Reusse slams the Twins

[jimmer]

Ok. To act like he's clearly not a prospect anymore is very incorrect

and i didnt say he wasnt. Dont put words in my mouth. Im saying its understandable some are disappointed that our number 4 overall pick is disappointing so far and perhaps thats on develoment.

[alarp33]

and i didnt say he wasnt. Dont put words in my mouth. Im saying its understandable some are disappointed that our number 4 overall pick is disappointing so far and perhaps thats on develoment.

Ok, but why is he disappointing? He's in AA at 21 after being drafted as a raw 18 yo, (tand was great today fwiw), a very reputable source, ESPN (how did they not make your top 3, why are their rankings less meaningful?) still says he is a high end prospect

[jimmer]

 

Ok, but why is he disappointing? He's in AA at 21 after being drafted as a raw 18 yo, (tand was great today fwiw), a very reputable source, ESPN (how did they not make your top 3, why are their rankings less meaningful?) still says he is a high end prospect

http://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.cgi?id=stewar000koh

 

Some might think that someone drafted as high as he was would be considered a much better prospect than many respected prospect publications feel he is now.  Might cause disappointment.

 

If others want to think he's doing just fine then that is awesome.  

 

I'm looking forward to seeing how he does in the majors, whenever that might happen  One would hope that such a high draft pick ends up being a clear #1 or #2 type pitcher.

[Guest]

Well, in fairness, Stewart was a #4 overall pick as well. Right or wrong, those come with high expectations.

 

He was a top 30 prospect once, by one major prospect group, and not in the top 100 by any of the big three prior to this year. Hard to swallow that a #4 overall pick has dropped right off being a top 100 pick.

 

Again, though, for me this is more about player development than the actual drafting of him.

When they draft the most "sure thing" pitcher, Wimmers, it doesn't work out. When they draft the supposed biggest upside, Stewart, it looks iffy, at best. Both drafting and scouting must be examined for improvement, yet TR frequently says he'd do the same thing again.

 

That said, Tyler Jay, who may combine both the sure thing and upside goals, is looking promising.

[jimmer]

 

When they draft the most "sure thing" pitcher, Wimmers, it doesn't work out. When they draft the supposed biggest upside, Stewart, it looks iffy, at best. Both drafting and scouting must be examined for improvement, yet TR frequently says he'd do the same thing again.

again, the problem could very well be how we develop pitchers, not the actual selection.

[Guest]

again, the problem could very well be how we develop pitchers, not the actual selection.

Oh definitely. Just should examine both for improvement opportunities.

[Ncgo4]

Stewart may be the biggest cock-up in recent Twins memory. Someone needs to take charge and motivate him to get into shape. Despite some of the comments here he is not anything but a minimum of 30 lbs overweight. He can run in a straight line very fast (as we saw when he ripped his hamstring) but when you watch him in RF he's a mess because hae cannot easily get his battleship of a body to change direction.

 

As to his being in RF that's a disaster on so many fronts that I'm not going to realist them here. Suffice it to say that a very young very top prospect just learning to hit and putting into a new position that, 1 he's never played before, 2 he will never stay at and 3, they go out and recruit to block him from leaving is stupid beyond imagination.

[alarp33]

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.cgi?id=stewar000koh

 

Some might think that someone drafted as high as he was would be considered a much better prospect than many respected prospect publications feel he is now.  Might cause disappointment.

 

If others want to think he's doing just fine then that is awesome.  

 

I'm looking forward to seeing how he does in the majors, whenever that might happen  One would hope that such a high draft pick ends up being a clear #1 or #2 type pitcher.

 

Taking a high school pitcher is risky no doubt, but I like the fact that they went for the high upside arm.  I agree its more than fair to question their player development, but when it comes to Stewart, I don't really think he is behind schedule by any means.  He was always considered a little raw because of his football background, but here are some other top 10 picks that were high school pitchers

 

2010- #2 Jameson Tallion: MLB Debut on Wednesday

#9 Karsten Whitson: Went to college, hurt his shoulder, 11th round pick, out of baseball (ouch)

 

2011- #4 Dylan Bundy: Pitched an inning in 2012, but has been hurt. I believe he's out of options so in the MLB bullpen this year

#7 Archie Bradley: Started 8 games last year, 5 so far this year. Hasn't been good in MLB thus far

 

2012- #7 Max Fried: Struggling in A ball, returning from injury. Missed 2015

 

2013- #4 Kohl Stewart: Recently promoted to AA

#7 Trey Ball: High A... very poor results so far

#10 Phil Bickford: Didn't sign, went to college, drafted last year in 1st round. In low A doing well

 

2014- #1 Brady Aiken: Didn't sign, Drafted 1st round the following year. Hurt, hasn't pitched yet

#2 Tyler Kolek: Struggling in Low A 

 

 

Is the lesson never to take a High School pitcher in the 1st round? Maybe... But is our #4 pick "disappointing" so far? I'm not so sure about that

[Mike Sixel]

I can't believe people don't want them to celebrate and be happy after a win. Are they just supposed to sit around and mope all day, every day? These are people. I just don't get it.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I can't believe people don't want them to celebrate and be happy after a win. Are they just supposed to sit around and mope all day, every day? These are people. I just don't get it.

