Gophers Football

[Mr. Brooks]

Seriously?

 

OK I guess I'll play along. Maybe it's suggesting that just about every other coach that's been around rebuilding a new program struggles in the first few years? 4 prime examples related directly and indirectly to the U is not enough?

 

Rose Bowl. I was just trying to be as unrealistic as a few other here.

Can you point to the unrealistic expectations in here? Is being competitive with an 0-6 Nebraska team really an unrealistic expectation?

[Badsmerf]

They won! I didn't get to watch it, but from the recap it seems they were killing it, then stumbled in the fourth, but pulled it out with a beautiful throw and catch. Next week should be winnable too. After that, if Fleck finds a way to beat Wisconsin, I call it a good season.

[Vanimal46]

Hmm. Had no idea they were playing on a Friday night. Why was that?

[Mr. Brooks]

Well, seems like a step in the right direction, at least.

Now let's see if it's something they build on, or just an isolated incident.

[stringer bell]

For about 40 playing minutes, the Gophers looked like a competent college football team. The other 20 minutes were really, really bad.

 

There is talent there. I think the coach is more than a motivational speaker/salesman, but there is a long way to go.

[Mr. Brooks]

Also, it looks like they might have just found their quarterback.

[Badsmerf]

Also, it looks like they might have just found their quarterback.

Yeah.... That ball at three end was very nicely thrown. I thought we were going to see more of Morgan earlier in the season. Indiana isn't a barometer, but I'd stick with him for sure after this game.

[Mike Sixel]

I had no idea they were playing last night! Glad they won. 

[TheLeviathan]

At the very least Morgan needs lots of playing time.

 

I read Tracy Claeys say Seth Green would be his QB this year....did that man ever see him throw?  How was he ever a QB for anyone?

 

Nice win, need 2 more of them this year.

[mngopherguy]

 

I'm not debating this with you until this season is over. You think Fleck took over the same types of programs as Kill and Mason, and that Mason had the same facilities. We obviously don't have the same expectations.

 

Please show me where I said Mason had the same facilities....  

[mngopherguy]

 

You mean the Ohio St. that got destroyed by a Purdue program whose staff was hired the same year as Fleck, and was maybe the worst program in the country when they took over?

And I assume it's just coincidence that you left off Nebraska, who was 0-6 when they played us?

You also didn't answer my question. That's my problem. I'm willing to be patient, but nobody will put a concrete expectation on paper. And I suspect they won't do it because they want to continue to defend Fleck no matter what the results are, no matter how long they continue.
They can't do that if they commit to an expectation and it's not met.

 

I answered your question, they were within ten points against Ohio St. with 2 minutes left.  Why does it now matter that they lost to Purdue?  Quit moving the goal posts.

 

Since you brought up Purdue, yeah Brohm is an awesome coach and the other top coach everyone was looking at with Fleck.  Purdue strangely is 4-4 just like the Gophers.  Purdue even lost to a lousy Eastern Michigan team.  Interesting you should praise one and rip the other with the same record isn't it?  Motives?

[mngopherguy]

 

Hmm. Had no idea they were playing on a Friday night. Why was that?

 

TV runs the world.  The teams's don't have a say, although I suspect a few other here will blame Fleck lol.

[mngopherguy]

 

At the very least Morgan needs lots of playing time.

 

I read Tracy Claeys say Seth Green would be his QB this year....did that man ever see him throw?  How was he ever a QB for anyone?

 

Nice win, need 2 more of them this year.

 

He was a good QB for East Ridge, but I completely agree at this level.  Very smart of Seth to embrace his role instead of just sitting on the bench.  

 

2 more wins would be huge for all the extra practice time.  I really hate that rule.  I said before the season six wins would be a good number for this team.  

 

Edited October 27, 2018 by mngopherguy

[Mr. Brooks]

I answered your question, they were within ten points against Ohio St. with 2 minutes left. Why does it now matter that they lost to Purdue? Quit moving the goal posts.

 

Since you brought up Purdue, yeah Brohm is an awesome coach and the other top coach everyone was looking at with Fleck. Purdue strangely is 4-4 just like the Gophers. Purdue even lost to a lousy Eastern Michigan team. Interesting you should praise one and rip the other with the same record isn't it? Motives?

At the time of my post, Purdue was 3-1, the Gophers were 0-4.

Non conference records can't be used for comparison. The talent level is too vast.

