per year.

[Vanimal46]

 

If SF continues to tank, Samardzia (sp) might be a target.

 

If they continue to tank, I'd ask about any of their starters not named Bumgarner.... 

Cueto, Shark, Cain, Moore.... Any would work. 

[Willihammer]

Samardzija would be a great addition.

[USAFChief]

 

Samardzija would be a great addition.

Except for trying to spell it whenever I want to post about him.

 

 

[amjgt]

 

Except for trying to spell it whenever I want to post about him.

 

I'd just go with Samzilla

 

[drivlikejehu]

 

If they continue to tank, I'd ask about any of their starters not named Bumgarner.... 

Cueto, Shark, Cain, Moore.... Any would work. 

 

Cain and Moore are terrible. Cain is basically Phil Hughes and Moore is a poor man's Hector Santiago, and I think Santiago is a 5th starter.

 

Cueto is an interesting case because of the opt-out. Interesting in theory but I just don't know what that looks like in practice.

[drjim]

Cain and Moore are terrible. Cain is basically Phil Hughes and Moore is a poor man's Hector Santiago, and I think Santiago is a 5th starter.

 

Cueto is an interesting case because of the opt-out. Interesting in theory but I just don't know what that looks like in practice.

Barring significant injury, Cueto would opt out.

 

And would probably cost around Mejia, Gonsalves and another piece.

[Brandon]

I would be willing to give up a lot more for pitchers with multiple years of control then for a rental. For Cole i would give up Gonsalves, Mejia, Gordon, and another prospect. That would give us an ace during this run we are currently on. We have several good prospects coming in the draft. We do have another internal starter option. As Sledgers looks about ready for a call up from AAA. As far as getting a rental depends on Hughes comming back, or Gibson turning it around, or Sledgers if he can come up. And I imagine they will want a month or 2 to sort through that before making a trade. I am also interested in trading for Neshek as im sure he is available from the Phils.

[Doomtints]

#5 pitchers are irrelevant. Throw a warm body out there and if you find one who can keep his ERA under 5, marry him.

 

Don't waste any resources trading with the goal of filling the #5 spot. Stuff like that was what got Bill Smith canned.

[DaveW]

And yet the twins have issues finding a 5th starter this year with an era under 8.00

[Brock Beauchamp]

And yet the twins have issues finding a 5th starter this year with an era under 8.00

Yeah. When I say "fifth starter", I really mean "guy who pitches fifth in the order but performs acceptably by MLB standards".

 

Not handing away 20% of your games and giving your team a fighting shot to win those games with a league average guy will net several wins over the course of a season.

[jorgenswest]

Should the Twins be looking for immediate help in the form of a veteran on a minor league deal with another club? Sometimes these guys have opt outs in their contract.

 

A quick look at strike out rates singles out Justin Masterson. Masterson signed a minor league deal with the Dodgers at the end of spring training. They seem flush with starting pitching at the major league level. His strikeout rate of 24% suggests he is missing AAA bats. He would not cost a significant prospect. Perhaps a flyer on a guy like Masterson might be worth a shot through the All Star break. I wonder if he has an opt out.

[ashbury]

A quick look at strike out rates singles out Justin Masterson. Masterson signed a minor league deal with the Dodgers at the end of spring training. They seem flush with starting pitching at the major league level. His strikeout rate of 24% suggests he is missing AAA bats. He would not cost a significant prospect. Perhaps a flyer on a guy like Masterson might be worth a shot through the All Star break. I wonder if he has an opt out.

Good catch. Masterson hasn't been good since 2013, but this year an ERA under 3 at Oklahoma City suggests he's back to some degree of competence. If the Dodgers have control over him for the full season, I wonder how many other teams are offering a single-A prospect or two for him.

[old nurse]

 

At some point if you ever want to win a title you gotta do it

Do you think the Cubs regret giving up a ton for Chapman?

Most of the guys listed above wouldn't cost any of the elite prospects in the Twins system.

Do you think Oakland regrets giving up a ton for Hammels and Lester?  Going for a win is not trading for Hellickson.  Going for a win is trading for a top of the rotation starter.  To get a top starter as a rental it would likely cost the best minor league starter, the third best starter and a reliever with potential.  Great to trade if you have an excess of prospects. Not so good when you do not have much of a pitching staff to begin with and are looking at a crater of needs  for starting pitching within 2 years and no prospects to fill it.

[old nurse]

 

Should the Twins be looking for immediate help in the form of a veteran on a minor league deal with another club? Sometimes these guys have opt outs in their contract.

A quick look at strike out rates singles out Justin Masterson. Masterson signed a minor league deal with the Dodgers at the end of spring training. They seem flush with starting pitching at the major league level. His strikeout rate of 24% suggests he is missing AAA bats. He would not cost a significant prospect. Perhaps a flyer on a guy like Masterson might be worth a shot through the All Star break. I wonder if he has an opt out.

Masterson had 2 good years and a lot of back of rotation years.  If they were going to give up lottery tickets for pitching I would rather see them grab Oaks than Masterson.

[mikelink45]

Not yet.  We have a long way to go to prove we are worthy of trading prospects and locking in another vet on a too expensive contract.  I would rather that they push one of the young players - rotate a few in and out and see if anything clicks.  The number five slot is a loss now and will be for a while.  Actually the number three slot is the loss since Santiago is a 4/5 and right not Mejia is too.  But this surprising team is not getting ready for a push in the playoffs so I am very cautious about what another starter might cost.  I have also seen enough of the starter trades over the years to see that very few actually make a big difference - often times they hurt the team that acquires them.  

 

Here is a good reminder of how things can go wrong https://www.si.com/mlb/2016/07/29/midseason-trades-baseball-history-jeff-bagwell-john-smoltz

 

And for more buyer beware - https://www.axs.com/news/buyers-beware-mlb-midseason-trades-don-t-always-work-as-oakland-ups-th-13944