POTUS Donald Trump

[DaveW]

I'm not sending my kid to a school that has serious educational issues, it's not a black and white thing, it's a quality thing. Also my children will only be 50% "white" anyways, so stop with this projection nonsense.

 

The nyc school systems are an absolute mess, so no, I'm not going to send them to it when I can afford to send them to a good school.

 

If we move out of NYC I will re evaluate the schools there, but more than likely? Private school, which I hate, but it's the reality of the situation unless we move to a good district in Connecticut, NJ, or some other state.

 

Believe me, I would love nothing more than to NOt have to spend 35k a year in NYC just to have my kid goto a decent school (private) fix the public schools and it will be different. I'd be much more willing to pay more in taxes for it, that's for sure! Spread the money around as well, 100%, but don't say I'm the problem because I don't want my kids going to some crappy school.

[DaveW]

Again I am all for putting a ton of money into schools, develop better curriculum and pay teachers a significantly better salary to attract talent.

 

That is how you can start to "fix" the problem across the board.

[TheLeviathan]

 

I'm not sending my kid to a school that has serious educational issues, it's not a black and white thing, it's a quality thing. Also my children will only be 50% "white" anyways, so stop with this projection nonsense.

Believe me, I would love nothing more than to NOt have to spend 35k a year in NYC just to have my kid goto a decent school (private) fix the public schools and it will be different. I'd be much more willing to pay more in taxes for it, that's for sure! Spread the money around as well, 100%, but don't say I'm the problem because I don't want my kids going to some crappy school.

 

Except, it becomes a black/white thing when all the well-off white people flee the districts.  And NY is one of the worst about this.  It isn't projection, it's a reality and your statements indicate you are part of that problem.  Or intend to be.  

 

We can't fix what's broken with people fleeing the problem.  And while you are willing to pay more in taxes (I commend you for that), your stated intentions will undermine what you want to have happen for schools.  

 

I'd also suggest that most of what appears to be private schools being "better" is because they have stacked their own deck.  I doubt you'd argue Breck's hockey program dominating some rural school is the result of superior hockey coaching so much as it is recruiting vs. local talent pools.  And yet so many make the same argument about private schools vs. public.

[DaveW]

So wanting your children to have a good education is being part of the problem? Got it.

 

 

Sorry Lev, I'm not putting my kids in some crappy school where they will have little chance to learn, succeed etc. I'd imagine most other people would do the same if they had the choice. Fix the public schools and it would be different.

 

If I do send them to public schools we will definitely be moving to a city that has good public schools. If that's part of the problem, so be it.

[DaveW]

The states, cities, country's etc don't want to fix the problem, I'd argue that they are the problem, not people who want their kids to be in a decent school.

[TheLeviathan]

 

So wanting your children to have a good education is being part of the problem? Got it.

 

In effect - yes.  Without buy-in from all (especially those wealthy enough to abscond) the problem won't be fixed.  It's going to take sacrifice and buy-in from all to help all.

 

You want the cart to operate better before you attach your horse but you're riding the horse off to another cart.  The cart will never get fixed that way.   The states, cities, etc. that you blame see you (with your money) riding your horse off to make a different choice to they enable your choice rather than fix the cart.

 

And that's precisely what has been happening now for decades.  In fact, you're exactly the kind of person Betsy Devos will hold up as a shining beacon of what we should all be doing.  

 

And who suffers?  Teachers and kids who can't abscond.

[DaveW]

There are different levels of sacrifice, asking parents to send their children to BAD schools is too much of a sacrifice.

 

That's a non solution and not realistic at all.

[TheLeviathan]

 

There are different levels of sacrifice, asking parents to send their children to BAD schools is too much of a sacrifice.

That's a non solution and not realistic at all.

 

Those of us that are 75% terrible at our jobs (according to you) sacrifice for the greater good every day......

[DaveW]

Those of us that are 75% terrible at our jobs (according to you) sacrifice for the greater good every day......

