2016 Election Thread

[TheLeviathan]

 

Not sure where I said it was the driving force, I said those people are hearing vindication today....let's read what I actually type.....

 

Maybe I'm not sure what you're saying then.  There appears to be a healthy dose of hyperbole you've walked back a couple times, I guess I just took that as your tone.  (Which, I totally get, last night was one of those "you'll remember where you were" moments)

 

If your statement is that racism is around, Ok, sure.  I guess I don't see how this election made that any more or less a thing.  So what are you saying about it then?

[TheLeviathan]

 

I don't think it is much more complex than this. A yearning for avoiding loss, a loss that is inevitable, frankly. And a party willing to lie to get power, and another party with no plan at all (and is also full of liars).

 

Say what you will about Trump, but he certainly was a different kind of liar.  Maybe that was enough for many people.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

No, not Trump, but Pence does fit that mold. He's the next step and a heartbeat away.

 

I live in Indiana, and have been there for more than 10 years now. Pence hasn't been a bad governor, and as politicians go, he'd probably be 10 times better than Trump.  He was picked though to give Trump some sort of establishment presence, as that's what he is... another establishment guy.

 

I wouldn't worry too much about heart beats though.  Honestly, if telling a lie about getting a blow job in the Whitehouse was impeachment worthy, I suspect Trump will be out the door in 2 years. He's going to be another Bill Clinton in that regard.  Neither one rates all that high in the 'respect for women' category. I honestly don't know how a woman could have voted for either. But that's just me.

 

Anyone care to guess on how long it takes for the rumors to start about Trump having an affair with Hope Hicks?  I put it at 6 months.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Heh... I was scared ****less that one of Trump or Hillary was going to win. I came to peace with that long ago. We're doomed, and it will be that way until America figures out that they need to stop voting for crap candidates like Trump and Hillary.

Sorry, diehard, but you're a straight white dude, just like me.

 

Our level of fear reaches no higher than a 3 out of 10. We'll be fine unless the world literally blows up.

 

The fear of mild discomfort doesn't rate compared to seeing your family deported.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Sorry, diehard, but you're a straight white dude, just like me.

Our level of fear reaches no higher than a 3 out of 10. We'll be fine unless the world literally blows up.

The fear of mild discomfort doesn't rate compared to seeing your family deported.

 

I'm going to be curious as to the reaction of the populace if Trump actually enacts some of that talk.

 

I tend to think most of it was hot air and lipservice, but if it does happen you're talking about stuff that's going to look straight out of a movie about a future dystopia.  

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

The best case scenario is that we see Graham, Rubio, Ryan, et al try to take back their party. I don't agree with their policies but they're decent people.

 

I cannot say the same for Trump.

 

If we're lucky, we see them form a coalition with moderate Democrats to block Trump's most outrageous ideas.

 

But we're pretty much ****ed on the deficit and taxes. There's no way I see the GOP backing down from the opportunity to lower taxes on their bread and butter.

 

Honestly, this is where I think Trump may be a pleasant surprise. His 'secret voters' so to speak aren't rich white guys. Those guys backed Hillary. Trump has said stuff about changing the inheritance tax (which I might add really benefits him), but if you look at what he's said in this area, he's definitely pushing for different reforms:

• He's made it clear Yellen won't be back and that they need to start raising rates (truthfully, this was needed years ago. It will hurt in the short term, but this needs to happen).
• He's publically stated that he wants to re-instate Glass-Steagle (this law got repealed during the Clinton administration and created the TBTF banks in the first place).
• He has experience running bigger businesses (and let's be fair here, you could cut 20% of the size of the Federal government without even touching the services it provides. It's hopelessly bloated).

I'm not really a fan of his, but if he was telling the truth with this, you might actually see some much needed changes in a few places (assuming of course he keeps his promises).  The deficit most definitely needs to be addressed.  Greece was not an isolated incident, and several other European nations are nearing their own crisis (Italy and Spain in particular). That will make it here eventually.  Do something about it now, and we can avoid that mess altogether.

[TheLeviathan]

I don't share your optimism on policy diehard.  I think the only thing we can be sure of is that we will see a lot of non-environmentally friendly policies enacted and a hefty decline in taxes for the rich.

 

Beyond that, I have no idea what the guy will do.

[biggentleben]

This was a very solid column:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/09/opinion/were-near-the-breaking-point.html?smid=fb-share

[Mike Sixel]

 

Maybe I'm not sure what you're saying then.  There appears to be a healthy dose of hyperbole you've walked back a couple times, I guess I just took that as your tone.  (Which, I totally get, last night was one of those "you'll remember where you were" moments)

 

If your statement is that racism is around, Ok, sure.  I guess I don't see how this election made that any more or less a thing.  So what are you saying about it then?

