Ervin Santana for Jose Reyes?

[DaveW]

Reyes cleared waivers, the Rockies clearly will look to get rid of him with Story knocking on the door. No team is going to give up any real assets for Reyes, which brings me to....

If you are Ryan do you offer Santana for Reyes straight up? Both are owed similar money, but Santana has a good chance to hit his IP requirement to make his 2019 option guaranteed, while Reyes would only be around for 2016 and 2017 (4 mil buyout in 2018)

 

Reyes fills a need for the Twins for the next couple years and lets them walk away from the Santana mistake of a contract. Typically players aren't traded in the first year of deals, but I think an exception can be made when said player was busted for roids before he ever pitched a game for the team (thus no bad feelings around the league amongst agents and players)

 

For his troubles, Santana has proven to be at least solid in his career and could help a Rockies rotation that is currently a mess and full of unproven pitchers.

 

The Twins allow one more spot open in the rotation for May, Berrios etc to take advantage of as well. (NTM when Nolasco is back and healthy)

Thoughts?

[Cap'n Piranha]

I don't know why the Rockies would do this deal.  I'd be fine with it, I just can't envision the Rockies saying yes to the straight-up offer proposed.

[Platoon]

I doubt Terry Ryan would do a trade for Jose Reyes, he doesn't seem to fit the Twins mold or clubhouse choirboy that he likes so much.>>>>> It does certainly cut down on your list of available trade prospects, if they either have to be members of the Mormon Tabernacle Choir, or at least appear to be!

[SwainZag]

 

I don't know why the Rockies would do this deal.  I'd be fine with it, I just can't envision the Rockies saying yes to the straight-up offer proposed.

I'm in the same boat.  With them having the same amount of money owed to them, while Reyes's contract is up a year early, I don't see why it would be appealing.  Especially when you factor in the PED suspension and the early results on Santana this season.

[Seth Stohs]

Wayyyyy too soon togive up on Santana. Maybe if he stinks for the first 6 weeks next year, we can worry. 

 

The Rockies, however, wouldn't do it. The reason they dealt Tulowitzki was for salary relief and prospects, not for another long-term deal on a veteran.

[Vanimal46]

I would think the Rockies need a little more than that. If a trade like that went through, essentially they traded Tulo for Ervin, and 3-4 prospects that I can't recall their names without looking it up.

 

From the Twins perspective, absolutely make that deal. It will be interesting to see who the fan base despises more in the future, E. Santana, Nolasco, or Hughes.

[jimbo92107]

 

Wayyyyy too soon togive up on Santana. Maybe if he stinks for the first 6 weeks next year, we can worry. 

 

The Rockies, however, wouldn't do it. The reason they dealt Tulowitzki was for salary relief and prospects, not for another long-term deal on a veteran.

Ervin Santana is a smooth pitcher. He's having some rough spots right now, but this guy is too good to stay down for long. I would not dump this guy, certainly not right now.

[halfchest]

yah, too soon to give up on Santana.  but that said, sure I'd take this shot, it gives a couple years to see if Gordon can develop into our future guy and frees up some future money when our prospects start hitting arbitration. 

 

I'm assuming that the Rockies would want one decent prospect for him too though. Maybe Hu?  oh yah wait, nevermind . . .

[DaveW]

 

Wayyyyy too soon togive up on Santana. Maybe if he stinks for the first 6 weeks next year, we can worry. 

 

The Rockies, however, wouldn't do it. The reason they dealt Tulowitzki was for salary relief and prospects, not for another long-term deal on a veteran.

What if he stinks the last 6 weeks of this year? That isn't a cause for concern? He has struck out like 3 of his last 80 something batters, that makes Nick Blackburn look like the big unit.

 

He is currently sporting the worst k/9 of his career, worst bb/9 of his career and worse HR/9 of his career, he is 32 and was busted earlier  this year for Roids. Worry may not be the right word, but there is definitely cause for concern moving fwd with him.

[DaveW]

 

 

 

The Rockies, however, wouldn't do it. The reason they dealt Tulowitzki was for salary relief and prospects, not for another long-term deal on a veteran.

