Article: David Ortiz: A Minnesota Retrospective

[Cody Christie]

David Ortiz will always have a lasting place in Twins lore. He's the "one that got away for nothing" before becoming a legend in Boston. Ortiz is likely on his way to the Hall of Fame and the Twins released him. Even Terry Ryan has admitted that letting the slugger go was a "mistake."

 

Boston is making their lone 2016 trek to Target Field next week and Ortiz is planning on retiring at season's end. This means he will be making his final appearance in Minnesota, the place where he made his big league debut.The Twins weren't the only team to give up on Ortiz before he reached his full potential. Around Thanksgiving in 1992, Ortiz was signed as an amateur free agent by the Seattle Mariners. He'd play three seasons in the Mariners system and he hit 18 home runs in the Midwest League as a 20-year old.

 

Minnesota liked what they saw in Ortiz and he was dealt from Seattle as a player to be named later in a trade for Dave Hollins. He would fly through Minnesota's three highest minor league levels during the next season and he even made his debut by season's end. In 140 minor league games, he cracked 31 home runs, drove in 124, and posted a .940 OPS. He's was only 21-years old and it looked like he might be one of the players to help turn around Minnesota's losing ways.

 

Prior to the 1998 season, Baseball America ranked him as the 84th best prospect in the game. It was the only time he would be featured on their prospect list. During that season, he was limited to 97 games but 86 of those games came at the big league level. He combined to hit .277/.371/.446 with 29 extra-base hits but he struck out in over a 25% of his at-bats.

 

Minnesota couldn't find a place for Ortiz in the 1999 line-up as he played all but 10 games at the Triple-A level. Keep in mind, the 1998 Twins were on their way to finishing with a 63-97 record and their leading home run hitter was Ron Coomer. Meanwhile at Triple-A, Ortiz slugged 30 home runs and 35 double while posting a .315/.412/.590 batting line.

 

As the calendar turned to a new century, Ortiz was given his first full season of MLB action. He posted a .810 OPS with 47 extra-base hits. He finished second on the team in doubles, third in OPS, and he was one of four Twins to hit double-digit home runs.

 

Things started changing in 2001. Ortiz was hurt again for a chunk of the season as he was limited to 89 games. Even with the limited number of games, he was able to hit 18 home runs and 17 doubles. However, the Twins were looking for Ortiz to have a breakout season and he hadn't been able to do that up to that point.

 

2002 would be the final season for Ortiz in Minnesota. He put up very respectable numbers as he collected 20 home runs for the first time in his career and hit .272/.339/.500. The Twins won 94 games and made it all the way to the ALCS before falling to the eventual World Series champions, the Angels. Ortiz hit .313 in that ALCS with a pair of RBIs but it wasn't enough.

 

Minnesota entered the off-season at an interesting point in their franchise. They were on the brink of a string of six division titles in nine seasons. Ortiz was eligible for arbitration and would likely get a bump in pay to around $2 million. Matt LeCroy, a former first-round pick, was a much cheaper option at designated hitter. The club also had Doug Mientkiewicz at first base and budding first base prospect Justin Morneau. Oritz was getting pushed out by the other options.

 

The Twins still needed to be conscious of how they were spending their money and Ortiz was getting expensive. He had yet to produce a breakout season at the big league level and there had been some injury concerns in the past. It was the cheap choice but that's where the Twins were in the Metrodome era.

 

Boston signed Ortiz for $1.25 million, a figure that was almost half of what he would have made in arbitration. The Red Sox took a flyer on him and it was a franchise altering move. He has gone on to win multiple World Series rings and was a vital reason the Red Sox were able to break their championship drought. After nine All-Star Game appearances and six Silver Slugger Awards, Ortiz is a legend.

 

It was a mistake and you'd be tough pressed to find anyone who didn't come to the same conclusion. Every team has skeletons in their closet but the Ortiz decision will live on in Twins Territory for years to come.

 

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[tobi0040]

Lucroy over Ortiz. Good stuff. I just remember that Lucroy always had a huge bat. Literally. Seemed like his bat was monstrous and he could not not really get it around.

[Seth Stohs]

Ortiz couldn't stay on the field, and the turf at the Dome killed his knees. Sure would have been nice to get his production, but his career wouldn't have been anything close to what it has become had he stayed. He probably wouldn't have been able to walk by now. 

 

Sure, in hindsight, it goes down as one of the biggest blunders in the team's history, but at the time, it made a ton of sense. 