 

Nothing more than I typed, people that are racists feel vindicated in their beliefs (and will probably act on them more). That's what I typed, isn't it?

 

I got a lot of **** going on right now, probably clouding my comments some. But if people don't think a GOP that controls most of the governments in this country, and now have no president or court to stop them, isn't going to act while they have the chance? We don't see the same future.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Bull****.

If you want to send a message to the establishment that enough is enough, you don't do it with someone like Trump.

There might be a surging groundswell of dissatisfaction amongst middle class Americans but if this is who they're willing to annoint as their champion then I think it speaks to more than just that.

This whole thing may have not been entirely about gender inequality but if you don't think for a second Hillary was held to a different standard for her transgressions than a male counterpart, then look no further than the who they chose instead of her.

 

Much like Bernie Sanders this year, Ron Paul did much the same in 2008 and 2012 in the Republican party.... and like Bernie Sanders, the establishment went all out to shut him down. The establishment plays by a different set of rules. Heck, they don't even hide it anymore.  Look what happened to the DNC chair when she was forced to resign after it was leaked that she actively working for Hillary.  HRC hired her.  Talk about a big FU to the Bernie Sanders movement, but HRC went right along.  That is what that was. You've got the press in bed too, with CNN leaking debate questions to the HRC campaign. All of that perpetuates the very establishment problem that people are very much sick of.  You have to realize that all of those 'uneducated' people get pretty turned off by that... and rightfully so.

 

I don't think the anti-establishment movement necessarily picked Trump. I do, however, think that Trump is a big enough figure that he can just bulldoze through that type of ****. He's got the money and the personality to play by his own rules, and no matter how distasteful that was, he could get away with it. 

 

If anything, Dems and Reps earned this. Now if they wise up, all the better, and long term this country will be better off for it.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Many of my neighbors have been racists for years. Your neighbors too. Let's not deny racism is an issue in this country, please. That would be ridiculously naive.

 

As for the EPA......wanna bet on whether pollution is worse in 4 years?

 

It's right in the GOP platform, to undo much of the national park spending, and to get rid of many public lands. If you lived out West, you'd hear the voices loudly and clearly. Wanna bet on the shape of public lands in 4 years?

 

The GOP has full control of the federal government, and most of the states. Anyone that thinks LGBQT rights, or reproductive rights, or education isn't at risk, well, you are, imo, wrong.

 

This is the fear mongering that both sides engage in. I find it funny listening to you guys slam Republicans for these same tactics yet you cannot see it in yourself. 

 

Here are some facts

 

• Pollution is going to go up no matter who is in office. The real problem with pollution is not the American manufacturing, but all those cheap imports that we don't regulate in the same capacity. You want to really see pollution, go visit Mexico City or a number of Chinese cities that are manufacturing based. For all the talk about climate change, the one sure thing response to pollution would be to tell other countries that in order to get their products in our markets, they need meet our standards with pollution... and none of the politicians want to deal with the backlash that this would cause.  
• The Republicans won't touch abortion. I've been saying this to my friends on the right for years.  They know full well that a large portion of their base will stay home of Roe was overturned.  If want more evidence, just look at the majority that Republican appointed justices have held on the court since Roe. They could have overturned it had they made it a litmus test. If anything, there's a litmus test to make sure it isn't overturned.
• Your public lands are collateral on that massive debt that we have. The GOP cannot touch that anymore than the Dems can. Everything around that is just a show, but other than minor tweaks those lands will still be there.
• LGBQT?  Seriously.  Other than a real vocal minority on each side of the debate, you won't see any changes there either. Most Reps couldn't care less about that. It's a small right wing conservative block that does, most of whom had a real problem voting for Trump this election given that the word 'integrity' is not one associated with him.

Honestly, education is the only thing on this list that needs changing, and it certainly shouldn't be untouchable. When the D of Ed was formed, our kids were first across the board nationally in everything. Now they aren't. It has failed. Period. No Child Left Behind has done nothing but create a culture of teaching to the test and punishing the brightest at the expense of the rest. If the Republicans scrap the Dept of Education and let the states have it back, by all means they should. I fail to see how this would be bad for anyone. 

[Craig Arko]

And you get your theocracy, too. Bully for you.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Sorry, diehard, but you're a straight white dude, just like me.

Our level of fear reaches no higher than a 3 out of 10. We'll be fine unless the world literally blows up.

The fear of mild discomfort doesn't rate compared to seeing your family deported.

 

My fear has nothing to do with personal safety and everything to do with what happens with the chickens come home to roost.  That day is coming, and I'm convinced that the only way to avoid it is to kick the Dems are Reps to the curb.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

I don't share your optimism on policy diehard.  I think the only thing we can be sure of is that we will see a lot of non-environmentally friendly policies enacted and a hefty decline in taxes for the rich.

 

Beyond that, I have no idea what the guy will do.