I think the degree of the celebration is the issue.  Teams don't pile up on the field, or spray champagne in the clubhouse after every win regardless of context.  The dance party feels a little too close to the that, for a team in our position.  We're on pace for a 49-113 record, for Pete Redfern's sake.

 

The alternative isn't moping, it's just doing your job.  Save the victory celebrations for when you are winning at a rate commesurate with something close to a respectable MLB team.

[Mike Sixel]

I think the degree of the celebration is the issue. Teams don't pile up on the field, or spray champagne in the clubhouse after every win regardless of context. The dance party feels a little too close to the that, for a team in our position. We're on pace for a 49-113 record, for Pete Redfern's sake.

 

The alternative isn't moping, it's just doing your job. Save the victory celebrations for when you are winning at a rate commesurate with something close to a respectable MLB team.

Why not be happy day to day? Why not celebrate every little victory in life? Why not go big? I say live life and be happy. Choose to celebrate. Others disagree. I am cool with that.

[markos]

 

Taking a high school pitcher is risky no doubt, but I like the fact that they went for the high upside arm.  I agree its more than fair to question their player development, but when it comes to Stewart, I don't really think he is behind schedule by any means.  He was always considered a little raw because of his football background, but here are some other top 10 picks that were high school pitchers

 

...

 

Is the lesson never to take a High School pitcher in the 1st round? Maybe... But is our #4 pick "disappointing" so far? I'm not so sure about that

I think he is a bit behind expectations. If you look at the 20 top HS pitchers taken between 2007-2013, there is the following breakdown.

By Year 2 (second full season after drafted):

4 had reached the majors (Bumgarner, Turner, Fernandez, Bundy)

5 had reached AA (Parker, Miller, Taillon, Bradley, Stephenson)

5 dealt with major injuries (Giolito, Fried, Guerrieri, Purke, Hobgood)

Of the remaining 6, one (Wheeler) started Year 3 at AA. The remaining 5 (Matzek, Travieso, Sims, Stewart and Ball) all repeated A+. 

 

There are a couple ways to look at this. On one hand, I think there is a good argument that of the healthy pitchers, Stewart has progressed on the slow side and that his peers in this regard are not terribly inspiring. So that is reason to consider Stewart a disappointing pick so far. On the other hand, a lot will ultimately depend on how Stewart responds to AA and above, and how well his health holds up. He could certainly "catch up" over the next year or two if things go well, as many of the arms "ahead" of Stewart stalled in AA-AAA for performance/health reasons. 

 

My stance is that is it disappointing (though not surprising) that Stewart isn't a phenom, and it is disappointing that he hasn't performed better or moved faster. Relative to his draft status, I think he has under-performed. However, I still consider him a Prospect, I don't think he is a bust, and I certainly don't think his selection at #4 was a poor one.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Why not be happy day to day? Why not celebrate every little victory in life? Why not go big? I say live life and be happy. Choose to celebrate. Others disagree. I am cool with that.

Again, I didn't say anything about not being happy day to day, or celebrating in life.

 

But for the Twins, this is like a poorly run company seeing its stock price plummet, but having a big organized company celebration for every day their stock price doesn't fall further (even though it's barely above a penny a share as it is), generally instigated by the top executives/officials that are most responsible for its current poor condition. 

 

At least run off a little winning streak before you do that.  Maybe once after a long tense losing streak to let off a little steam, okay.  Celebrate a big performance for a particular player, especially a rookie, sure.  But after every win, no matter how ugly?  When you are winning 1-2 games per week?  Seems a tad much.

 

Actually, it seems like a bunch of guys just aimlessly copying what they thought Torii did as a "team leader" last year.

[jokin]

 

Yeah, ignoring everything else, I can't believe they are doing this.  Even if you think PEDs had nothing to do with his improbable career arc, he's been a jerk to this franchise every chance he's had.  

 

You really think the Twins haven't deserved most of those Ortiz comments?... Kind-of ironic phrasing on your part, since it was him who was jerked around by the Twins for such a long time- who, even Ryan admitted after the fact, they completely were unaware of the fact that he was a HOFer in the making.

[alarp33]

 

I think he is a bit behind expectations. If you look at the 20 top HS pitchers taken between 2007-2013, there is the following breakdown.

