2016 Election Thread

[Squirrel]

Um, Glen Beck endorsed (softly) Hillary? Is the world ending? Are pigs flying? Cats and dogs together ...

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Um, Glen Beck endorsed (softly) Hillary? Is the world ending? Are pigs flying? Cats and dogs together ...

About once a year, Glenn Beck does something incredibly sane. Last time around, it was his appeal to hear out the Black Lives Matter folks because they have legitimate grievances that need to be heard.

[nicksaviking]

 

Um, Glen Beck endorsed (softly) Hillary? Is the world ending? Are pigs flying? Cats and dogs together .

 

Yeah, I'll take the Wisconsin woman Tweeting above over 200 Becks.

 

I mean I'd like to rub the Beck bit in Trump's and the RNC's noses, but they can keep keep him.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Arizona is now light blue on FiveThirtyEight.

 

lol

 

So, yeah, Trump.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Yeah, I'll take the Wisconsin woman Tweeting above over 200 Becks.

 

I mean I'd like to rub the Beck bit in Trump's and the RNC's noses, but they can keep keep him.

Sure, most of us strongly disagree with most of Beck's platform.

 

But I respect the man. He's shown a modicum of decency on a variety of issues.

 

If the GOP is going to stick with the religious right and let them drive the platform, I'll take Glenn Beck over Cruz, Santorum, Hannity, et al 11 times out of 10.

 

In times like these, I think it's important to not villainize everyone on the other side of the aisle. If everyone who disagrees with me is some level of evil, it makes it hard to identify and root out the real evil lurking in the GOP (namely, Trump and his white nationalist movement).

 

So, I respectfully disagree with Beck but generally, I don't think he's a bad person.

[Mike Sixel]

Right....most people aren't evil/bad, they are just wrong on some issues or actions. But, that doesn't make them bad people, and we do especially need to try to work with those that show at least some inclination to move to the other side occasionally. 

[TheLeviathan]

Beck has also done a lot to clean up his act since he left Fox.  He used to be a lot worse and I think time and being able to dictate his own style have moderated him.

 

Also, I missed that rant Chief posted....holy crap!  That woman's tweets should be blasted all over for Republicans to see.

[nicksaviking]

 

Sure, most of us strongly disagree with most of Beck's platform.

 

But I respect the man. He's shown a modicum of decency on a variety of issues.

 

If the GOP is going to stick with the religious right and let them drive the platform, I'll take Glenn Beck over Cruz, Santorum, Hannity, et al 11 times out of 10.

 

In times like these, I think it's important to not villainize everyone on the other side of the aisle. If everyone who disagrees with me is some level of evil, it makes it hard to identify and root out the real evil lurking in the GOP (namely, Trump and his white nationalist movement).

 

So, I respectfully disagree with Beck but generally, I don't think he's a bad person.

 

 

Beck has also done a lot to clean up his act since he left Fox.  He used to be a lot worse and I think time and being able to dictate his own style have moderated him.

 

Also, I missed that rant Chief posted....holy crap!  That woman's tweets should be blasted all over for Republicans to see.

 

 In fairness to Beck, I haven't listened to a word he's said in the past decade. So if he isn't the same conniving, sniveling, fact-twisting, excuse-maker I remember, then congratulations to him and my apologies.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Must-read article about rural America from Cracked. That's not something I expected to say today.

 

http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-reasons-trumps-rise-that-no-one-talks-about_p2/

[Squirrel]

 

Must-read article about rural America from Cracked. That's not something I expected to say today.

 

http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-reasons-trumps-rise-that-no-one-talks-about_p2/

That was great. And reading the comments was interesting, too. It didn't break down into name-calling and denial and pointing fingers. Mostly.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Must-read article about rural America from Cracked. That's not something I expected to say today.