[PopRiveter]

Ortiz was my favorite Twins player when they let him go, and even though I wanted him to stay, letting him go didn't seem crazy at the time.

Today, I want to see them hang onto Arcia and get rewarded for it. Seems like it would be a good way to replace a bad taste that's been in my mouth for 15ish years.

[USAFChief]

Ortiz couldn't stay on the field, and the turf at the Dome killed his knees. Sure would have been nice to get his production, but his career wouldn't have been anything close to what it has become had he stayed. He probably wouldn't have been able to walk by now. 

 

Sure, in hindsight, it goes down as one of the biggest blunders in the team's history, but at the time, it made a ton of sense.

 

Talk about hindsight.

 

He wouldn't be able to walk? 2002 was the only season in Minnesota where a knee injury gave him problems. He was no more likely to have knee issues than any similar player, and remember...they kept Lecroy over him. How does that make sense, durability wise?

 

It was a blunder. Then and now. It made no sense, then or now.

 

Rationalizations are just that, then or now.

[Thrylos]

It was a huge mistake and an even bigger mistake was that nobody was held accountable for it.

[Seth Stohs]

 

Talk about hindsight.

He wouldn't be able to walk? 2002 was the only season in Minnesota where a knee injury gave him problems. He was no more likely to have knee issues than any similar player, and remember...they kept Lecroy over him. How does that make sense, durability wise?

It was a blunder. Then and now. It made no sense, then or now.

Rationalizations are just that, then or now.

 

That's fine, but there weren't exactly other teams claiming him either. He didn't sign until pretty late, and he came to Red Sox camp hoping to find some playing time, maybe platooning with Kevin Millar or competing with Jeremy Giambi. It's not like teams were clamoring for him. 

 

Good for him though, he made the most of it and took off.

[Mr. Brooks]

Ortiz couldn't stay on the field, and the turf at the Dome killed his knees. Sure would have been nice to get his production, but his career wouldn't have been anything close to what it has become had he stayed. He probably wouldn't have been able to walk by now.

 

Sure, in hindsight, it goes down as one of the biggest blunders in the team's history, but at the time, it made a ton of sense.

When would a DH ever even be on the turf??

[HitInAPinch]

I was going to say something like, "hindsight" and "time to let it go".  Then I looked at his 2000-2002 stats:

 

.265 BA, 48 HR, 186 RBI

 

A ballerina at 1st?  Er, no.  Neither is Sano in RF         

Different era.

 

Edited May 31, 2016 by HitInAPinch

[TheLeviathan]

Yeah, no one was clamoring....because we so thoroughly bungled his talents that no one could see the diamond in the rough. It was a historic bungle due to a problem we still face - stubborn inflexibility about letting talents be themselves rather than encouraging who they are and what they can do.

[Seth Stohs]

 

When would a DH ever even be on the turf??

 

When he was slapping all those little singles to left... 

[clutterheart]

With Ortiz Twins probably win the 2006 WS.  If that happened, Mauer and Gardy could be HOF candidates

 

If wishes were fishes....damn it.

[Thrylos]

 

With Ortiz Twins probably win the 2006 WS.

 

So you think that Ortiz would had been better than Phil Nevin and Jason Tyner than Ryan and Gardy had at DH when they went 0-3 against the As?

 

(He had just  a .287/.413/.636 slash line with 54 HR and 137 RBI in 2006)

Edited May 31, 2016 by Thrylos

[tobi0040]

So you think that Ortiz would had been better than Phil Nevin and Jason Tyner than Ryan and Gardy had at DH when they went 0-3 against the As?

 

(He had just  a .287/.413/.636 slash line with 54 HR and 137 RBI in 2006)

I don't think we have enough data to determine who is the superior DH, Ortiz or Tyner.

[Platoon]

Just a perusal of the column leaves me with the impression that money played a large part in Ortiz leaving? His stats seemed above average, and he was pretty young. Makes me think that I should read it again, there is no way money could have been the determining factor? We should get over this, Ryan was somewhat new as a GM at the time, and made mistakes. He has learned and adjusted! How do I know? He now keeps all DH type players on the team, and will even bring some in from other countries. True it causes a few glitches on defense, but most baseball games are won by hitting, not pitching or defense.

[Platoon]

I don't think we have enough data to determine who is the superior DH, Ortiz or Tyner.

Yes we don't!

[DaveW]

 

Talk about hindsight.

