Pot, Gay Marriage and Overturning the supreme court

[twinsnorth49]

"Hey man, I self medicate." Yeah I've heard that one before. Ask him again in 5-10 years if he feels the same way.

 

I don't want to get much deeper into the world's dumbest pissing contest but to be clear, the amount of pot I personally have consumed numbers in the xx-ounces, so I'm not basing my opinions on what I've seen of Cheech and Chong. It is true that regular users have burnt out receptors and so aren't as sensitive to THC, like with any drug.

 

I maintain there are no legitimate merits for 99% of people.

So your whole point is that it has no merits? How is this relevant? Never mind alcohol, you might as well criminalize half the food industry then too.

[formerly33]

I'm in favor of decriminalization.

 

 

   |  Willihammer, on 25 Sept 2015 - 4:01 PM, said:

   |  I maintain there are no legitimate merits for 99% of people.

 

So your whole point is that it has no merits? How is this relevant? Never mind alcohol, you might as well criminalize half the food industry then too.

 

Looks like someone's misinterpreting someone ... maybe intentionally, maybe not. But it's not Willihammer I'm speaking of.

[twinsnorth49]

 

Looks like someone's misinterpreting someone ... maybe intentionally, maybe not. But it's not Willihammer I'm speaking of.

That's what you came up with huh?

 

Read......it........slower...............this............time.

[formerly33]

 

That's what you came up with huh?

 

Read......it........slower...............this............time.

You are blowing Willihammer's views out of proportion. He is for decriminalization, and while I get your point about criminalizing half the food industry, I think it was a bit uncalled for in this situation. Why not say that to the person who thinks the system is perfectly fine as is? (When they say it.)

[twinsnorth49]

 

You are blowing Willihammer's views out of proportion. He is for decriminalization, and while I get your point about criminalizing half the food industry, I think it was a bit uncalled for in this situation. Why not say that to the person who thinks the system is perfectly fine as is? (When they say it.)

We're talking about merits, currently marijuana is criminalized, Coca-Cola, for example is not, the point is merits have nothing to do with it, criminalized or not.

 

Does that make you feel better? 

[formerly33]

 

We're talking about merits, currently marijuana is criminalized, Coca-Cola, for example is not, the point is merits have nothing to do with it, criminalized or not.

 

Does that make you feel better? 

No, because that's pretty much been my opinion all along. I think what Willihammer was trying to address was the stance that marijuana is beneficial.

 

Speaking of Coca-Cola, I'm certainly not for criminalizing it, but did you watch the video I posted yesterday?

[twinsnorth49]

 

No, because that's pretty much been my opinion all along. I think what Willihammer was trying to address was the stance that marijuana is beneficial.

 

Speaking of Coca-Cola, I'm certainly not for criminalizing it, but did you watch the video I posted yesterday?

You're missing the point (deliberately?). Anyhoo, back to the topic(s).

[USAFChief]

Willi: can you explain "decriminalization?"

 

Doesn't that still leave us spending billions on a futile attempt to stop the flow of pot, provide a huge financial incentive to bad guys, and leave potential tax revenues untapped?

[nicksaviking]

Honestly it's pretty hard to get "Stoned" off second hand smoke, that is one of those myths. But with that said, since it is illegal for kids under 18, I imagine the same sort of punishment would happen if a parent gave a toddler a beer. They would likely goto jail and potentially lose the kid.

 

But I don't know the exact punishments/laws.

Right, but a kids not getting drunk just because he's sitting next to dad who's having some beer. Maybe I'm misremembering college or perhaps I was easily susceptible, but I used to feel a noticeable buzz if if I was exposed to it (but not cool enough to be offered a hit).

 

And again, I'm not in favor of the current criminalization, just curious if anyone has heard discussions of my real only concern.

[nicksaviking]

So your whole point is that it has no merits? How is this relevant? Never mind alcohol, you might as well criminalize half the food industry then too.

And the sports car industry.

[PseudoSABR]

 

I maintain there are no legitimate merits for 99% of people.

There's no legit merits to potato chips! There's no legit merits to soap operas! There's no legitimate merits to breast implants!  Blah.  Blah.   In a country that values liberty, you don't judge the legality of things on whether they may or may not be beneficial (or because a few people are unwilling to see something's benefit).   And there's plenty of evidence that marijuana serves a variety of medical and non-medical purposes.  Really who the heck are you to judge?  Can you legitimately say that all your forms of entertainment and coping mechanisms have merit?  (I mean how the heck is the message board legal! Especially the "Sports Bar" forum!)

 

You'd be surprised how many successful, motivated, good-meaning people get stoned on a daily basis.   Undercutting the motives of pot smokers by proof of your own anecdotal experience is totally disingenuous. 

[Craig Arko]

[Willihammer]

 

Willi: can you explain "decriminalization?"

Doesn't that still leave us spending billions on a futile attempt to stop the flow of pot, provide a huge financial incentive to bad guys, and leave potential tax revenues untapped?