I didn't say 75% across the board, I said 75% at the schools I specifically went to in bad public education states. I'd say across the board it's prob closer to 65-75% "good" 25-35% bad (which could be said about most industries, jobs etc etc)

 

Feel free to get off the cross anytime as well. I commend the work teachers do and as I have said numerous times support anything and everything that will help the good ones get paid more (and attract better teachers as a whole) but self martyrdom doesn't help anything.

[Brock Beauchamp]

In effect - yes. Without buy-in from all (especially those wealthy enough to abscond) the problem won't be fixed. It's going to take sacrifice and buy-in from all to help all.

 

You want the cart to operate better before you attach your horse but you're riding the horse off to another cart. The cart will never get fixed that way. The states, cities, etc. that you blame see you (with your money) riding your horse off to make a different choice to they enable your choice rather than fix the cart.

 

And that's precisely what has been happening now for decades. In fact, you're exactly the kind of person Betsy Devos will hold up as a shining beacon of what we should all be doing.

 

And who suffers? Teachers and kids who can't abscond.

And this is why, if I have kids, they will attend public schools.

 

If all the wealthy, invested people leave, what's left?

 

I received a good primary school education in Minnesota and Utah. I received an absolutely ****ty high school education in southern California. I turned out okay. My kids will be attend public schools because if people like me leave, all those kids who can't will get ****ed.

[DaveW]

And this is why, if I have kids, they will attend public schools.

 

If all the wealthy, invested people leave, what's left?

That's great, but keep in mind you live in one of the better public schools systems in the country. It's not an apples to apples comparison when you are talking about terrible public schools vs average to good public schools.

 

If I end up in Washington, Minnesota, or a handful of other states, public school all the way. Nyc? Highly doubtful (unless we happen to be in one of the very very few ok public school districts)

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

That's great, but keep in mind you live in one of the better public schools systems in the country. It's not an apples to apples comparison when you are talking about terrible public schools vs average to good public schools.

If I end up in Washington, Minnesota, or a handful of other states, public school all the way. Nyc? Highly doubtful (unless we happen to be in one of the very very few ok public school districts)

I edited my post. My southern California high school education was... not awesome.

 

Thankfully, I was borderline genius when I arrived in tenth grade because Minnesota and Utah schools prepared me quite well for California... And by prepare, I literally mean "I did not open a book my sophomore year of high school because it was a repeat of what I learned in Utah as a freshman".

 

But education is investment. I'm a firm believer that 75% of education happens at home. Home may not include the actual text and lessons but it's the preparation, reading, and environment that make a child successful, not the school (which can either enhance or drag on that home environment but is not the deciding factor in a child's education).

[DaveW]

Fair points, but even you have to admit that the not as smart Southern California kids were probably hurt quite a bit by attending a school that you called pretty bad.

 

I think the solution still has to come from

The schools themselves. At the end of the day if you ask 100 sets of parents the question of:

 

Your kid can goto school A which is in the bottom 10% nationally or school B which is average nationally, 90+ of them will choose B.

 

I know it's an over simplification but you see what I'm getting at.

 

Also imagine how different your life would have been if you spent all 12 years in that bad South cali district, instead of just 4 years, and 8 "good" prior.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Feel free to get off the cross anytime as well. I commend the work teachers do and as I have said numerous times support anything and everything that will help the good ones get paid more (and attract better teachers as a whole) but self martyrdom doesn't help anything.

 

You know what helps even less?  Bad anecdotes about 3/4 of teachers being terrible.  

 

We need less well-off whites absconding like DeVos celebrates.  Without those sacrifices, nothing will change.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Your kid can goto school A which is in the bottom 10% nationally or school B which is average nationally, 90+ of them will choose B.

 

This false dilemma is exactly the problem.  If more people bought in to improving all schools there wouldn't be such a divide.  And when you choose School B, the poor, black, and brown children suffer most of all.

[DaveW]

You know what helps even less? Bad anecdotes about 3/4 of teachers being terrible.