He wouldn't be able to walk? 2002 was the only season in Minnesota where a knee injury gave him problems. He was no more likely to have knee issues than any similar player, and remember...they kept Lecroy over him. How does that make sense, durability wise?

It was a blunder. Then and now. It made no sense, then or now.

Rationalizations are just that, then or now.

This 100%

 

I hated it at the time, and hate it even more now. Ortiz was my favorite player on those teams, super fun, down to earth guy and he could hit the ball a mile. My Ortiz signed jersey is still a favorite of mine.

[DaveW]

 

 

Yeah, no one was clamoring....because we so thoroughly bungled his talents that no one could see the diamond in the rough. It was a historic bungle due to a problem we still face - stubborn inflexibility about letting talents be themselves rather than encouraging who they are and what they can do.

He had a .500 slugging percentage and 20 HR in 400 AB his last season in Minnesota.  He wasn't exactly "flying below the radar" IMO. The power and talent were there.

[jimbo92107]

His swing was like Dave Parker of the Pirates, but with even more power. Ortiz could play good 1st base, surprisingly nimble feet and a quick glove. As Seth said, the knock on him was a lack of durability, or the perception of it. 

 

Part of the learning process for young players is learning how to take care of their bodies, avoiding injuries, staying in shape, etc. David Ortiz went through that phase, but he got over it and has had a great career. 

 

For those who have forgotten, Ortiz was irritated by the hitting philosophy of the Twins, which emphasized hitting to all fields, where Ortiz wanted to just pull home runs. Later he credited Twins coaches for helping make him a better hitter, able to go oppo when needed. Ortiz got many key hits for Boston by flipping his wrists to send a ball to left field. 

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Ortiz couldn't stay on the field, and the turf at the Dome killed his knees. Sure would have been nice to get his production, but his career wouldn't have been anything close to what it has become had he stayed. He probably wouldn't have been able to walk by now. 

 

Sure, in hindsight, it goes down as one of the biggest blunders in the team's history, but at the time, it made a ton of sense. 

"A ton of sense"?  Not really.  We got nothing in return for him.  We saved no more than $2 million, coming off a season where we paid Bob Wells $1.7 million, and in the midst of a multi-year, multi-million dollar contract for Denny Hocking...

 

Sure, there were still questions about his future, no doubt, but that doesn't mean you cut him at that point for nothing.  In the second half of 2002, Ortiz was one of the top 30 hitters in baseball:

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2002&month=31&season1=2002&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=17,d

[Otto von Ballpark]

He didn't sign until pretty late.

Not quite true. He was barely a FA for a month, and I believe that included the holidays. He signed a guaranteed major league deal with a very competitive club in mid-January. It wasn't fully what he would have made in arbitration, but it was close enough to almost immediately cast doubt on the Twins decision.

[Otto von Ballpark]

How many times have the Twins held on to guys providing negative value, just because they didn't want to cut them for nothing? How many times have they held onto guys, because younger and less experienced options weren't fully ready yet?

 

Moreover, what is most important for a competitive small market team is not saving money, but maximizing assets. The Twins cut Ortiz when he was due to make no more than $2 mil, and the market valued him at $1.25 mil. Net, we saved no more than $750k, barely twice the minimum salary at the time.

 

Meanwhile, Mientkiewicz was coming off a pretty mediocre season in 2002, LeCroy had done very little in MLB and was quite possibly less useful than Ortiz for platoon reasons, and Morneau was still 1.5 years from arriving in MLB to stay.

 

No, it made no sense to drop Ortiz at that moment from a baseball or business perspective. That is what was most troubling about the Ortiz situation. The decision to cut him at that moment appears to have been made with other considerations primarily in mind, whether personal, cultural, etc.

[tobi0040]

Ortiz had more MLB success than Lecroy. Both of them were 26. Papi's minor OPS was .913, while Lecroy's was .871.

 

Hard to look and think this was not solely about money.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Hard to look and think this was not solely about money.

Not seeing it. At most, cutting Ortiz saved $2 mil -- but we had $2 mil in the budget at the end of spring training to add Kenny Rogers after Milton went down (shuffling Johan to the pen for a few more months). There was no imperative to shed that money in December.

 

(And even if there was, there were plenty of other places to shave the 2003 and beyond budgets if necessary. Heck, Mientkiewicz was already almost out earning Ortiz, and was coming off a worse season too and more likely to be ousted by a better prospect in Morneau, because they probably wouldn't want Morneau to DH full time and Doug's bat wouldn't play there either.)