No, yes, yes. Tackle the problem from the demand side instead of the supply side by treating it as a public health problem, IMO.

[Willihammer]

 

So your whole point is that it has no merits? How is this relevant? Never mind alcohol, you might as well criminalize half the food industry then too.

The poster I quoted said he had a friend who used pot as a substitute for his ADD and ADHD medication.  "I would rather have a few hits than take advil for a headache any day of the week." I could be wrong, but that sounds like rationalizing to me. Complete BS, in other words.

 

Maybe my experiences have distorted my opinion on this topic but I have heard all kinds of justifications from people on why their drug use isn't a problem, ie. made up benefits of the drug, "its natural," etc. In reality the opposite is often true -they are just addicts and their physical and mental health is being harmed by continued use.

[DaveW]

 

Maybe I'm misremembering college or perhaps I was easily susceptible, but I used to feel a noticeable buzz if if I was exposed to it (but not cool enough to be offered a hit).

You were. Any "buzz" was pretty much in your head and psychosomatic ( I think I am using that word incorrectly but you get my point)

 

The "I only tested positive for pot because I was around it" has been proven false time and time again. Again, unless they are literally blowing it, into your face, and you are then breathing it in purposely or you are literally in a small and unventilated room you won't feel a physical effect. So, honestly, it's really easy to avoid "not getting high", if you sit in a tiny room with a bunch of smoke...I mean...you sorta know what you are getting into? no?

[DaveW]

 

 

 In reality the opposite is often true -they are just addicts and their physical and mental health is being harmed by continued use.

Except none of that is true. Especially the addicts and mental health parts.

[TheLeviathan]

Look, you can't pretend marijuana is some kind of magical drug with no side effects. As with anything, but especially a drug, constant use is bad for a person. You sound more and more like you deny it has negative connotations Dave.

 

What matters is that decriminalizing it will be better for everyone and the negatives with the drug pale compare to other already legal substances. But jeez, let's not play pretend, it's still a drug with significant ability to alter brain functioning.

[USAFChief]

So, honestly, it's really easy to avoid "not getting high",

Ain't it the truth.

[Squirrel]

 

Ain't it the truth.

Unfortunately.

 

Kidding. Mostly.

 

 

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Look, you can't pretend marijuana is some kind of magical drug with no side effects. As with anything, but especially a drug, constant use is bad for a person. You sound more and more like you deny it has negative connotations Dave.

What matters is that decriminalizing it will be better for everyone and the negatives with the drug pale compare to other already legal substances. But jeez, let's not play pretend, it's still a drug with significant ability to alter brain functioning.

Yep. I know several people who are complete burnouts because they smoked all the damned time.

 

I also know several people who are productive human beings and smoke several nights a week.

 

There are negatives to weed, just as there are negatives to any mind-altering chemical. I have yet to hear someone could up with a legitimate argument how weed is different than alcohol.

 

Given the enormous amount of cash involved here - both in taxes and reduced expenditures fighting illegal drug importation - I don't understand why anyone is against the legalization of marijuana in 2015. It makes all the sense in the world... And this is coming from a person who can't stand the stuff and thinks it's one of the most boring highs I've ever felt while under the influence of a drug.

[diehardtwinsfan]

I haven't really weighed in on this, and I've never smoked pot, but in a society that values freedom, I really fail to see how it is that we have made a plant illegal.  I get that some people will go overboard with it.  That's true of alcohol, tobacco, sports, porn, and pretty much anything legal.  It's not my job as a citizen to protect you from yourself.  It's your job to do that.  If you want to smoke pot, then go ahead and smoke it.  I see no reason to punish the 99% of the country who will do this responsibly for the 1% who will not (and I might add for the most part already do so irresponsibly). 

 

Let's also not pretend pot is some magical drug.  It certainly, like alcohol, has some health benefits that in moderation can easily offset the health risks, and it without question can be useful for people recovering from injuries, but it isn't a wonder drug either. 

 

It's probably better for you then a lot of perscription drugs that the pharma industry sells us (with more reasonable side-affects), and that gets to the heart of the issue with pot.  It amounts to direct competition in several very lucrative industries (pharma and textiles are the big ones).  That's why it's illegal, and it's time for that to change.

[DaveW]

 

Look, you can't pretend marijuana is some kind of magical drug with no side effects. As with anything, but especially a drug, constant use is bad for a person. You sound more and more like you deny it has negative connotations Dave.

What matters is that decriminalizing it will be better for everyone and the negatives with the drug pale compare to other already legal substances. But jeez, let's not play pretend, it's still a drug with significant ability to alter brain functioning.

The positive connotations significantly outweigh the "negative" connotations, especially when you compare it to other "legal" drugs such as alcohol. I have never heard of alcohol being prescribed to a patient to treat an ailment.

