Logan Schafer is up, DanSan to the DL

[nicksaviking]

I don't like the move, but at the same time if they'd instead called up Walker or Palka and either of those guys exclusively rode the pine, we'd also have hysteria here.

 

I'm not predicting that it will happen, but if Molitor gives Schafer next to no playing time, this move probably doesn't need to be analyzed at all.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Really, we're doing this now?

 

C'mon.

It was relevant to the point.  He is defending this move, in part, because he says it is easy to cut the player in a week, when history suggests otherwise.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

It has been put forth many times Sano should be playing more 3b  to get better. If that argument has any validity, it would hold true for Grossman. In the minors and majors Grossman has played in LF less than Sano has played 3b.

Grossman has ~1000 career pro games in the outfield.  LF-specific reps, a couple weeks shy of his 27th birthday, are nowhere near equivalent to 3B reps for Sano, who at age 23 has only ~100 games at 3B the last 3 seasons, and only one half-season of consistent 3B starts in that time span.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Indeed I believe Antony and Ryan have used the minor league postseason excuse in the past for not promoting a player. Seems pretty flimsy to me. Anyone actually have any data?

 

In any case, Chattanooga won the Southern League last season and Walker was on that team. Hey, problem solved already! As of this point the best way forward is to let Walker finish the Rochester season and promote him to MLB immediately afterward (with others) and cut Schafer at that time.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I don't like the move, but at the same time if they'd instead called up Walker or Palka and either of those guys exclusively rode the pine, we'd also have hysteria here.

 

I'm not predicting that it will happen, but if Molitor gives Schafer next to no playing time, this move probably doesn't need to be analyzed at all.

This is fair.  The bigger problem is Grossman playing every day.

 

But, we were stuck with both Grossman and Santana on the 25-man roster -- neither can be optioned.  So we had to use one of them as a starting outfielder, and one as the "4th outfielder".  Once one of them got injured, there was some hope that the team would put the other one into the 4th outfielder, and tab a new starting OF with their newfound roster flexibility.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I'd oh someone less than a dollar if anyone would have taken me up on it. 

 

I wouldn't be at all surprised if Schafer sticks for the rest of the year. I'm just saying I wouldn't. I'm fine with him coming up now, but in my mind, he should be DFAd when the minor league season is done. We'll see. I won't place any sort of bet on that one.

But don't you think that is unlikely?  How often have the Twins added a player this late in the season, only to DFA them a week later?

 

In addition to Albers recently, Doug Bernier 2014 seems a good comp -- added September 2nd, finished the season in Minnesota.

 

If it's likely that Schafer sticks the rest of the season, even just taking up a 40-man spot in a bench role, doesn't that make this decision a little less "easy", and make you a little less "fine" with it given that you prefer to do otherwise?

[Vanimal46]

They're no longer trying to make moves for the future at the moment. Nor are they even rewarding players who deserve a call-up. This is a .260 AAA hitter with no power, or anything of value to provide for an MLB club. 

Embarrassing. 

[Thrylos]

 

Sometimes it's hard to believe some of the posters are longtime Twins fans.

 

[...]

 

Explain to the Rochester / New Britian community that it's in their best interest to surrender all of their prospects to the major league club right in the middle of a playoff push. Never mind that those prospects will probably sit on the bench most of the time while up with the big league club. Playing in meaningless games even if they did play. You can make do with the minor league signings the parent club made in case of emergencies. Good luck. You won't have minor league affiliates if that continues.

 

I suspect that most Twins' fans care more about the Twins and their players than whether or not communities like Rochester (who sell Yankees' and Orioles' merchandise in their gift shops) win or not.

 

And as far as having affiliates, one of these days we will see pretty much everyone following the Braves' and Cards' model.  This way the natives would learn to support the parent team as well.

 

As far as the prospects themselves go, the magic number is 3200.  The daily minimum salary in the majors.  Ask Palka or Walker whether they would mind making that for a couple extra days or whether they think they deserve it more than Schafer.  Someone like Palka who is not on the 40-man roster likely does not make that in a month.

 

$ is a pretty big reward, and teams have to reward their best players with it, when they have the opportunity.  It would had been a great gesture from Antony's part to do it.  He just blew it.

[Thrylos]

 

Why? What difference does it being a week early make? 

 

about $22,500 in someone's pocket.

[twinsnorth49]

about $22,500 in someone's pocket.

Wasn't the point being made really.

[Pardon My Dinger]

He's not the same guy as Jordan Schafer, is he? 

[Halsey Hall]

Shafer will be happy with the extra change.

[scottz]

 

He's not the same guy as Jordan Schafer, is he? 

He is. And he's stuck in a time loop where his first name changes slightly each time he tries to re-invent himself as a pitcher.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Schafer has over 2.5 years of MLB service time already, so he's made something like $1.25 mil in MLB salary to date.

