POTUS Donald Trump

[Squirrel]

Two days in, and the Trump administration is now using the term " alternative facts".

Are we living in hell yet?

We are living in 1984.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Left-leaning groups are around, and have been around, for awhile.  And there are a lot of them.But they suck at generating any actual movement as a group.  They are more likely to splinter and less likely to actually make a difference.

I've long believed that left-leaning groups need to stop bickering amongst themselves and find common ground instead of differences between their outlooks.

 

It's all too common among lefty groups to holler at each other over the 5% disagreement instead of embracing the 95% agreement they share with one another.

 

In comparison, look at how the right has woven business and religion together into a cohesive unit. And those crazy bastards should be 5% agreement and 95% disagreement on the issues... Yet they're not.

[Squirrel]

 

I've long believed that left-leaning groups need to stop bickering amongst themselves and find common ground instead of differences between their outlooks.

 

It's all too common among lefty groups to holler at each other over the 5% disagreement instead of embracing the 95% agreement they share with one another.

 

In comparison, look at how the right has woven business and religion together into a cohesive unit. And those crazy bastards should be 5% agreement and 95% disagreement on the issues... Yet they're not.

That's way more succinctly put that what I said, but yeah. It's not even just groups, but individuals themselves, too. They have difficulties finding that 95% because it's difficult for them to compromise on the 5%. And then it's not their fault because the party ignored them and their wishes and they just can't possibly lower themselves because their 5% is more important than your 5%.

[TheLeviathan]

 

It's all too common among lefty groups to holler at each other over the 5% disagreement instead of embracing the 95% agreement they share with one another.

 

In comparison, look at how the right has woven business and religion together into a cohesive unit. And those crazy bastards should be 5% agreement and 95% disagreement on the issues... Yet they're not.

 

Yup, weird as it may sound, the right is almost more inclusive as a voting coalition.  The left is far more cannibalistic and stubborn.

 

It sort of relates back to the point kab and I were making upthread.  It's hard to be an independent with either party, but I've often marveled at how quickly liberals turn on their own for even the slightest step out of line.  It's hard to fully buy in when you know how quickly you can be turned on.

[stringer bell]

One factor that I can guarantee is that Trump will continue to provide fuel to sustain the distaste for him. He is so thin-skinned and narcissistic that he will continue to insult people and tell gigantic untruths (alternate facts, lies).

[stringer bell]

 

 

Yup, weird as it may sound, the right is almost more inclusive as a voting coalition.  The left is far more cannibalistic and stubborn.

 

It sort of relates back to the point kab and I were making upthread.  It's hard to be an independent with either party, but I've often marveled at how quickly liberals turn on their own for even the slightest step out of line.  It's hard to fully buy in when you know how quickly you can be turned on.

Republicans have fewer member and bigger fractures in their party, when when it is time to vote, it's "my party right or wrong" and they show up. I think that Citizens United has helped them a lot (it empowered corporations and unions-notice what they have been doing to unions) and the timing worked perfectly for them when they swept everything in 2010 because it gave them control of so much redistricting. 

[diehardtwinsfan]

I don't know.  I know tons of Reps that went Hillary or Gary Johnson.  Lots of them couldn't stomach Trump, and he won anyways... SSS I know, but I don't think he's the great unifier of the Republican Party by any stretch.

[TheLeviathan]

 

I don't know.  I know tons of Reps that went Hillary or Gary Johnson.  Lots of them couldn't stomach Trump, and he won anyways... SSS I know, but I don't think he's the great unifier of the Republican Party by any stretch.

 

Republicans don't always unify over the candidate, they unify over issues.  Or against certain issues/candidates.  So it's not so much what Trump did to unify for him, it's what the left didn't do to unify against him.  

[drjim]

There's a reason politics generally go in cycles. Much easier to unify against something than stay unified when you actually need to govern.

 

Dems seem fractured now, but there will be enough to rally around going forward for the midterms and 2020.

[TheLeviathan]

I would argue the lefts fractures have been an ongoing issue for awhile. Obama's mass appeal masked some serious underlying issues.

 

Trump's win does too IMO.

[drjim]

 

I would argue the lefts fractures have been an ongoing issue for awhile. Obama's mass appeal masked some serious underlying issues.

Trump's win does too IMO.

 

There's fractures all around. I'm not sure it is any more a problem on the left than the right. Obama was certainly a talented politician, but when faced with what is now hitting them in the face, the left will unify much more in the next cycles than they were in 2016. And they will face a right that I suspect will not stay all that together.

[TheLeviathan]

I'm less concerned about four years from now as I am 2. We need that trend stopped.

[Squirrel]

I'm less concerned about four years from now as I am 2. We need that trend stopped.

I'm actually more concerned about next week.

[D. Hocking]

 

I'm less concerned about four years from now as I am 2. We need that trend stopped.

