Best Hitting Coach in System

[BoomBoom]

As I watch our prospects work thru the system and either make it to the MLB level or fall short, I ask who has been their biggest influence in terms of a hitting coach.  It is easy to overlook the lower level coaches because prospects are not MLB ready and thus "who cares".  Upper level coaches get a lot of credit if the player flourishes and not enough blame if they don't (IMO).  That being said - Who in the Twins system over the last 4 to 5 years has had the greatest influence on our young prospects.  Who has made the great players greater and who has made the average players better?  Who seems to have the greatest connection personality wise to maximize the prospects potential?

 

Tim Doherty is in AAA and sometimes gets to affect a prospects potential following AA and sometimes has to wait for them to come back down to him after their AA to MLB promotional failure (ala HIcks).  He has done a solid job producing quality hitters from non top prospects and returning Top prospects.

 

Chad Allen has enjoyed the most Top prospects at the upper levels in AA.  Although many of those prospects have moved on in his tenure, not all of them have flourished right away.  Buxton struggled initially.  Sano struggled initially in New Brittian and Chattanooga.  Arcia was excellent throughout his minor league career.  Kepler has flourished under Allen.  Rosario struggled early.  All of these players success can be contributed to Allen or time in the Arizona Fall League or even natural skill level.

 

Jim Dwyer has probably had as much success with Top prospect as any of the hitting coaches in the system.  Buxton flourished, Sano flourished, Vargas flourished.  Many flourished in their time spent in with Dwyer.  Although many of them stumble out the gates when they get promoted mid season or next season.

 

Tommy Watkins is probably the most overlooked hitting coach, but has arguably had the best results in terms allowing players to do what they do best.  Almost every Top prospect who has played for Watkins has flourished in the areas that have made them special (contact or power).  I can't recall any prospect who tried to change what "they do" (skill set), yet all seemed to have flourished in their skill set and in the other areas of development.  Buxton became baseballs gloden boy under Watkins.  Sano continued bashing under Watkins.  Rosario was a hitting machine under Watkins in Beloit.  Harrison hit 15 HRs and kept his high OBP.  Walker had a 20% K rate under Watkins and still hit 27 HRs.  Polanco had 78 RBI and walked as much as he struck out.  DJ Hicks led all of baseball in RBIs.  Sometimes pedigree is not as important as knowing what motivates each prospect on an individual level.  Watkins always got results.

 

All this being said:  Who do you think is our best Hitting Coach and Why?

Is it a philosophy or is it about knowing each players strengths and weaknesses?

[ashbury]

Excellent question, and I look forward to some knowledgeable counterpoints to the ones you made.

[jimbo92107]

If Tommy Watkins actually got AB Walker's K rate down to 20 percent, the Twins should pay him to be Walker's personal hitting coach. If he can cook, that's just a bonus.

[BoomBoom]

Not just getting Walker down from 30% K rate to 20% K rate, but all of these accomplishments are things we haven't seen since Watkins worked with them.  Polanco high RBI & BB numbers - Harrison double digit HR numbers - Hicks triple digit RBI numbers, etc., etc..

 

Harrison hit 15 HRs and kept his high OBP.  Walker had a 20% K rate under Watkins and still hit 27 HRs.  Polanco had 78 RBI and walked as much as he struck out.  DJ Hicks led all of baseball in RBIs.

 

 

[Rosterman]

That's tough because of the way some have moved around (Watkins, for example) and the system does have guidelines set by the minor staff coordinators and such. Riccardo Ingram helped a lot of these guys. Many were blessed with close work from Tony Oliva and Paul Molitor. The managers themselves can help hitters, from Jake Mauer to Dougie Mientkiewicz. You have had Smith and Reed at Elizabethton forever. 

[Thegrin]

I don't know who the best hitting coaches or pitching coaches are in the Twins system. However, it always seemed to me that the best hitting and pitching and fielding coaches should be minor league coaches and they should also be amongst the best paid coaches in any system. 

I wonder how many good players have been lost thru mediocre or incompetent coaching ?

 

I wonder what the "best practices" are amongst coaches?  I've heard that Bruno has some great power hitting drills.  Are these same drills being used throughout the system ? If not, why not?

 

I wonder how much attention is being paid to the "makeup" of the players ?  Considering the potential value of the players, shouldn't they all be given psychological counseling starting the moment they enter the system ? Why let players "figure things out" on their own ?  Having someone professional to talk to could be the difference between having a Major League career or just being a prospect.  

 

 

[diehardtwinsfan]

I really think that one of the next big advancements in the baseball communities will be a proper evaluation of coaches.  Regressing to the mean isn't as much luck as it is adjustments, and often times it is a coach that helps with that.  I have no idea which of these guys is good and is not good (though Watkins and Allen were both flash in the plan type players with a similar skillsets that managed to outperform their expectations), but I do think that coaching is very underrated by the SABR community as they tend to just chalk it all up to regression to the mean and luck. 

 

On the flip side, no doubt that player talent plays into this a lot.  I don't think it's quite like football where a washout in one system can be a pro-bowler in another, but I do think that good coaching can help a guy tap into that potential. 

[Seth Stohs]

Tough question... and obviously they're all good. I have known Tommy for 5 years now, and I really think he does a good job. He is very optimistic and encouraging, but he is also technical. I've heard some of Chad Allen's philosophies and talked to him once, and it's hard to argue with any of that. Dwyer has been around for a long time. Tim Doherty was an unknown when they hired him, but he seems to be doing a nice job as well.

 

It's hard to know because a good hitting coach doesn't necessarily mean the players will perform. 

