Kennys Vargas

[Mike Sixel]

 

I was personally thinking more like 5 of 7 games. But yeah, that is what I want to see. Do I think that will happen? Not with Paul Molitor managing.

 

It was a joke....someone said "hit the pine", given that when he is AB, he just stands there for 2/3 of the AB.....n/m, if you have to explain a joke, it isn't funny....

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Duffey? Prob not, because Duffey is young and a prospect still. But anyone that can be a 7th inning guy would be a massive upgrade for this pen.

Would you trade Grossman for another team's Pressly?

[drjim]

 

Would you trade Grossman for another team's Pressly?

 

Last year's Pressly I would.

[DaveW]

 

Would you trade Grossman for another team's Pressly?

No, I said solid to good RP.

[Blackjack]

 

Anyone can get hot for a couple weeks.


You say starting to produce, I say sample size. Mauer is a low to mid .700 OPS player the last 3 years. That is simply what he is now. That isn't good enough for a middle of the order hitter or a first baseman. Do I know FOR SURE that Vargas is better than that? Of course not. But I think it is pretty sure that Mauer will be a low to mid .700 OPS player and I think the Twins need to find out if Vargss is better than that.

I agree with you that they need to play Vargas to see what they have but he has to hold up his end also, if he goes into a prolonged slump, AAA is always a good option.  It doesn't hurt players to get sent down to retool and rejuvenate and re-motivate. The odd man out is Park. If he gets hot, there is no place for him -- unless Vargas fades.

 

As far as Mauer goes, hes not going anywhere until the end of 2018, unless he really fades, and at this point it doesn't look like he will, at least not this year.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Over his last 10 starts Mauer has a .900 OPS, has 4 doubles etc H

He is clearly starting to produce.

 

yeah, and he's under contract for another year, so in all reality he's not going anywhere.  Agreed, and for most of last season he was over .800 on his OPS. I don't think his career is toast, but there's wisdom in adjusting how he is used.

 

My biggest issue with Mauer right now is his flexibility.  We have some 1B/DH options (Vargas/Park/Palka) but Mauer clogs the spot.  He has the arm to play 3rd and doesn't, and I have to think he's capable of being a competent corner OF.  For a high OBP guy, that keeps him at the top of the order and allows us to give a number of guys the occasional day off, making him a better option than a guy like Santana and allowing the team to have another bat first guy floating around.  

 

Trading Grossman makes a ton of sense if Mauer can pick up that slack.  You then have a glove first defender in Adrianza and a competent rover in Mauer who is still a very tough out along with an extra bat.  that either starts or is on the bench in a "I need a strong pinch hit bat" in a late situation.

[Shaitan]

Vargas always seems to do well his first time around the league, then goes cold. It will be interesting to see if he makes adjustments this time.

[yarnivek1972]

The dips and peaks with Mauer are exactly why he needs to sit more. He's pretty good well rested. But he can't maintain a good groove very long. Age eventually wins against everyone. Some sooner than others. Not really surprising that is affecting a guy his size who was squatting down a couple hundred times a game for ten years. I don't see Mauer in the outfield. I don't think he has the legs.

 

Mauer can be effective in a part time role. I just don't think he can be in a full time role.

 

The problem is that even at his best, he provides below average production for a first baseman/DH. And likely production that is below the level of what Vargas and Grossman can.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

No, I said solid to good RP.

So... controllable, solid-to-good RP, better than Pressly?  For Grossman?

 

Can you name any examples around the league?  I'm not seeing teams that would have a need for Grossman, and such a quality RP asset to spare.  Even in the few cases where there could be a production upgrade -- Toronto's corner outfield, for example -- there are other factors at play, like contracts and the overall state of the team.  (Toronto may not be ready to bench Bautista, and the whole team has struggled enough that adding Grossman as a reinforcement probably isn't on their radar right now. Especially not with Morales under contract and one of their most effective hitters this season at DH too.)

 

Bullpen expectations are high in modern MLB too.  If a team has a controllable arm that's better than Pressly, I suspect they expect to get a lot out of it, and won't so easily surrender it in trade.

