JR Graham Traded To Yankees

[jokin]

 

1)They must have been encouraged by last year's performance, because they chose to keep him on the 40 man over the winter, over Zach Jones.

2) As was well pointed out a few posts above, they could have waited one more day and wouldn't have needed his 40 man spot.

 

So now they've instead chosen to lose- 1) Graham 2) Zach Jones 3) Sean Gilmartin.

 

Can't make this stuff up.

[jokin]

 

Because there was hope that he could become Ryan Pressly... 

 

Why give up on that hope right now? He might have even better stuff than Pressly.

 

You gotta admit that the timing is odd.

[jokin]

 

And 1 mop up appearance this year convinced them he can't be?

 

Only way to know for sure was if Gardy had his stopwatch out.

[jokin]

 

No.  Last season's performance plus this season's performance, including spring training, etc., convinced them that he cannot perform like Ryan Pressly.

 

It's like stringer bell said above: let's not look at every player who doesn't work out as sufficient evidence that Terry Ryan is the root of all evil.  That crap is getting really old around here.  Take a step back, people: most baseball prospects fail.  By a huge margin, in fact.  And that's true for every single MLB team.

 

I've got substantial problems with how this team is run, but we simply cannot have a freak out every time one player doesn't pan out.

 

How about if a dozen players don't pan out? And how about the extended slow-play on every single "fireballing" college arm in the system?

[jokin]

 

Exactly Seth. A month plus into 2016, they are convinced he won't be that good and he's behind a number of other guys.

 

But the Yankees are convinced otherwise?

[DaveW]

Why give up on that hope right now? He might have even better stuff than Pressly.

 

You gotta admit that the timing is odd.

Easier for TR to make: milone, Fien, Graham, Buxton etc the scapegoats then to look in the mirror and release you are the problem?

[Winston Smith]

 

Well at least now we have something to discuss besides the record. Btw, while this post was not sarcastic, we really need to get a sarcasm button on here. Some of the humor is just to subtle and refined to comprehend for some (of us)

What humor?

[goulik]

No, that is not even close to the same.

Most players on your roster help you win some, and also lose some. It's not fair to point out a game here or there that a player cost you, since they probably helped you win a few too.

This is different. They chose to compete with a 24 man roster against teams who had 25 players.

(Graham was only used in games in which the outcome was largely already decided)

Like it or not, that in itself is a role. if he was not filling that role someone else would have. You have to have someone eating those wasted innings.

 

Regardless his role, making the playoffs last year would have been nice but not if it was at the expense of long term. If he had turned into a Pressly then everyone would approve but he didn't in a year we were not aiming for the playoffs. THIS is the year we wanted a push and this is the year to be upset about. Last year we over achieved, this year is under achievement. Blaming the GM for players under performing and not panning out is not a fair evaluation. Blaming a GM for hiring the coaches over seeing under performance is fair. Something is amiss and change on and off the field needs to happen but really? All this over Graham?

Talk to me if he turns into Gilmartin and then blame the coaches for that, not the GM.

[Platoon]

What humor?

See, exactly what I meant!

[Seth Stohs]

 

How about if a dozen players don't pan out? And how about the extended slow-play on every single "fireballing" college arm in the system?

 

Which fireballing college arm has been slow played... meaning they should be in the big leagues now?

[Platoon]

There are days this year when it seems like Ryan wakes up and says, "hey, I gotta get something done today, regardless whether it makes sense". It isn't getting rid of the caliber of Graham, although I would not have, it's the keeping him on the 25 man all last year, thought the off season and dumping him before he really got to play around in Rochester. It so willy nilly!

[Platoon]

Which fireballing college arm has been slow played... meaning they should be in the big leagues now?

It wasn't my post, but you could leave the word college out, and end up with Chargois, Burdi, Berrios, Meyer, etc. There should be no arguement that they avoid promoting velocity like the plague!

[HitInAPinch]

 

It wasn't my post, but you could leave the word college out, and end up with Chargois, Burdi, Berrios, Meyer, etc. There should be no arguement that they avoid promoting velocity like the plague!

Trevor May, Ryan Pressly, Mike Tonkin ?

[jimbo92107]

So either the team badly mis-identified him as a future contributor or they bungled keeping him on the roster (but rarely using him) for an entire year.  

 

Either way it's hard to be anything other than frustrated about the Twins/Graham situation. 

Harsh judgement. You see a guy with a really live arm, coming off an injury. He's a former high draft pick, brings the ball mid-90's, sharp breaking ball... You grab him with Rule 5, stash him a year, see that he still needs some polish. 

 

Sometimes these moves don't work out. If Graham were a sure thing, he would never have been a Rule 5 guy.

[HitInAPinch]

The Twins were only in the playoffs last year because of the 2nd wildcard spot created by owners to get more money for teams that don't have the money to compete with the LA, NY and CA's of the world.