 

Also, his minor league salaries in 2014 and 2015 had to be at least 60% of his previous year's salary, which for all of 2013 was the MLB minimum (~$500k).  So he's probably been making up to $300k (annual equivalent) even while on optional assignment to the minor leagues in 2014-2015.

 

Not sure what his 2016 salary has been in Rochester, but suffice to say, it probably dwarfs Walker's ~$40k and Palka's $1700-$2150 per month.  (All 3 of Schafer, Walker, and Palka were 3rd round draft picks out of college, so they probably got similar bonuses too?)

 

http://www.sportslawblogger.com/baseball/salary-information/minor-league-salary/

[james2334]

The twins management seems a bit shell shocked right now, every decision they've made this year has gone up in flames, almost every prospect promoted has fallen flat on their face. This feels like a safe move, a promotion of a player that won't embarrass himself and even if he does no one is going to pay any attention to him. The owner needs to realize that he needs to hire a GM outside the organization and moves like this should help. 

[Seth Stohs]

 

But don't you think that is unlikely?  How often have the Twins added a player this late in the season, only to DFA them a week later?

 

In addition to Albers recently, Doug Bernier 2014 seems a good comp -- added September 2nd, finished the season in Minnesota.

 

If it's likely that Schafer sticks the rest of the season, even just taking up a 40-man spot in a bench role, doesn't that make this decision a little less "easy", and make you a little less "fine" with it given that you prefer to do otherwise?

 

Bernier was added as a September call up... Though it's just a week, there is a different. 

 

OK, maybe 'easy' wasn't the right word, but again, my bigger point is the other options were Walker and Palka and I'd rather them get 35 more at bats than 7-8 in MLB. 

 

[rghrbek]

 

The twins management seems a bit shell shocked right now, every decision they've made this year has gone up in flames, almost every prospect promoted has fallen flat on their face. This feels like a safe move, a promotion of a player that won't embarrass himself and even if he does no one is going to pay any attention to him. The owner needs to realize that he needs to hire a GM outside the organization and moves like this should help. 

I like this statement and it's seems logical, when we are all speculating what the heck the FO is doing.

 

It's hard to get fired up at this point in the year.    The last few years' roster moves have been beyond baffling.    Hopefully major change can help us all be less callused, to the utter confusion and chaos the Twins organization appears to be in.

[wsnydes]

 

The twins management seems a bit shell shocked right now, every decision they've made this year has gone up in flames, almost every prospect promoted has fallen flat on their face. This feels like a safe move, a promotion of a player that won't embarrass himself and even if he does no one is going to pay any attention to him. The owner needs to realize that he needs to hire a GM outside the organization and moves like this should help. 

I think you make a pretty good point.  I'm not sure I agree with it in late August, but I definitely think it pertains to most of the first half of the season.  At this point, I'd rather see them bring up guys with a potential future with the club versus career minor leaugers.

[alarp33]

 

Bernier was added as a September call up... Though it's just a week, there is a different. 

 

OK, maybe 'easy' wasn't the right word, but again, my bigger point is the other options were Walker and Palka and I'd rather them get 35 more at bats than 7-8 in MLB. 

 

Danny Santana had 22 at bats (would've been 26 if not for the 1st inning injury yesterday) in the past 9 games, so I'm not sure why Palka would only be able to get 7-8

[Thrylos]

 

Danny Santana had 22 at bats (would've been 26 if not for the 1st inning injury yesterday) in the past 9 games, so I'm not sure why Palka would only be able to get 7-8

 

I would not compare Palka with Santana, but with Grossman.  Palka would be the Twins' every day LF, Rosario their everyday CF, and Kepler the everyday RF.  Grossman to the bench.  And if this is too leftie, it is not, because it a good balance to Dozier, Plouffe, Sano.  And if they need a CF in an emergency to Rosario, Kepler can slide in for a game while Buxton is on transit.

[alarp33]

 

I would not compare Palka with Santana, but with Grossman.  Palka would be the Twins' every day LF, Rosario their everyday CF, and Kepler the everyday RF.  Grossman to the bench.  And if this is too leftie, it is not, because it a good balance to Dozier, Plouffe, Sano.  And if they need a CF in an emergency to Rosario, Kepler can slide in for a game while Buxton is on transit.

 

Well yeah, I'm kind of using the "26 Santana at bats" as a baseline.  Obviously Palka could play every day.  I just don't see where "7-8 MLB at bats" came from. 

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Danny Santana had 22 at bats (would've been 26 if not for the 1st inning injury yesterday) in the past 9 games, so I'm not sure why Palka would only be able to get 7-8

Good point.  Even just counting Santana's 3 appearances in LF over the previous 9 games, that's 12 PA.  And another 6 PA in RF.  Only 4 PA (8 if not for injury) as a CF.