By Year 2 (second full season after drafted):

4 had reached the majors (Bumgarner, Turner, Fernandez, Bundy)

5 had reached AA (Parker, Miller, Taillon, Bradley, Stephenson)

5 dealt with major injuries (Giolito, Fried, Guerrieri, Purke, Hobgood)

Of the remaining 6, one (Wheeler) started Year 3 at AA. The remaining 5 (Matzek, Travieso, Sims, Stewart and Ball) all repeated A+. 

 

There are a couple ways to look at this. On one hand, I think there is a good argument that of the healthy pitchers, Stewart has progressed on the slow side and that his peers in this regard are not terribly inspiring. So that is reason to consider Stewart a disappointing pick so far. On the other hand, a lot will ultimately depend on how Stewart responds to AA and above, and how well his health holds up. He could certainly "catch up" over the next year or two if things go well, as many of the arms "ahead" of Stewart stalled in AA-AAA for performance/health reasons. 

 

My stance is that is it disappointing (though not surprising) that Stewart isn't a phenom, and it is disappointing that he hasn't performed better or moved faster. Relative to his draft status, I think he has under-performed. However, I still consider him a Prospect, I don't think he is a bust, and I certainly don't think his selection at #4 was a poor one.

 

All fair points, but I think we all knew he would be moving on the slow side due to his football background.  I can't pretend to know the exact reasons they started him in Fort Meyers this year, but he is going to pitch the majority of his 2016 innings in AA.  

 

As for the guys who reached AA early - a couple (Taillon and Stephenson) were for only a few starts... Stewart had a decent season in A+ (other than K rate obviously), its not a stretch to say he could've pitched a few games in Chattanooga. 

 

 

[jokin]

 

That's the part that gets me.  He wrecks this franchise every chance he gets.  I don't have a ton of respect for the guy to begin with, but constantly beating that dead horse is tiresome and classless.  He thinks and acts like he's bigger than the game itself.

 

Hall of Famers who get disrespected for years on end at the start of their careers- and then enjoy an eye-opening experience with a franchise that lets him be himself and is actually committed to winning, tend to do that.

[alarp33]

 

You really think the Twins haven't deserved most of those Ortiz comments?... Kind-of ironic phrasing on your part, since it was him who was jerked around by the Twins for such a long time- who, even Ryan admitted after the fact, they completely were unaware of the fact that he was a HOFer in the making.

 

The comments were regarding whether the Twins should be honoring him.  

 

Sure I can see him being upset with the way things ended with the Twins, but its safe to say he's had the last laugh, and after 14 years or whatever, 3 world series, and a potential HOF spot, it might be time for David to let it go

[drivlikejehu]

 

I think he is a bit behind expectations. If you look at the 20 top HS pitchers taken between 2007-2013, there is the following breakdown.

By Year 2 (second full season after drafted):

4 had reached the majors (Bumgarner, Turner, Fernandez, Bundy)

5 had reached AA (Parker, Miller, Taillon, Bradley, Stephenson)

5 dealt with major injuries (Giolito, Fried, Guerrieri, Purke, Hobgood)

Of the remaining 6, one (Wheeler) started Year 3 at AA. The remaining 5 (Matzek, Travieso, Sims, Stewart and Ball) all repeated A+. 

 

There are a couple ways to look at this. On one hand, I think there is a good argument that of the healthy pitchers, Stewart has progressed on the slow side and that his peers in this regard are not terribly inspiring. So that is reason to consider Stewart a disappointing pick so far. On the other hand, a lot will ultimately depend on how Stewart responds to AA and above, and how well his health holds up. He could certainly "catch up" over the next year or two if things go well, as many of the arms "ahead" of Stewart stalled in AA-AAA for performance/health reasons. 

 

My stance is that is it disappointing (though not surprising) that Stewart isn't a phenom, and it is disappointing that he hasn't performed better or moved faster. Relative to his draft status, I think he has under-performed. However, I still consider him a Prospect, I don't think he is a bust, and I certainly don't think his selection at #4 was a poor one.

 

If Stewart spends 3-4 years as a mid-rotation starter, he'll be one of the Twins' best draft picks of the past 20 years. 

[jokin]

 

Dude he's 6'-4" and 278 pounds.  He's not exactly lean more like porky.

 

Nope. Have you seen him close-up? Definitely not anything like porky.

[jokin]

 

yeah, it's a very poorly constructed roster.  Been saying that for quite some time.  Some still believe it's well constructed, though.

 

I want names!

[jokin]

 

The comments were regarding whether the Twins should be honoring him.  