 

Twins 2015 record:  83w - 79L.  12 games behind the Royals.

 

Some snippets from the MLBTR article:

 

"He spent most of 2015 in their bullpen, posting a 4.95 ERA, 7.5 K/9 and 3.0 BB/9 for the season"

 

"The Twins designated Graham for assignment last week after he allowed ten runs in 8 1/3 innings for Triple-A Rochester this season."

 

From another article:  "5.10 ERA (4.63 FIP) in 65.1 career big league innings"

 

Sometimes a Rule 5 guy doesn't work out.  Sometimes they REALLY don't.

 

The only thing I really see to get riled up about is:  The Twins will actually get something for a pitcher with that poor of a record they DA'd a week or so ago.  NY is sending him to AA ball. 

 

 

 

[Seth Stohs]

 

It wasn't my post, but you could leave the word college out, and end up with Chargois, Burdi, Berrios, Meyer, etc. There should be no arguement that they avoid promoting velocity like the plague!

 

Chargois has struggled since his first five games but was still promoted to Rochester. Nick Burdi wasn't good last year and got hurt this year. Berrios debuted in the big leagues at 21. Meyer, maybe a cup of coffee in 2014, but hard to say he should have been up in 2015, and now hurt again...

 

May was called up right when he was ready. Probably would have been a month or two sooner, but he hurt his (ankle?) before the Futures Game. Pressly was a Rule 5 guy, and he was called back up relatively quickly the following year. He got hurt last year. Tonkin had several opportunities, though few were extended. 

 

Also, Melotakis missed a year, and struggled early this year at AA. Reed's ERA in AA is again high. 

 

I don't think promoting them too slow is the bigger issue.

[diehardtwinsfan]

A few weeks ago, people were calling for Graham to be DFAd.  Now, we're complaining b/c he was traded?  Even if it becomes cash considerations, why are we complaining about this?

[Otto von Ballpark]

A few weeks ago, people were calling for Graham to be DFAd. Now, we're complaining b/c he was traded? Even if it becomes cash considerations, why are we complaining about this?

He wasn't DFA'd to add anybody better (or perhaps anybody, given the open spot on the 40-man). I am not sure anyone was advocating Graham be cut just for the sake of cutting him.

[DJSim22]

 

But why dump Graham with an open spot on the 40 man roster, no one needing an immediate add, and at least Mastro, Vargas and probably Dean available for painless removal at any time? Not to mention Perkins being in 60 day DL territory (I notice the Yankees put someone on the 60 day DL to make room for Graham). And our bullpen still largely lousy overall.

Seems a weird time to make a definitive judgement on Graham, for no appreciable gain.

 

I completely agree with this.  What is/are the counter move(s) that make this necessary?  Doesn't make sense, although I don't know what players are on the list of TBNL. 

 

[Mr. Brooks]

Like it or not, that in itself is a role. if he was not filling that role someone else would have. You have to have someone eating those wasted innings.

 

Regardless his role, making the playoffs last year would have been nice but not if it was at the expense of long term. If he had turned into a Pressly then everyone would approve but he didn't in a year we were not aiming for the playoffs. THIS is the year we wanted a push and this is the year to be upset about. Last year we over achieved, this year is under achievement. Blaming the GM for players under performing and not panning out is not a fair evaluation. Blaming a GM for hiring the coaches over seeing under performance is fair. Something is amiss and change on and off the field needs to happen but really? All this over Graham?

Talk to me if he turns into Gilmartin and then blame the coaches for that, not the GM.

They gave up 2 players to keep him (Gilmartin and Jones), then gave him one month before selling him.

We don't yet know whether he panned out or not, he hasn't been given time.

[Guest]

Chargois has struggled since his first five games but was still promoted to Rochester. Nick Burdi wasn't good last year and got hurt this year. Berrios debuted in the big leagues at 21. Meyer, maybe a cup of coffee in 2014, but hard to say he should have been up in 2015, and now hurt again...

 

May was called up right when he was ready. Probably would have been a month or two sooner, but he hurt his (ankle?) before the Futures Game. Pressly was a Rule 5 guy, and he was called back up relatively quickly the following year. He got hurt last year. Tonkin had several opportunities, though few were extended. 

 

Also, Melotakis missed a year, and struggled early this year at AA. Reed's ERA in AA is again high. 

 

I don't think promoting them too slow is the bigger issue.

Add Gutierrez, Hunt, Bashore, Boer, Bard, Tootle, Bulluck just off the top of my head. Reed is bad twice in AA, Burdi isn't rising as predicted, Cederoth is struggling to be on the field in Low A. Melotakis- not rising. Chargois- looks iffy. Lot of washouts of high selections. Is it bad selection, bad development, or just par for the course? Seems like one should have made it.