 

All I look for is that they have a sense of good technique, but realize that everyone is different. And, willingness to try creative things. Willingness to use video, etc.

 

Can't really ask for much more.

[DJSim22]

Shouldn't all hitting coaches in the organization have the same approach?  The personalities would differ making some more comfortable with one coach or another, but the approach should be the same.

[BoomBoom]

Shouldn't all hitting coaches in the organization have the same approach? The personalities would differ making some more comfortable with one coach or another, but the approach should be the same.

Players have different abilities and I think you should work to those strengths while addressing their weaknesses along the way. Working towards their weaknesses and addressing their strengths sometimes takes away from their strengths IMO. I can bet that no one on this board actually has heard the Twins address an organizational Approach. We as fans talk about the lack of approach from players, but never really know what the prospect is told about his approach from hitting coach? We speculate based on what we know about baseball. We hear about it when players are demoted from the MLB, but never while in minor leagues.

 

For instance: taking pitches and working count is great if they are not throwing you a ton of strikes and striking out is terrible if they are throwing you a ton of balls. We as fans never really know how players are being pitched and assume based on a philosophy. We assume the prospect must be swinging at balls if striking out to much and is over aggressive. We assume that the above results are based on traditional approaches and rationale. When in fact a player may strike out a lot because he just can't hit the ball in the zone often enough and a player might have high pitch counts because he never sees a strike or because he fouls off a lot of pitches in the zone?

 

What is the approach given to prospect from year to year? Are they in fact following organizational instructions and we don't know proposed approach. You know damn well the organization is not going to say "oh yeah" that's on us when a player performs poorly. All we have to go on is results in season and credit the hitting coach. The only hitting coach to receive grief is the MLB coach.

[Thrylos]

I don't think that it is that simple.  The minor league hitting coordinator (who for the last 9 years up until 2014 was Bill Springman,) the minor league director and the GM are setting overall strategy, with the local hitting coaches trying to apply that strategy.   Same thing for pitching, etc.   So it is more than  the local coaches' responsibility and success.

[ashbury]

I just re-read the subject line a different way, and realized that Tony Oliva is, hands down, the best-hitting coach in the system.

[glunn]

 

I really think that one of the next big advancements in the baseball communities will be a proper evaluation of coaches.  Regressing to the mean isn't as much luck as it is adjustments, and often times it is a coach that helps with that.  I have no idea which of these guys is good and is not good (though Watkins and Allen were both flash in the plan type players with a similar skillsets that managed to outperform their expectations), but I do think that coaching is very underrated by the SABR community as they tend to just chalk it all up to regression to the mean and luck. 

 

On the flip side, no doubt that player talent plays into this a lot.  I don't think it's quite like football where a washout in one system can be a pro-bowler in another, but I do think that good coaching can help a guy tap into that potential. 

 

I wonder how this could be measured.  If I was the GM, I would have someone meet with each player periodically to discuss, among other things, how each coach has helped (or not helped) him.  As a fan, I am wondering if this could ever be measured, because there are so many variables. 

[BoomBoom]

 

I don't think that it is that simple.  The minor league hitting coordinator (who for the last 9 years up until 2014 was Bill Springman,) the minor league director and the GM are setting overall strategy, with the local hitting coaches trying to apply that strategy.   Same thing for pitching, etc.   So it is more than  the local coaches' responsibility and success.

 

Maybe that is why they don't have a hitting coordinator anymore.  Maybe they felt they were taking a cookie cutter approach with an overall coordinator.  Each level should provide different needs and each player should have different needs within that level.  Otherwise it would be like a strength coach starting everyone with the same plan and same weight amount.   That would not maximize a players potential.

[Seth Stohs]

 

I just re-read the subject line a different way, and realized that Tony Oliva is, hands down, the best-hitting coach in the system.

 

No way... I'll take Tommy Watkins... I mean, Oliva is almost 80 years old.

[BoomBoom]

 

No way... I'll take Tommy Watkins... I mean, Oliva is almost 80 years old.

No that's funny

Lol

[mudcat14]

I posted in another thread that the Twins would be wise to convince Jim Thome to take a role with the organization as a Roving Instructor.  He could work specifically with the sluggers in spring training and at whatever in-season schedule he was willing to commit to.  The guy had a .402 career OBP in a 20+ season MLB run by simply understanding that pitchers were afraid to pitch to him and try to make them throw strikes.  He still had plenty of swing from the heels misses, but they were usually strike pitches.  Sano appears to have a similar mind-set, but obviously still has some lessons to learn.  

[ashbury]

No that's funny

Lol

I felt like clicking Like to his response was insufficient, so I clicked Like to yours too, and still it didn't seem enough so I'm posting this LOL as well.

[BoomBoom]

 

I posted in another thread that the Twins would be wise to convince Jim Thome to take a role with the organization as a Roving Instructor.  He could work specifically with the sluggers in spring training and at whatever in-season schedule he was willing to commit to.  The guy had a .402 career OBP in a 20+ season MLB run by simply understanding that pitchers were afraid to pitch to him and try to make them throw strikes.  He still had plenty of swing from the heels misses, but they were usually strike pitches.  Sano appears to have a similar mind-set, but obviously still has some lessons to learn.  

I like your thinking Outside of the Box.  Definitely a younger Power hitting voice that the Twins do not have in their system.  Oliva is great, but Thome probably brings more to date credibility for these younger players.

[clutterheart]

Who do you think is our best Hitting Coach and Why?

Is it a philosophy or is it about knowing each players strengths and weaknesses?

 

 

This is Ridiculously silly.