They got more prospects for Tulo because they were willing to take on the Reyes contract. Reyes doesn't have any real trade value currently, in any trade they would have to eat the majority of the contract to even get back a C level prospect for him at this point.

 

So the Rockies basically have three options:

1. Keep Reyes (Story remains blocked)

2. Trade Reyes and at least 30 million to a team for a C level prospect

3. Trade Reyes for another bad contract (that could fill a need in a bigger area for them i.e. SP)

 

I think they have no desire in 1, and finding a partner for "2" is difficult. Santana for Reyes I think makes a good amount of sense for them.

[DaveW]

 

 

yah, too soon to give up on Santana.  but that said, sure I'd take this shot, it gives a couple years to see if Gordon can develop into our future guy and frees up some future money when our prospects start hitting arbitration. 

 

I'm assuming that the Rockies would want one decent prospect for him too though. Maybe Hu?  oh yah wait, nevermind . . .

Toss in a UTIL guy like Polanco, Escobar or Santana? Or anyone outside the top 25 in the Twins system, I would be fine with that as well.

[Vanimal46]

The honey moon phase ended quickly for Jose Reyes and the Colorado Rockies. Judging by this article, Reyes will quickly accept any trade to a contender, and the Rockies will try to unload his this offseason as they rebuild. 

 

http://www.denverpost.com/rockies/ci_28686281/jaded-reyes-would-welcome-trade

 

Any new thoughts on potentially targeting him this winter? 

[Mike Sixel]

I would do that trade.....if you believe in Berrios and Duffey I would do that trade. The money is about the same, and they both have risks.

 

Why would CO do it? To get something of value for a guy that they don't need.......

 

No one is giving up a legit prospect for Reyes, he was in the deal because he has negative value, and that got them better prospects from Toronto. I'm very confused by some of these responses.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I would think the Rockies need a little more than that. If a trade like that went through, essentially they traded Tulo for Ervin, and 3-4 prospects that I can't recall their names without looking it up.

From the Twins perspective, absolutely make that deal. It will be interesting to see who the fan base despises more in the future, E. Santana, Nolasco, or Hughes.

 

Reyes has negative value, he was in there to get more from TOR, not less......

[JustinCB]

Not even really that much of an improvement over Escobar, tbh.

[nicksaviking]

I question how long Reyes has left. 

 

But I would do anything to get out from under any or all of the Santana, Hughes or Nolasco contracts.  I'd do it in a heartbeat.  Current money left for both players plus buyouts: Reyes 48M, Santana 41.5M.  I'd throw in more money if the Rockies have better offers to eat the Reyes contract, I doubt the Twins would though.

 

Maybe Nolasco, who's contract is shorter and cheaper and who's sinkerball is more desired in Coors would actually be more attractive.

 

I want these vets out of the rotation to make way for the young guys so bad.  The team will be better for it in the long run, even if it means eating money now. 

[SF Twins Fan]

I'd rather keep playing Escobar for the next couple of seasons at SS and see what they have in Gordon. He's still relatively young at around 26, under team control, cheap, great teammate (which you can't say for Reyes after this article just came out of him whining), can play multiple positions if needed, can hit if given enough at bats and plays average defense. I'd take that over an aging, poor defensive and expensive Reyes any day of the week.

 

Gordon has been playing great the last couple of months.  I believe this is his first full season in the minors and will likely start next season in high A ball and depending on how he plays could potentially move up to at least AA by seasons end.  Once a player gets to AA they could be in the majors shortly after that if they prove themselves.

[Mike Sixel]

Nick Gordon won't be here in 2016, and I'd bet good money not 2017.

 

I can buy the argument he might not be better than Escobar, but,

 

It's not just getting Reyes, it's getting Berrios into the rotation......

[big dog]

 

The honey moon phase ended quickly for Jose Reyes and the Colorado Rockies. Judging by this article, Reyes will quickly accept any trade to a contender, and the Rockies will try to unload his this offseason as they rebuild. 