[DaveW]

yeah, and he's under contract for another year, so in all reality he's not going anywhere. Agreed, and for most of last season he was over .800 on his OPS. I don't think his career is toast, but there's wisdom in adjusting how he is used.

 

My biggest issue with Mauer right now is his flexibility. We have some 1B/DH options (Vargas/Park/Palka) but Mauer clogs the spot. He has the arm to play 3rd and doesn't, and I have to think he's capable of being a competent corner OF. For a high OBP guy, that keeps him at the top of the order and allows us to give a number of guys the occasional day off, making him a better option than a guy like Santana and allowing the team to have another bat first guy floating around.

 

Trading Grossman makes a ton of sense if Mauer can pick up that slack. You then have a glove first defender in Adrianza and a competent rover in Mauer who is still a very tough out along with an extra bat. that either starts or is on the bench in a "I need a strong pinch hit bat" in a late situation.

Mauer is very very strong defensively at 1st base. I think that is very important with an INF featuring Sano and Polanco.

 

I get that 1st base is the easiest position and all of that, but Mauer is one of the best ones in baseball.

 

I don't think moving him to the OF us a solution.

 

I'm also not saying Mauer needs to ply every game, but he should be starting in the majority of them.

[kab21]

It isn't that hard to find Grossman playing time. 

 

He sits 2x/wk

Kepler/Rosario/Buxton alternate sitting 1-2x/wk (like 1 game every other week for each player)

Vargas sits 1x/wk

Mauer sits 1-2x/wk

 

Having a competent hitter on the bench is a really nice benefit for a team. There are other ways to acquire solid but not great RP'ers imo.

[yarnivek1972]

 

It isn't that hard to find Grossman playing time. 

 

He sits 2x/wk

Kepler/Rosario/Buxton alternate sitting 1-2x/wk (like 1 game every other week for each player)

Vargas sits 1x/wk

Mauer sits 1-2x/wk

 

Having a competent hitter on the bench is a really nice benefit for a team. There are other ways to acquire solid but not great RP'ers imo.

 

 

Not sure why you want Grossman sitting more than Mauer.  Grossman was better last year, he's better so far this year.

 

You are also not considering that Sano occasionally plays first or DH.  He probably won't get many days truly off.  DH might be as close as he gets. If he shows signs of fatigue, you might give him a blow, but I honestly think that's a once a month thing.  Really, IMO same with Vargas.  1 day off a week may not sound like much, but that caps him at about 135 games.  Should be more like 145 IMO.  It obviously won't be this year because he didn't start the year at the MLB level.  If you give Grossman two days a week, that projects him to 110 games.  The guy is the third or fourth best hitter on the team right now.  I don't see how sitting him that often helps.

 

Mauer started 130 games last year between first and DH and that was too many.  To keep him fresh and productive, I honestly believe he should be starting no more than 90-100.

 

Edit: when I say "games" above, I mean starts.

[Dr. Evil]

I would like to see Kennys playing just about every day. I feel that he is a budding star and will be our 1B well in to the future. He is in need of some dreadlocks like Sano to increase his swagger.

 

Also, somebody mentioned steak earlier in this thread. I like steak. I wish I had one right now.

[yarnivek1972]

 

If we can get that for Grossman, it's an easy call. Trade away and bring up ...maybe Granite to be the 4th OF?  Palka? Anyway, kind of a moot point because it just doesn't seem likely Grossman is wirth an MLB RP as bad as many bullpens are these days. 

 

 

Agree.  If the Twins were able to receive a capable MLB reliever for Grossman, that move would have already been made.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Agree.  If the Twins were able to receive a capable MLB reliever for Grossman, that move would have already been made.

 

Based on what? You don't know that at all. That's a total guess.

[yarnivek1972]

 

Based on what? You don't know that at all. That's a total guess.

 

 

Saying that the Twins CAN get a MLB reliever for Grossman isn't a total guess?

 

Clearly the Twins need pitchers more than they need a guy like Grossman, even as good as he has been this year and last.  Unless you feel Falvey is incompetent, why else wouldn't he make that deal if it were out there?