 

I'd guess Molitor will be less inclined to play Santana's replacement than he was to play Santana, but that's not a great defense of picking a worse replacement...

[twinsnorth49]

 

Bernier was added as a September call up... Though it's just a week, there is a different. 

 

OK, maybe 'easy' wasn't the right word, but again, my bigger point is the other options were Walker and Palka and I'd rather them get 35 more at bats than 7-8 in MLB. 

Seth, don't you think that's part of the bigger problem here, that even if they did call up Walker or Palka that they would only get in about 7-8 AB's? Why is that? Honestly, at this point what do they need to continue to find out about Grossman that they couldn't play one of the other two with much more regularity? Is that not what they should be doing?

[jud6312]

 

Well yeah, I'm kind of using the "26 Santana at bats" as a baseline.  Obviously Palka could play every day.  I just don't see where "7-8 MLB at bats" came from. 

I think the number came from the assumption that Molly and Co. haven't seen enough of Robert in LF to decide if he's a FT player. I think many people knew at the time he was signed that he wasn't, but it's taking some time for others to figure out.

 

I mean, it's not everyday that a Top-80 prospect from one list 4 years ago makes his way to the waiver wire ... you wouldn't want to make any hasty decisions on him.

[h2oface]

At 29 yrs. old, I'd say Logan Schafer's time playing baseball is close to being over. This could be his last moments in the sun. Why not give him this brief opportunity until the end of the AAA season? It's not like those players are going to see an enormous amount of AB's anyway.

Because he is not really a Minnesota Twins player? Barely in the organization. Is MLB baseball about mercy token appearances and roster spots for drifting strangers?

[old nurse]

 

Grossman has ~1000 career pro games in the outfield.  LF-specific reps, a couple weeks shy of his 27th birthday, are nowhere near equivalent to 3B reps for Sano, who at age 23 has only ~100 games at 3B the last 3 seasons, and only one half-season of consistent 3B starts in that time span.

Balls travel different going to left than right or center. Not the same. Many outfielders have made that claim as to why they prefer one side to the other. If running under a ball were so easy then Sano should have been able to play right.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Bernier was added as a September call up... Though it's just a week, there is a different. 

Fair enough on Bernier specifically.

 

But the larger point still stands.  How many players do you think get DFA'd in September by non-contending teams?  In 2015, there was only one such DFA  -- Matt McBride of the Rockies, and it wasn't to call up a minor league, it was to activate Morneau from the 60-day DL:

 

http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/transactions?year=2015&month=9&type=12

 

I am sure you will find a few more non-contender September DFA's from other years, but not many, and quite likely none who were just added to the roster less than 10 days prior.

 

If you want to win your "less than a dollar" back from the Albers bet, I will bet you that Schafer stays on the roster through September.

 

And if that's the case, we only currently project to have room for one non-40-man September call-up (assuming we transfer Park to the 60-day DL).  Last I read, Milone and Boshers began throwing on August 22nd, so they are likely to be activated yet again this season rather than be 60-day DL candidates.

[wsnydes]

 

Balls travel different going to left than right or center. Not the same. Many outfielders have made that claim as to why they prefer one side to the other. If running under a ball were so easy then Sano should have been able to play right.

I agree with all of that completely, but isn't 1000 career pro games enough to evaluate what you've seen from his historically versus what you've seen from him in person?  

[Seth Stohs]

 

Seth, don't you think that's part of the bigger problem here, that even if they did call up Walker or Palka that they would only get in about 7-8 AB's? Why is that? Honestly, at this point what do they need to continue to find out about Grossman that they couldn't play one of the other two with much more regularity? Is that not what they should be doing?

 

If they called up Walker or Palka, they'd need to get them more than 7-8 at bats. I'd rather see them than Grossman. I don't know what they'd do. I mean, Polanco was up for 2 weeks and hardly played earlier in the year. Kepler was up for a couple weeks and hardly played. What I would do is likely much different than what they would do. 

[jud6312]

 

 

Seth, don't you think that's part of the bigger problem here, that even if they did call up Walker or Palka that they would only get in about 7-8 AB's? Why is that? Honestly, at this point what do they need to continue to find out about Grossman that they couldn't play one of the other two with much more regularity? Is that not what they should be doing?

Playing in the majors - or whatever the Twins are trying to pass off as major league baseball these days - is no longer merit-based.

 

Late season call-ups used to be to reward prospects for outstanding minor league seasons, to get a look at what they might be able to bring to the table the following year, or to provide a late-season boost to a team in a play.

 

Now it's basically a participation trophy ... "Thanks for being a less than mediocre hitter all year, Logan, here's your trophy - don't forget to hang a left and grab an orange slice."