 

I think you'll see a hefty decline in taxes that favor Trump (say good bye to the inheritance tax). But all those rich white guys weren't in his corner, and he won't be owing them any favors.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

And you get your theocracy, too. Bully for you.

 

Have you paid attention to Trump at all?  The guy is about as anti-Christian as it comes.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Nothing more than I typed, people that are racists feel vindicated in their beliefs (and will probably act on them more). That's what I typed, isn't it?

 

I got a lot of **** going on right now, probably clouding my comments some. But if people don't think a GOP that controls most of the governments in this country, and now have no president or court to stop them, isn't going to act while they have the chance? We don't see the same future.

 

Ah, I see, I misread that.  Probably too much listening to the wider conversation and I let it color my reading of your comment.

 

I do agree, we're going to see aggressive GOP policies in the coming years.  

[TheLeviathan]

Nailed it.

[Vanimal46]

Nailed it.

*Takes deep breath*

 

What is this, fresh air? Haven't been able to find this all day... Thank you for sharing!

[USAFChief]

Nailed it.

Sort of what I was getting at..only with coherent points, paragraphs and ****

[nicksaviking]

I think you'll see a hefty decline in taxes that favor Trump (say good bye to the inheritance tax). But all those rich white guys weren't in his corner, and he won't be owing them any favors.

He doesn't have to do them any favors, he just has to want the same thing; that being an even greater income disparity and every possible economic advantage slanted toward them instead of the lower and middle class.

 

Make America Corporate Again, er Still. Real change going to happen now that the 1% are running things for the first time ever.

[Squirrel]

 

Sort of what I was getting at..only with coherent points, paragraphs and ****

You were coherent.

[Squirrel]

Protest going on in Chicago right now. I'm still at work, just noticed it on my FB feed. From what I can see from the news camera, seems peaceful, just people on a march around downtown and around the Trump tower.

[diehardtwinsfan]

Hmm...  Now I'm in the mood for Bella Bacinos, seeing that it is right across the street from the Trump Tower...

 

That's some good pizza.

[Squirrel]

 

Hmm...  Now I'm in the mood for Bella Bacinos, seeing that it is right across the street from the Trump Tower...

 

That's some good pizza.

Well, you don't want to go there now .. the protest is 7-8 blocks long, and they are circling all over the place. And I can't tell from the news feed because it's video from a helicopter, so it just looks like one huge long ant trail.

[Craig Arko]

Yeah, the EPA is going to flourish

 

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/trump-picks-top-climate-skeptic-to-lead-epa-transition/

 

I'm sure all the children and grandchildren will be very proud.

[Mike Sixel]

Check out the racist stuff at maple grove high today....

 

My friend at another school had to talk to an Lgbqt student about suicide today. He had to reassure Muslim students. So ya, real.

[jimmer]

 

Neat

The reality is it's nearly impossible for one party to win the White House for 12 straight years.

Hillary won the popular vote, but trump got his base of white, uneducated and racist men to the polls. I don't think the problem was Hillary to be honest...

Well, let's try to figure this out.  This demographic you point out would seem to be the group that would have a problem with the man who is in office right now and who was elected twice by pretty significant margins?  I mean, for the most part, right?

 

Now, America has about 38-39% white males, right?  

 

-Some aren't going to vote Trump because they are very much Dems.

-Some aren't going to be uneducated (whatever level of education makes them uneducated)

-Some aren't going to be racist.

-Some aren't going to be sexist (and I bring up sexist because you made sure to say men, so by pointing that out seems sexist is another accusation). 

- Some aren't going to be some of those negative things.

-Some aren't going to be a lot of those negative things.

-Some aren't going to be any of those things.

 

After taking them out,  I have no idea what percentage of the 38-39% left are actually white, uneducated, racist and sexist, but I'm pretty sure it's nowhere near enough to outweigh all of the educated, non-racist, non-sexist white men when joined by white women and minorities of all sexes if they all thought she was the best choice.

 

A lot of people seem unable to believe that maybe there are legitimate reasons why people don't want Hillary for President and it's not just uneducated racist sexist white males that have a problem with her.

 

Between the two main candidates, I wanted Clinton, but I'm not going to say that the reason she lost was because of racist, sexist, white men, because if only that group voted for Trump, we'd be saying President-Elect Clinton. There had to be plenty of other demographics who also voted for Trump.

[nicksaviking]

Yeah, the EPA is going to flourish

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/trump-picks-top-climate-skeptic-to-lead-epa-transition/

I'm sure all the children and grandchildren will be very proud.

Well that "bring Americans together" stuff he said in his acceptance speech sure lasted long.

[Craig Arko]

Well that "bring Americans together" stuff he said in his acceptance speech sure lasted long.

That should surprise precisely nobody

[Squirrel]

Protests in Seattle now, too.