 

Yes - they really need to regain at least one of the houses.  Can you imagine if more democrats would have voted in 2010, and Obama would have had a Democratic congress for awhile longer?  The GOP is much better at showing up for the mid-term elections, and that allowed them to control a lot of the narrative even when there was a Democratic president.  

 

There also needs to be more focus on trying to regain some of the state governments.  People don't pay as much attention to the state and local elections, and a lot of damage is done at the level.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I'm still going with the Administration being fundamentally too inept, combined with general government inertia, for anything all that bad to actually happen.

There are competent, patriotic people at Defense and Homeland Security, so that will also help avoid a catastrophe.

And the Rs won't go along forever.

 

Except they control both houses, so, ya, we'll see yuge deficits, repeal of most of the ACA (leaving millions with no insurance, which we know leads to actual death....), giving away of federal land (which we can never get back), oil spills throughout the national parks as we allow drilling and mining near there.....none of that is stuff Trump has to be involved in at all, really.

[drjim]

Huge deficits for sure, but I don't think much of ACA will get repealed. Some tweaks, the repealing of the funding mechanism (read huge tax cuts for wealthy) and a re-branding. But they aren't going to cut health care for 20 million.

 

The federal land and oil drilling can't change much in 4 years. If the American people don't want it, vote him out and 4 years and put a halt to it.

[drjim]

My biggest concern is still giving Russia a whole lot of concessions for not a whole lot back. Really would hamper a lot of foreign policy going forward and destabilize important international agreements. Less stable relations generally leads to lots of violence.

 

Our country can recover from and reverse bad policies. Violence is violence. 

[Mike Sixel]

 

Huge deficits for sure, but I don't think much of ACA will get repealed. Some tweaks, the repealing of the funding mechanism (read huge tax cuts for wealthy) and a re-branding. But they aren't going to cut health care for 20 million.

 

The federal land and oil drilling can't change much in 4 years. If the American people don't want it, vote him out and 4 years and put a halt to it.

 

They can start "selling" land right now, I'm certain it will happen. The drilling/mining might eventually be stopped, but we'll have given away billions in land by then.

[DaveW]

I would argue the lefts fractures have been an ongoing issue for awhile. Obama's mass appeal masked some serious underlying issues.

 

Trump's win does too IMO.

That's a good point.

 

Also obama definitely goes down as an amazing president, especially after being sandwiched between two puppet presidents.

[kydoty]

And it begins...

 

https://www.texasobserver.org/texas-lawmaker-no-abortion-access-would-force-women-to-be-more-personally-responsible-with-sex/

 

House Bill 948 would ban and criminalize abortions at any stage, direct state officials to ignore “any conflicting federal” laws, and would no longer exempt pregnancies as a result of rape, incest or fetal abnormalities. The bill would remove the exception for abortion in the state’s penal code for criminal homicide, meaning that women and providers could face charges as serious as murder for the procedure.

[drjim]

Republican controlled Houses pass all kinds of teh crazy. Not getting through the Senate.

[Squirrel]

 

And it begins...

 

https://www.texasobserver.org/texas-lawmaker-no-abortion-access-would-force-women-to-be-more-personally-responsible-with-sex/

 

House Bill 948 would ban and criminalize abortions at any stage, direct state officials to ignore “any conflicting federal” laws, and would no longer exempt pregnancies as a result of rape, incest or fetal abnormalities. The bill would remove the exception for abortion in the state’s penal code for criminal homicide, meaning that women and providers could face charges as serious as murder for the procedure.

Yup. Those damn women need to be punished for everything they do.

[PseudoSABR]

 

Republican controlled Houses pass all kinds of teh crazy. Not getting through the Senate.

Nor necessarily survive Supreme Court review.

 

I think the courts will be an unanticipated inconvenience for much of what Trump and congress propose. 

[TheLeviathan]

It'd be nice if we didn't have to have the Court swoop in and save us from utterly preposterous legislation like this. 

 

We've got to fix the midterm election process from the left.  You want to talk about ways the left won't have to compromise so much?  Have some god damn presence at local and state levels.  

[DaveW]

Gerrymandering makes that tough

[Mike Sixel]

Gerrymandering makes that tough

Nearly impossible. The constitution gives all the power to low population areas, which the Gop is doing everything it can to brain wash thru under funding education.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Gerrymandering makes that tough

 

Gerrymandering was achieved, in part, because of it too.  

[D. Hocking]

 

 Gop is doing everything it can to brain wash thru under funding education.

 

Luckily Betsy DeVos is just the person to make education great again.

 

http://www.snopes.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/betsy-devos.jpg

[TheLeviathan]

Betsy DeVos is an absolute menace in the making.  Menace.

[D. Hocking]

 

Yup. Those damn women need to be punished for everything they do.

 

These were people who were in the room when he signed that order.  You know if they could they would find away to abolish the 19th amendment.

 

http://i2.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article9680192.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/JS109914330.jpg