 

http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-reasons-trumps-rise-that-no-one-talks-about_p2/

 

I grew up in a small rural Minnesota town.  The kind that, if their one business shuts down, would cause the town to collapse.  Drive around in out state Minnesota and you'll find a lot of dying towns.  People are flocking to the in-between sized towns now like a Fairmont or Owatanna rather than sticking it out in their little town.  We route roads away from towns and it does the same.  When I was a kid going to school in LaCrosse I'd take highway 14 and it'd wind through Waconia and all the little towns there.  Now it bypasses them and the towns are falling apart.  Dying slowly as all their kids leave for places that actually have jobs and opportunity.  

 

And yet, we need those towns.  Farmers, like my family, need them to keep their business alive.  But as more and more people move away it causes a litany of issues.  (Education chief among them)

 

Trump's supporters aren't going away.  In fact, his loss may only deepen the divide and the anger.  

 

That graph about job creation is perfect.  It's a perfect symbol of what's wrong with a lot of our economic development right now.  I'm going to use that again, it's perfect.

[Squirrel]

 

I grew up in a small rural Minnesota town.  The kind that, if their one business shuts down, would cause the town to collapse.  Drive around in out state Minnesota and you'll find a lot of dying towns.  People are flocking to the in-between sized towns now like a Fairmont or Owatanna rather than sticking it out in their little town.  We route roads away from towns and it does the same.  When I was a kid going to school in LaCrosse I'd take highway 14 and it'd wind through Waconia and all the little towns there.  Now it bypasses them and the towns are falling apart.  Dying slowly as all their kids leave for places that actually have jobs and opportunity.  

 

And yet, we need those towns.  Farmers, like my family, need them to keep their business alive.  But as more and more people move away it causes a litany of issues.  (Education chief among them)

 

Trump's supporters aren't going away.  In fact, his loss may only deepen the divide and the anger.  

 

That graph about job creation is perfect.  It's a perfect symbol of what's wrong with a lot of our economic development right now.  I'm going to use that again, it's perfect.

Not to change the subject, but just where did you grow up? You sound like you were in my neck o' the woods.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Not to change the subject, but just where did you grow up? You sound like you were in my neck o' the woods.

 

Gaylord.  Lots of towns down in that area are struggling.  You?

[Squirrel]

 

Gaylord.  Lots of towns down in that area are struggling.  You?

Okay ... that's not in SE Mn ... when you said you went to school in LaCrosse ... I thought you meant grammar/hs ... but you were talking about college? I grew up in SE Mn ... in Winona, actually, which isn't small town rural ... it's more mediocre town surrounded by rural. But went to high school with a lot who were truly small town rural.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Okay ... that's not in SE Mn ... when you said you went to school in LaCrosse ... I thought you meant grammar/hs ... but you were talking about college? I grew up in SE Mn ... in Winona, actually, which isn't small town rural ... it's more mediocre town surrounded by rural. But went to high school with a lot who were truly small town rural.

 

Yeah, meant college.  I'm very familiar with Winona...spent a few nights there while I was in college.  Beautiful town.  But much larger than where I grew up, which was more akin to what the article was referring IMO.

[Mike Sixel]

Well, if you are a free market GOPer....you won't subsidize small towns, you don't care if jobs go over seas, etc.....that's what free markets are all about. Frankly, I don't think Trump supporters and GOP "thought leaders" have anything in common, other than irrational hatred for their "opponents". 

[PseudoSABR]

 

Gaylord.  Lots of towns down in that area are struggling.  You?

My family were also farmers, but from Bird Island; and I think you're right about these dying little towns that deepen the divide no matter the result of the election.  There's an odd sense of community that's born out of their shared desperation and bitterness.

[USAFChief]

Wow...Gaylord and Bird Island.

 

Cosmos for me.

 

BTW, I hate friggin' Bird Island. We lost 73-0 my senior year of HS football.

[TheLeviathan]

Drove through Cosmos many times on the way to see cousins in Grove City!  Driving from New Ulm up that way on 4 is another good way to see lots of those small towns that are dying.  

 

As Psuedo said, there is a lot of pride in those towns.  That's their home, they're proud to make it on their own, there is (spite? disdain? Those words seem too harsh) for city living.  And people are suffering.  They bear the burden of increased costs, agriculture has been hit with low prices again, and businesses just don't make it.