[tobi0040]

Not seeing it. At most, cutting Ortiz saved $2 mil -- but we had $2 mil in the budget at the end of spring training to add Kenny Rogers after Milton went down (shuffling Johan to the pen for a few more months). There was no imperative to shed that money in December.

 

(And even if there was, there were plenty of other places to shave the 2003 and beyond budgets if necessary. Heck, Mientkiewicz was already almost out earning Ortiz, and was coming off a worse season too and more likely to be ousted by a better prospect in Morneau, because they probably wouldn't want Morneau to DH full time and Doug's bat wouldn't play there either.)

I am not saying we could not afford the $750k. Heck, we paid Hocking $1m in 2003. But I think TR viewed Ortiz and Lecroy as the same player, so he went with the low cost option.

[TheLeviathan]

 

He had a .500 slugging percentage and 20 HR in 400 AB his last season in Minnesota.  He wasn't exactly "flying below the radar" IMO. The power and talent were there.

 

It's just a simple truth that he wasn't signed until the end of the offseason and then didn't even start until several months into the season.  The power and talent were there, but he wasn't a hot commodity.

 

But I blame the misuse of his talents for that by the Twins.

[Otto von Ballpark]

It's just a simple truth that he wasn't signed until the end of the offseason and then didn't even start until several months into the season. The power and talent were there, but he wasn't a hot commodity.

Released Dec. 16, signed Jan. 22. This idea that he went unsigned an excessively long time should be put to rest.

 

Also, he was on a 360 PA season pace through May, so he was getting a decent opportunity even before he warmed up in June and secured a permanent starting gig.

[Champuckett]

Maybe I missed it in this thread, but I'm surprised no one has mentioned the disagreement and fallout that occurred with Ortiz and the coaching staff prior to his departure.

 

http://nesn.com/2016/03/david-ortiz-twins-treated-me-bad-before-i-left-signed-with-red-sox/

 

Ortiz was being taught to go the other way by the coaches in order to make him a more dynamic hitter.  He of course had power, but the coaches at the time wanted to see him hit for average instead, which was the mantra during this time.  He was hitting for power, but he wasn't hitting for as high of average, using the dome turf, as the team liked, and between that and subsequent injuries lost a lot of play time and was eventually ousted in favor of LeCroy as is well known here by now.

 

In articles that have been published regarding Ortiz and the Twins since he left the organization, he commented on this saying he didn't understand the approach and to this day, still doesn't.  I would say since he successfully changed his approach and is now a likely HoFer, his actions and performance on the field proved his notions correct.

[Kwak]

I believe there were several factors: money, but it was 1st or even 2nd; the Twins were enamored with Mientkevitz and his defense--and were willing to pay a salary premium (as well as a spot on the Active roster) to keep him at 1st instead of moving Ortiz to1B (who played pretty good Defense!); Gardenhire's love for a 3rd catcher and perceived need for RH hitting; but, I believe the most important factor was the clash between Ortiz and the Twins over  his hitting style--the clash of egos! The Twins won the ego battle but the overall war!! Mientkevitch was easily tradable and given a full year at 1B Ortiz could have fetched a very tidy sum in a trade after the 2003 season. So foolish.

[Wizard11]

I was furious at the time about this choice. A younger version of me even wrote letter to Terry Ryan campaigning for the Twins to keep Ortiz.(The only time I have ever done anything like that). The local media had been speculating this would happen. It did in fact seem to be a major mistake to many fans, myself included. Torii Hunter spoke out against this decision as well. Tom Kelly criticized Ortiz regularly on his Sunday radio show in regard to "Mr. Ortiz's inability" to hit to the opposite field. He was very condescending with fans who called in about his Ortiz views and would frequently make very critical comments of their perspective. It was clear he had strong views on David Ortiz and they were not terribly favorable. TK retained influence with the Twins FO. I remember one show where he essentially compared his skill set to Pedro Munoz or Bernardo Brito. Bit wrong there as it turns out. He also frequently mentioned Ortiz's defensive limitations but it was in juxtaposition to Mientkiewicz's exceptional defensive skills. Dave Ortiz was a serviceable 1B on a team that already had exceptional defense there. The issue of offering him arbitration was framed in part around DH but at that time many thought Ortiz would do fine at 1B as well. So it was keep 2 of 3 from Dougie, LeCroy, or Ortiz. Fun fact, David Ortiz was originally known as David Arias. Some sort of "misunderstanding" with birth certificates