 

It matters what Purdue did to Ohio State because that shows that Ohio State isn't any good, which makes hanging with them for 3 quarters meaningless.

 

You still haven't answered my question. How many Big 10 wins are reasonable to expect next year?

[mngopherguy]

 

At the time of my post, Purdue was 3-1, the Gophers were 0-4.
Non conference records can't be used for comparison. The talent level is too vast.

It matters what Purdue did to Ohio State because that shows that Ohio State isn't any good, which makes hanging with them for 3 quarters meaningless.

You still haven't answered my question. How many Big 10 wins are reasonable to expect next year?

 

LOL, keep changing the rules to fit your narrative.  

 

How would anyone know what will happen next year now?  Injuries, players leaving early, recruiting classes, transfers.  Stupid question.  

 

[Mr. Brooks]

When you're down to insulting me instead of responding, then it's time for us to be finished with this conversation.

[biggentleben]

From someone who was part of that transition, there's been no coach handed a worse hand in the last 20 years than was Glen Mason. Mason brought the program farther than any coach has really since the 1960s. He struggled, however, to get the team from the second tier to the first tier in the Big 10. Folks thought that was on the coach, disposed of him, and since, plenty of work has been done to try to improve the edges of the program while not addressing that a competent coach was a huge issue. I truly believe that without his health issues, Kill was on his way there.

 

The University ponies up for basketball and hockey. Instead of looking for the young, trendy coach...instead, why not go the route done with Mason and Kill, guys who took over programs at lower levels and showed sustained success (Fleck's quick rise is not sustained). Mason had built up Kansas before coming to the Gophers. Those are the guys who can walk in the door and coach. You want to recruit? Call in Tony Dungy, Ben Hamilton, Darrell Thompson, Eric Decker, and Marion Barber to walk into living rooms with you. Moreover, call in someone like Ben Utecht to come into a living room with you.

 

Frankly, it's filtering more and more back to high school how insignificant the facilities you see truly are. Most impressive will be proper training facilities and medical facilities, not the lounges and oversized video rooms that were the focus of the most recent upgrades for the Gophers. You want to know why a number of smaller schools haul in some surprising recruits, look at the number of their strength coaches and/or athletic trainers that end up moving on to the NFL or other pro leagues. That's a significant piece for young people who know they are sacrificing their bodies for the betterment of a millionaire coach with no return for them most likely. Shiny toys attract the type of players who go out on Saturday and are not focused, cannot execute, and simply don't put the time in where it should be (the weight room and practice field rather than a lounge), so they fall apart whenever pressure is applied or they run into even comparable talent.

 

One of the hallmarks of both Mason and Kill was the commentary about how obvious it was that their team was the less talented team on the field, but typically either right in the game or winning it. The raw talent complaint is not one that can be made right now. As far as I'm concerned, that goes to one spot...

[mngopherguy]

 

When you're down to insulting me instead of responding, then it's time for us to be finished with this conversation.

 

You've repeatedly shown your ignorance regarding the situation.  I've answered all questions about this season, then you change the rules.  you wouldn't answer a question on the number of wins for the Twins next year without knowing free agents etc for each team at least in the division, yet you troll me for the same info here.  That's insulting.  

[mngopherguy]

 

From someone who was part of that transition, there's been no coach handed a worse hand in the last 20 years than was Glen Mason. Mason brought the program farther than any coach has really since the 1960s. He struggled, however, to get the team from the second tier to the first tier in the Big 10. Folks thought that was on the coach, disposed of him, and since, plenty of work has been done to try to improve the edges of the program while not addressing that a competent coach was a huge issue. I truly believe that without his health issues, Kill was on his way there.

 

The University ponies up for basketball and hockey. Instead of looking for the young, trendy coach...instead, why not go the route done with Mason and Kill, guys who took over programs at lower levels and showed sustained success (Fleck's quick rise is not sustained). Mason had built up Kansas before coming to the Gophers. Those are the guys who can walk in the door and coach. You want to recruit? Call in Tony Dungy, Ben Hamilton, Darrell Thompson, Eric Decker, and Marion Barber to walk into living rooms with you. Moreover, call in someone like Ben Utecht to come into a living room with you.