 

Sure I can see him being upset with the way things ended with the Twins, but its safe to say he's had the last laugh, and after 14 years or whatever, 3 world series, and a potential HOF spot, it might be time for David to let it go

 

Why? Perhaps this is the very thing that motivates him every morning when he wakes up.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

it might be time for David to let it go

One complicating factor is that the same Twins leadership is still in place, and in some ways they seem to be operating the same way (under-utilizing a Dominican slugger like Sano, etc.).  The Ortiz decision was 14 years ago, but the climate hasn't changed much.

[alarp33]

 

One complicating factor is that the same Twins leadership is still in place, and in some ways they seem to be operating the same way (under-utilizing a Dominican slugger like Sano, etc.).  The Ortiz decision was 14 years ago, but the climate hasn't changed much.

 

Not disagreeing with any of that.  

 

SImply saying.  The Twins shouldn't be honoring Ortiz, its a slap in the face reminder of their terrible decision making. And Ortiz should just shut up already

[nicksaviking]

Every team is honoring Ortiz, the Giants just did it and there are no ties there.

 

I'd think if all 29 teams BUT the Twins did it, it would reflect quite poorly on the club.

[alarp33]

 

Every team is honoring Ortiz, the Giants just did it and there are no ties there.

 

I'd think if all 29 teams BUT the Twins did it, it would reflect quite poorly on the club.

 

The ritual of "honoring" any long time Yankee or Red Sox is a discussion for another day. But it is beyond stupid

[DaveW]

Not disagreeing with any of that.

 

SImply saying. The Twins shouldn't be honoring Ortiz, its a slap in the face reminder of their terrible decision making. And Ortiz should just shut up already

The Twins are only honoring him because they hope it will sell a few more tickets to the ball park in an otherwise terrible season.

 

Ortiz has every right to speak his mind, twins fans have way too thin of skin, nothing he has said is that bad. People bash athletes/reporters for not getting any "real" comments or thoughts from a player, and when they do we immediately say "he should shut up!" What's up with that?

 

David Ortiz is a winner, plain and simple. Instead of being upset and him, perhaps we should be upset that nothing has changed in the last 20 years of this franchise and their "efforts"/brain trust.

 

David Ortiz left, hit 500+ bombs, won three titles and a couple playoff/World Series MVP awards as well. During that time the Twins won one playoff series, and had Jason Tyner as their DH in another playoff series.

 

I applaud the man, class act, great ambassador for the game, great teammate and an all time great hitter. The Twins could have used a guy like Ortiz in those playoff seasons.

[DaveW]

The ritual of "honoring" any long time Yankee or Red Sox is a discussion for another day. But it is beyond stupid

I think any year long honoring is lame, but at least in this case Big Papi who is one of the most popular and beloved players in baseball is at the center of it.

[alarp33]

 

The Twins are only honoring him because they hope it will sell a few more tickets to the ball park in an otherwise terrible season.

Ortiz has every right to speak his mind, twins fans have way too thin of skin, nothing he has said is that bad. People bash athletes/reporters for not getting any "real" comments or thoughts from a player, and when they do we immediately say "he should shut up!" What's up with that?

David Ortiz is a winner, plain and simple. Instead of being upset and him, perhaps we should be upset that nothing has changed in the last 20 years of this franchise and their "efforts"/brain trust.

David Ortiz left, hit 500+ bombs, won three titles and a couple playoff/World Series MVP awards as well. During that time the Twins won one playoff series, and had Jason Tyner as their DH in another playoff series.

I applaud the man, class act, great ambassador for the game, great teammate and an all time great hitter. The Twins could have used a guy like Ortiz in those playoff seasons.

 

1) I agree they are only doing it to try and sell tickets

2) I don't have thin skin at all, I think they deserved to be called out for the way they handled him, and players like him.  It's been 14 years, give it up is all I'm trying to say.  

3) Not sure at all how this turned into Red Sox vs Twins accomplishments, or whether the Twins could've used his bat for the last 14 years, but if you think I am trying to defend the way the Twins handled him you couldn't be more wrong.  

4) All time great hitter, and steroid user ( I don't care about steroids). Goes to show if you have an outgoing personality people will forget you used steroids.,  Bonds should've smiled more I guess

 

*One more note... I'm not at all "upset" at Ortiz. I'm "upset" the Twins are "honoring" him, and think it fits in with Reusee's column as another embarrassing 2016 moment

 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Actually, it seems like a bunch of guys just aimlessly copying what they thought Torii did as a "team leader" last year.

Maye Torii went around to each player individually and made them promise in blood that there will always be the dance party after a win, no matter how high the high, or low the low. That's not necessarily something Reusse would know about

[KirbyDome89]

 

I can't believe people don't want them to celebrate and be happy after a win. Are they just supposed to sit around and mope all day, every day? These are people. I just don't get it.

Right?.....They might as well enjoy the few precious Ws they pull off....