[Mike Sixel]

 

Saying that the Twins CAN get a MLB reliever for Grossman isn't a total guess?

 

Clearly the Twins need pitchers more than they need a guy like Grossman, even as good as he has been this year and last.  Unless you feel Falvey is incompetent, why else wouldn't he make that deal if it were out there?

 

Maybe they like Grossman as the 4th OF? Maybe they want to make sure if Buxton fails, they have an option? Maybe they love the RP in the minors, but want them to have more seasoning? Lots of other reasons I could type....

 

I literally have no idea what Falvey or Levine think. Neither do you.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Here is a DH list at Fangraphs:

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=60&type=1&season=2017&month=44&season1=2017&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=17,d

 

The only AL team not represented is our division mate White Sox.  A trade partner is not evident.

 

Expanding it to corner OF, there still aren't many good fits.

 

Grossman has value, but I don't think it's enough value or a compelling enough fit to meet the asking price of a "controllable, solid-to-good RP" in May.

[rghrbek]

Just to add to the Grossman tradability for a RP better than Pressley (not my words).  Has anyone forgotten, just how awful he was as an outfielder?  He saw lots of playing time in left field last year, and there were many many comparisons to Willingham and D Young on these threads.  Yeeesh....

 

My meaning, similar to Spycake, is in May, there is no market for R. Grossman for an average plus RP in MLB.

 

He's getting a bit of the squeeze now that Kennys in playing, which I am fine with, but I also think that Joe could play a little less, so we can figure out what we have in Kennys, and Grossman.

[Dr. Evil]

As the team is currently constructed, I sort of like keeping Grossman around. I think he fits in pretty well with what we have and gives us a bit of flexibility. I don't think I would be looking to trade him. But, that's just me.

[amjgt]

 

Vargas always seems to do well his first time around the league, then goes cold. It will be interesting to see if he makes adjustments this time.

 

Do "times around the league" reset each year?

[Shaitan]

 

Do "times around the league" reset each year?

In a sense, yes. I'm guessing most teams don't pull out their 2015 scouting reports.

[Mike Sixel]

 

In a sense, yes. I'm guessing most teams don't pull out their 2015 scouting reports.

 

They don't? I would. 

[amjgt]

 

As the team is currently constructed, I sort of like keeping Grossman around. I think he fits in pretty well with what we have and gives us a bit of flexibility. I don't think I would be looking to trade him. But, that's just me.

 

Yeah. You know the day after he's traded, once of Mauer, Vargas, Buxton, Rosario, and Kepler will go on the DL.

 

I like having 6 guys for 5 spots for the occasional bumps and bruises, pinch hitting, and platooning.

 

As long as those are split intelligently (I know... that's a big caveat) 

 

Over the course of 15 games...

Buxton sits once

Kepler sits once

Rosario sits twice

Vargas sits 3 times

Mauer and Grossman sit 4 times each.

[amjgt]

 

In a sense, yes. I'm guessing most teams don't pull out their 2015 scouting reports.

 

Of course they do

[Mike Sixel]

I just want Kepler, if he has to sit, to do so against LHP......that seems obvious, but apparently it isn't.

[amjgt]

 

I just want Kepler, if he has to sit, to do so against LHP......that seems obvious, but apparently it isn't.

 

You might be referencing last Thursday, when he sat against a righty with two lefties coming in the next three games.

 

Actually that RHP kills lefties, so in a sense it was the right call. 

[drjim]

 

You might be referencing last Thursday, when he sat against a righty with two lefties coming in the next three games.

 

Actually that RHP kills lefties, so in a sense it was the right call. 

 

Kind of nice they looked at the specific pitcher and not just the handedness.

[Mike Sixel]

Wasn't that SSS, or was it over years? If over years, then I stand corrected, I guess.....

 

Frankly, I want him not sitting, since he's young. I'd prefer they not start platooning 23 yos....

[amjgt]

 

Wasn't that SSS, or was it over years? If over years, then I stand corrected, I guess.....

 

Frankly, I want him not sitting, since he's young. I'd prefer they not start platooning 23 yos....

 

The split held true all of last year as well.

 

I agree that I'd prefer he not really sit at all.