 

We need less well-off whites absconding like DeVos celebrates. Without those sacrifices, nothing will change.

Never said 3/4ths of all teachers, have said 5x now that it was 3/4ths of the ones I dealt with in bad districts

[DaveW]

Also last thing I'm trying to do is belittle teachers and what they do, was trying to point out that it's a disaster in bad districts and a lot of states.

 

Yes parents share a good chunk of the burden, but the unions, teachers themselves and most of all the states/cities/county deserve blame.

[nicksaviking]

 

I didn't say 75% across the board, I said 75% at the schools I specifically went to in bad public education states. I'd say across the board it's prob closer to 65-75% "good" 25-35% bad (which could be said about most industries, jobs etc etc)

Feel free to get off the cross anytime as well. I commend the work teachers do and as I have said numerous times support anything and everything that will help the good ones get paid more (and attract better teachers as a whole) but self martyrdom doesn't help anything.

 

I might suggest that plenty of kids think their school sucks while they are at it. Teenagers typically are terrible evaluators of everything so looking at your school experience through youth tinted glasses is probably not the best way to determine the situation. 

 

I don't think people truly have perspective on public education until they have kids who are in it.

[Pardon My Dinger]

Oh man. I just realized that in a few short weeks, Trump's going to have to throw out the ceremonial first pitch. That's must watch television. 

[stringer bell]

The Yahoo News headline today is that a couple of Trump's aides, his personal attorney and an obscure Ukrainian legislator put together a "peace plan" for the Ukraine to be pitched to Flynn. Certainly not diplomacy or politics as usual.

[TheLeviathan]

 

I don't think people truly have perspective on public education until they have kids who are in it.

 

Exactly.  

 

Yes parents share a good chunk of the burden, but the unions, teachers themselves and most of all the states/cities/county deserve blame.

 

 

I certainly wouldn't deny that.  I've argued the same thing.  But at the end of the day the single biggest driver for change in education is going to have to be parents.  They are the ones raising their children, paying their taxes, sending their children to school, voting for school board members, voting for their state and national representatives, etc.  The money follows their choices.  

 

As long as well-off white people continue to view "choice" in schools as a good thing we will continue to have a public education problem for those too poor, rural, or not-white to have real choice.  

[TheLeviathan]

 

The Yahoo News headline today is that a couple of Trump's aides, his personal attorney and an obscure Ukrainian legislator put together a "peace plan" for the Ukraine to be pitched to Flynn. Certainly not diplomacy or politics as usual.

 

It was this clown in fact:

 

http://i2.cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/160817192715-02-michael-cohen-situation-room-august-17-2016-exlarge-169.jpg

 

Everyone remember him?

[Craig Arko]

Heartening news in these troubled times.

 

[DaveW]

Can someone fill me in on Sweeden gate?

[D. Hocking]

 

Can someone fill me in on Sweeden gate?

 

During his "I need my ego massaged and have not been worshiped lately" rally he said look at what happened last night in Sweden making it seem like some incident happened.  He later clarified t he was referring to something he saw on Fox News.  Sweden is not happy with him.

 

[DaveW]

Haha that is too perfect.

[Craig Arko]

The day I'll choose to not forget about; February 19th, 1942.

 

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/75th-Anniversary-of-Japanese-Internment-Invokes-Memories-Parallels-414111433.html

[stringer bell]

Not FDR's finest hour.

[Squirrel]

I came to post a little levity on a subject, but the Swedish fish one above was funnier ...

 

http://www.sadanduseless.com/2017/02/tiny-trumps/#hU4f99PxaShkhyir.01

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

He later clarified t he was referring to something he saw on Fox News.

 

It's just one more example of how unfit he is to be president.

 

Literally one phone call away, he has the most comprehensive intelligence agencies in the world, people who can tell him up-to-the-moment information about what's happening in the world.

 

So what's this clown doing instead? Watching Fox News.