 

It is depressing and there is a lot of dismissive rhetoric from both sides.  The right tries to talk about it but the left rarely has much experience with that they are talking about it.  (And even then, the right doesn't understand, it's largely manipulative nonsense)

[stringer bell]

This idea of small towns dying isn't new at all. In the 70s, I wrote a paper about the decline of population is SW Minnesota. I went to college in Marshall and visiting a lot of little burgs all around. Education, transportation and lack of good jobs was the problem then and remains so today.

[Mike Sixel]

 

This idea of small towns dying isn't new at all. In the 70s, I wrote a paper about the decline of population is SW Minnesota. I went to college in Marshall and visiting a lot of little burgs all around. Education, transportation and lack of good jobs was the problem then and remains so today.

 

And, again, small government republicans would say that's too bad.....that's what small government, low taxes, no mandates from the state......that's what that means in practice.

[Willihammer]

 

Well, if you are a free market GOPer....you won't subsidize small towns, you don't care if jobs go over seas, etc.....that's what free markets are all about. Frankly, I don't think Trump supporters and GOP "thought leaders" have anything in common, other than irrational hatred for their "opponents". 

That's not the whole story. The reason steel and energy companies in the US are suffering, to take two examples, is because of interventionist policies by China and Saudi Arabia. Inteverntion is the opposite of the free market. Trump is not completely wrong when he blames China for the trouble people are having. And its not some kind of proof that the free market failed.

 

What the GOP has to do is explain why Trump's answer, neo-mercantilism, is a bad idea long-term.

[PseudoSABR]

http://a5.img.talkingpointsmemo.com/image/upload/w_652/vsyra7vnpin9vx0ewzsr.jpg

Not sure I'd go with the kiss, Donald.

[Craig Arko]

http://a5.img.talkingpointsmemo.com/image/upload/w_652/vsyra7vnpin9vx0ewzsr.jpg

Not sure I'd go with the kiss, Donald.

Pieces of paper for Trump.

[PseudoSABR]

 

That's not the whole story. The reason steel and energy companies in the US are suffering, to take two examples, is because of interventionist policies by China and Saudi Arabia. Inteverntion is the opposite of the free market. Trump is not completely wrong when he blames China for the trouble people are having. And its not some kind of proof that the free market failed.

 

What the GOP has to do is explain why Trump's answer, neo-mercantilism, is a bad idea long-term.

 It's not simply that jobs are going overseas, the unfettered free market itself is prone to eliminate them in the name of efficiency/profit/lower-prices.  

[Craig Arko]

Continuing on the scorched earth theme, I wonder how much additional damage this guy will do to the country in the last few weeks of a failed campaign.

[PseudoSABR]

 

Continuing on the scorched earth theme, I wonder how much additional damage this guy will do to the country in the last few weeks of a failed campaign.

I just hope he doesn't succeed in emboldening his supporters to violence after the election.  The rigged election and put her in jail themes worry me. 

[Willihammer]

It's not simply that jobs are going overseas, the unfettered free market itself is prone to eliminate them in the name of efficiency/profit/lower-prices.

... and replacing them with new ones. This has gone on since the invention of the wheel.

[PseudoSABR]

 

... and replacing them with new ones. This has gone on since the invention of the wheel.

This notion that jobs replaced by technology and organizational efficiency somehow lead to the same number of jobs else where in the market is a myth. Especially, in rural America. 

 

(We can't all go work at the local robot factory that built the robot that took our job).  

[Brock Beauchamp]

This notion that jobs replaced by technology and organizational efficiency somehow lead to the same number of jobs else where in the market is a myth. Especially, in rural America.

 

(We can't all go work at the local robot factory that built the robot that took our job).

Yep. This is new territory. 6-8 months ago, Foxconn laid off 60,000 workers on their iPhone line and replaced them with machines.

 

The population of St Cloud is 67,000 people.