 

Yes, if someone smokes multiple times a day it can lead to some health issues (not nearly as bad as cigs btw), but for 99% of the users there is no real health risk/issue.

[DaveW]

 

Yep. I know several people who are complete burnouts because they smoked all the damned time.

 

There are negatives to weed, just as there are negatives to any mind-altering chemical. I have yet to hear someone could up with a legitimate argument how weed is different than alcohol.

Those people are "burnouts" because they are in fact lazy and lack motivation. If it wasn't for pot they would be sitting on their asses watching TV or something else that fails to contribute to society.

 

Weed is so much insanely safer then Alcohol, just look at the number of drunk drivers, domestic abuse (involving alcohol), Rape, Date Rape, overdoses/alcohol posioning (There has never been a "weed" overdose, while 50,000 die every year from alcohol posioning and countless more from eventual liver failure)

 

Alcohol has so many more problems then weed and it isn't even close. Hell, fast food is insanely less healthy and causes more issues to a person who smokes weed once a day.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Those people are "burnouts" because they are in fact lazy and lack motivation. If it wasn't for pot they would be sitting on their asses watching TV or something else that fails to contribute to society.

 

Weed is so much insanely safer then Alcohol, just look at the number of drunk drivers, domestic abuse (involving alcohol), Rape, Date Rape, overdoses/alcohol posioning (There has never been a "weed" overdose, while thousands die every year from alcohol posioning)

 

Alcohol has so many more problems then weed and it isn't even close. Hell, fast food is insanely less healthy and causes more issues to a person who smokes weed once a day.

 

Look, no one is arguing alcohol is worse.  Just that you not pretend weed is some healthy super drug.

 

It has harmful effects as well, just not nearly enough to warrant criminalization.

[ashbury]

 I have never heard of alcohol being prescribed to a patient to treat an ailment.

Back during Prohibition? I think it was considered to be a useful sedative, calming the jangled nerves, and so forth. At about the same level of medical competence as currently is willing to say give pot a try for what ails ya', son.

[DaveW]

 

Back during Prohibition? I think it was considered to be a useful sedative, calming the jangled nerves, and so forth. At about the same level of medical competence as currently is willing to say give pot a try for what ails ya', son.

Except there have been proven studies that show that pot actually helps in a myraid of different "real" illnesses, such as Glaucoma, Cancer etc.

[twinsnorth49]

Back during Prohibition? I think it was considered to be a useful sedative, calming the jangled nerves, and so forth. At about the same level of medical competence as currently is willing to say give pot a try for what ails ya', son.

I'd have to dispute that one Ash. You may be right about doctors recommending it back then but the scientific studies backing the benefits of marijuana today are significantly more valid than anything done back then involving alcohol.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

I'd have to dispute that one Ash. You may be right about doctors recommending it back then but the scientific studies backing the benefits of marijuana today are significantly more valid than anything done back then involving alcohol.

Canada's election, twinsnorth49. Your thoughts.

[twinsnorth49]

Canada's election, twinsnorth49. Your thoughts.

Monumental day for Canada in electing an overwhelming Liberal majority. The election was really as much about change and Canadians ridding themselves of the divisive politics of fear brought about by Stephen Harper as much as it was about young Mr. Trudeau. . Most encouragingly, it was a rejection of negative, hate politics, you could really feel in the last week of the election that the electorate was sick of the attack ads promoted by the Conservatives towards Trudeau. I honestly feel the majority of Canadians felt the ads and the style of Harper were beneath them, and they voted overwhelmingly in that fashion.

 

Harper vastly underestimated the middle vote, he took for granted the number of Tories who purely voted for him due to a lack of a real home, the Liberals have been in disarray since the sponsorship scandal of 2004 and left many middle Canadians without an alternative. The NDP vote was an aberration in the last election and really more a matter of Quebec rejecting Harper as a voice in the province. Small c Conservatives have always had an uneasy alliance with the further right Harper Conservatives, his autocratic style led to illusions of unity, but today, when presented with a opportunity to rediscover a more natural home, they took it and left the Harper Conservatives in tatters

 

I'm hopeful for Trudeau, his father is one of the greatest Canadians in history in my view. He's different than Pierre, which is good, but he also has that same, broad, unifying belief in Canada that his father stood for. He's much more relatable though, he's sincere and people want him to be the type of PM he speaks of being.

 

I'm a Liberal, although I believe the country needs the occasional checks and balances brought about by Conservative governments, I view the Liberals as the natural governing party of this country. The Harper government was an embarrassment to me, he didn't represent the Canada I identify with, I'm glad he's gone and looking forward to a refreshing new voice.

 

Sorry if that was more than you bargained for.

 

I feel the sudden urge to watch the Wizard of Oz for some reason. Must be on Netflix eh?

[Squirrel]

I have a copy you can borrow.

 

It would be too much to hope for for the U.S. to follow suit.

 

Congrats, Canada! It would have been interesting to still be living there with positive change ... although that would have meant living through Harper.