[Mr. Brooks]

Which fireballing college arm has been slow played... meaning they should be in the big leagues now?

Part of the justification for spending early round draft picks on them was that they thought they'd be fast movers.

Clearly they were wrong.

[Mr. Brooks]

The Twins were only in the playoffs last year because of the 2nd wildcard spot created by owners to get more money for teams that don't have the money to compete with the LA, NY and CA's of the world.

 

Twins 2015 record: 83w - 79L. 12 games behind the Royals.

 

Some snippets from the MLBTR article:

 

"He spent most of 2015 in their bullpen, posting a 4.95 ERA, 7.5 K/9 and 3.0 BB/9 for the season"

 

"The Twins designated Graham for assignment last week after he allowed ten runs in 8 1/3 innings for Triple-A Rochester this season."

 

From another article: "5.10 ERA (4.63 FIP) in 65.1 career big league innings"

 

Sometimes a Rule 5 guy doesn't work out. Sometimes they REALLY don't.

 

The only thing I really see to get riled up about is: The Twins will actually get something for a pitcher with that poor of a record they DA'd a week or so ago. NY is sending him to AA ball.

If he didn't work out then remove him over the winter.

Why compound it by losing Zach Jones to protect him, only to cut him a month into the season?

[Brandon Warne]

 

And 1 mop up appearance this year convinced them he can't be?

 

He was getting throttled at Triple-A, too. Still a small sample size and this still feels like moving deck chairs on the Titanic, but...

[Guest]

One more question. Rochester and other minor league teams have a lot of retreads, like Runtzler, Boshers, Walden, who are older than Graham. Just signed Greenwood last week. Other system pitchers, like Wimmers, are also older and have been considered to have lower ceilings than Graham, who was just considered worthy of a year in the majors last year and another shot this year, after hearing all spring about how good he looked. Are the retained pitchers cheaper and/or better than Graham?

 

I get dumping Fien, even though the next guy up may not be any better, because it saves a few million $$, but Graham is a lot cheaper.

[Mr. Brooks]

He was getting throttled at Triple-A, too. Still a small sample size and this still feels like moving deck chairs on the Titanic, but...

Tiny sample size. Even a full season is pretty small sample size for a reliever, let alone a month.

 

To be clear, I don't have a problem moving on if they decided he'd never pan out.

My problem is throwing away Zach Jones first.

[Blake]

 

No.  Last season's performance plus this season's performance, including spring training, etc., convinced them that he cannot perform like Ryan Pressly.

 

It's like stringer bell said above: let's not look at every player who doesn't work out as sufficient evidence that Terry Ryan is the root of all evil.  That crap is getting really old around here.  Take a step back, people: most baseball prospects fail.  By a huge margin, in fact.  And that's true for every single MLB team.

 

I've got substantial problems with how this team is run, but we simply cannot have a freak out every time one player doesn't pan out.

I think it's a natural reaction to the multiple failures on the field and in the front office. Not excusing but I do understand.

[Shane Wahl]

 

This would make more sense, for a normal bad team, as a rule five gamble, had the Twins been a normal bad team last year.

But they weren't...they were in, or on the fringe of contention till the last weekend of the season. So they spent an entire season in contention wasting a bullpen spot on a rule five guy, essentially punting a 25 man roster spot.

Then decide a month into the following season that was no longer worth a 40 man spot, when contention is no longer a factor, and you would have time to further evaluate.

So somebody, somewhere, either made a real bad decision last year, or is making a bad one this year.

"No big deal, nothing to see here" is getting to be a bit of a tired rationale IMO.

Thank you for posting this so I don't have to post something much less eloquent and much more openly hostile. Because . . . good god.

[HitInAPinch]

 

If he didn't work out then remove him over the winter.
Why compound it by losing Zach Jones to protect him, only to cut him a month into the season?

This Zach Jones?

 

25 yrs old and started 2015 in A ball, moved to AA

 

April 21, 2016  Milwaukee Brewers transferred RHP Zack Jones from the 15-day disabled list to the 60-day disabled list. Right shoulder.

 

From a SB Nation article:

 

"The good news is that nearly 40% of Jones' at-bats end without a ball being put into play; the bad news is that nearly 40% of those at-bats end in walks. Jones strikes out a ton of batters --  he had an 11.85 K/9 in 2015 -- but it came with an ugly 4.88 BB/9."

 

2015  CHA  SOU  AA  3  2  6.00  27  0  0  0  10  12  27.0  24  18  18  3  1  18  0  30  .247  1.56  0.58
2015  FTM  FSL  A(Adv)  2  2  2.19  18  0  0  0  2  3  24.2  14  8  6  0  3  10  0  38  .157  0.97  0.68

 

I'm not wetting my drawers over him, either.

[Thrylos]

So: TR shot JR, or was it Antony?