 

http://www.denverpost.com/rockies/ci_28686281/jaded-reyes-would-welcome-trade

 

Any new thoughts on potentially targeting him this winter? 

Based on that link- it sounds like he would be a problem if the Twins get off to a slow start next spring.  Basically he wants to be traded to a 95-win team that needs a rapidly aging, frequently-injured shortstop who is paid far more than his market.  I wish him luck.

[nicksaviking]

 

Nick Gordon won't be here in 2016, and I'd bet good money not 2017.

 

I can buy the argument he might not be better than Escobar, but,

 

It's not just getting Reyes, it's getting Berrios into the rotation......

 

Exactly.  You could substitue Reyes for a Big Mac or a Ford Escort or Bobby Bonilla's perpetual contract.  I don't care what we get, I just want to make room in the rotation.

[nicksaviking]

 

 

Based on that link- it sounds like he would be a problem if the Twins get off to a slow start next spring.  Basically he wants to be traded to a 95-win team that needs a rapidly aging, frequently-injured shortstop who is paid far more than his market.  I wish him luck.

 

Maybe he'll be a problem, but I'll take clubhouse whining over a rotation full of aging pitchers, and I'm not too concerned that he'd be a whiner.  He was traded from a playoff contender to one of the worst teams in the league, that probably hasn't sat well with any veteran, ever.  In the current standings, and future outlook, the Twins and Rockies are miles apart.  Despite my contrarian view, Reyes would be playing meaningful baseball with the Twins.

[Tecmo]

Eduardo Escobar is arguably a better shortstop at this point than Reyes. He's put up similar offensive numbers and his defense is far better. I don't foresee anyone blocking Berrios from the rotation next season. 

[DJL44]

 

Basically he wants to be traded to a 95-win team that needs a rapidly aging, frequently-injured shortstop who is paid far more than his market.  I wish him luck.

 

So, Dodgers or bust?

[SwainZag]

 

Nick Gordon won't be here in 2016, and I'd bet good money not 2017.

 

I can buy the argument he might not be better than Escobar, but,

 

It's not just getting Reyes, it's getting Berrios into the rotation......

 

It's not the only way to get Berrios into the rotation, there are several variables there.  

[big dog]

 

 Despite my contrarian view, Reyes would be playing meaningful baseball with the Twins.

I certainly hope you are right.  I would be very happy to upgrade SS, if he's reasonably healthy.

[Vanimal46]

I can see the viewpoint of declining on Reyes, because I was anti-Reyes as well at the deadline.

 

But it's something to ponder on an off day. And if his next trade is a pure salary dump for salary dump, I would certainly try throwing out Nolasco or Santana to get out of those contracts.

 

And me personally, I'm just not buying into Escobar yet as the SS of the present or future.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Exactly. You could substitue Reyes for a Big Mac or a Ford Escort or Bobby Bonilla's perpetual contract. I don't care what we get, I just want to make room in the rotation.

Im sorry but this thinking is fundamentally flawed. A team shouldn't pick up a bad, overpaid shortstop just so they can offload a bad, overpaid pitcher and clear room for a young, underpaid pitcher.

 

Just cut the pitcher and leave Reyes out of this idea entirely.

[Mike Sixel]

Brock, they aren't cutting one of these guys.

[nicksaviking]

Im sorry but this thinking is fundamentally flawed. A team shouldn't pick up a bad, overpaid shortstop just so they can offload a bad, overpaid pitcher and clear room for a young, underpaid pitcher.

Just cut the pitcher and leave Reyes out of this idea entirely.

Fine by me. I have hard believing the front office would eat a two, three or four year contract though. They'll want something to show for it, even if it's mostly ceremonial.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Brock, they aren't cutting one of these guys.

I have a sneaking suspicion they're not afraid to cut Nolasco if he continues to drag down the team. The Twins are now a winning ball club and Ricky Nolasco has only brought negative value since he arrived 18 months ago. Add in Ricky's suspect behavior and attitude since he signed the deal and I think you have a situation where he could be released or traded relatively soon.

 

But Santana? No, they won't cut him.