 

Frankly, it's filtering more and more back to high school how insignificant the facilities you see truly are. Most impressive will be proper training facilities and medical facilities, not the lounges and oversized video rooms that were the focus of the most recent upgrades for the Gophers. You want to know why a number of smaller schools haul in some surprising recruits, look at the number of their strength coaches and/or athletic trainers that end up moving on to the NFL or other pro leagues. That's a significant piece for young people who know they are sacrificing their bodies for the betterment of a millionaire coach with no return for them most likely. Shiny toys attract the type of players who go out on Saturday and are not focused, cannot execute, and simply don't put the time in where it should be (the weight room and practice field rather than a lounge), so they fall apart whenever pressure is applied or they run into even comparable talent.

 

One of the hallmarks of both Mason and Kill was the commentary about how obvious it was that their team was the less talented team on the field, but typically either right in the game or winning it. The raw talent complaint is not one that can be made right now. As far as I'm concerned, that goes to one spot...

 

I agree with most of this.  I do think Mason had it the worst in many ways.  I also questioned his desire at times towards the end.  I think if he wouldn't have been so stubborn he would have succeeded even more. I also think Kill would have the team winning 8+ games most years. I question if he would have been able to do more with his recruiting at the level it was.  No question in my mind though, these are Minnesota's two best coaches in my lifetime.   

 

Fleck had talent left, quality but no quantity.  The fact only 54 of 112 kids are soph'sand above.  Expecting 18 year old's to beat 20-21 year old's across the board is just not going to happen.  

 

Fleck's recruiting has already shown improvement.  How can a person not be very impressed with Freshmen like Bateman, Williams, Smith, Faalele, Morgan, Annexstad?  I'm assuming you are still also around the program, so are you not excited about Reigelsberger, Dunlap, and Sapp?  I'm anxious to see if the two JUCO DT's can fill in Smith;s shoes.  

 

What this program needs is three straight years of recruits like this.  That builds depth, decreases the chances of freshmen needing to play.  Coughlin is a stud, we need a Coughlin recruited every one-two years.  Dline is what holds most teams back from competing.  Dline is where SEC teams are far superior than most other teams.  

 

Fleck is extremely well thought of by many in the business.  The only other head coach I've seen who the players love to this level was coach Kill.  Practices are effective and well run, which again reminds me of Kill.  Actually Fleck reminds me a lot of Kill except for the way the message is stated.  Elite instead of aw shucks.  

 

The offense is getting better and more consistently looks like a Big Ten offense.  Many of the players on offense were brought in by Fleck.  Only a few linemen and Johnson are starters he did not bring in.  

 

Defense is an issue. Coughlin and Cashman have been great.  Barber has been okay, better DT play would certainly help him.  The secondary was short on depth to begin with and it shows each week.  Terrell Smith is already their best CB.  Secondary needs to be addressed in the next two years recruiting.  

 

Dungy and Utecht especially are amazing people.  You are not going to get Dungy in anyone's living room though.  He's not going to do it.  Utecht might, although I'm not sure he has the same kind of clout. I will say as a Hastings resident, I'll tell you Ben is truly loved here.  Kids grow up wanting to be like Ben on the field or ice, parents hope they grow up like Ben off it.  

[ashbury]

When you're down to insulting me instead of responding, then it's time for us to be finished with this conversation.

 

You've repeatedly shown your ignorance regarding the situation.   

Moderator's note: The bickering has gone to an unacceptably personal level, and needs to stop. Probably best if both parties drop this tangent since agreement isn't on the horizon.

[Vanimal46]

The defense is embarrassing... After this game I don't think they win the rest of the season.

[Badsmerf]

Anybody watch the game today? I thought this was the last winnable big ten game. The only saving grace for this season is a win against Bucky.

[TheLeviathan]

The defensive coaches are not impressive.  Young or not, there is enough talent to show better than this.

[D. Hocking]

I am fairly confident I could have scored a touchdown against the Gopher defense yesterday.

[Badsmerf]

At least fleck was honest post game.

[Vanimal46]

I am fairly confident I could have scored a touchdown against the Gopher defense yesterday.

We all could have. Illinois had enough time to drive a Mack semi through the running lanes they created yesterday.

[Mr. Brooks]

Is this still progress?

[Badsmerf]

Is this still progress?

Progress to the next AD and football coach. Won't be sorry to see Coyle gone.

[Vanimal46]

Well, we're making progress knowing this D coordinator needs to go immediately after the season. And I think if Fleck is going to make it in a power conference he needs to hire a former head coach or 2 to lead both units.

[TheLeviathan]

Nope, not progress.  They are taking heat and rightfully so, that was a terrible effort.