10 aces in the deck

Willihammer · December 6, 2014

Has there ever been a better buyers market for ace pitchers?

I count 10 aces available, or rumored to be available, this winter.

Scherzer

Lester

Shields

Zimmerman

Fister

Price

Porcello

Samadzija

Hamels

Maeda

Of course it goes without saying that no team more the the Twins, whose starting staff finished last in the AL for the 3rd year in a row, are a lock to land one.

Right?

Craig Arko · December 6, 2014

Definition: A rhetorical question is a figure of speech in the form of a question that is asked in order to make a point, rather than to elicit an answer.

shs_59 · December 6, 2014

I get ur point, and its a somewhat valid one. However:

1. Lester

2. Schzerzer

3. Hamels

4. Price

5. Zimmerman

6. annd maybe Maeda

are the only 'aces' I see

Shields , a great innings eater is really more of a #2 or superior 3 for me at this point.

Porcello , an ace? Think that one over again real hard, he's not much different that Kyle Gibson.

Samardzja , probably the closest call I see him as a #2 , but definately a top of rotation guy. Only 1 yr left on 9 Million dollar deal (then the huge payday comes :/ )

Fister , another pitcher who eats innings but more like James Shields for me than a true ace.

So i Count 5. Maybe 6.

Willihammer · December 6, 2014

Definition: A rhetorical question is a figure of speech in the form of a question that is asked in order to make a point, rather than to elicit an answer.

Yes. The point being, for crissake get an ace

Also December.

cmb0252 · December 6, 2014

Cueto and Latos are also available.

drock2190 · December 6, 2014

I only count 3, Scherzer, Price and Hamels. Before last year, Lester had a 3.75 era and a 4.82 before that. An ace doesn't put up those numbers especially the 4.82.

As for Shields, he's an innings eater. Zimmerman is close to an ace but I wouldn't label him that yet, I want to see another great year. Fister is a number 3, Porcello is a 4 at best. Samardija (sp?) is a good number 2 option.

The above poster mentioned Cueto who is a boderline ace only because he has problems with injuries so that hurts him. Latos is a great number 2 but hes not an ace.

The label Ace gets thrown around a lot but there is only like 10 Aces in the game.

tobi0040 · December 6, 2014

I get ur point, and its a somewhat valid one. However:

1. Lester
2. Schzerzer
3. Hamels
4. Price
5. Zimmerman
6. annd maybe Maeda

are the only 'aces' I see

Shields , a great innings eater is really more of a #2 or superior 3 for me at this point.
Porcello , an ace? Think that one over again real hard, he's not much different that Kyle Gibson.
Samardzja , probably the closest call I see him as a #2 , but definately a top of rotation guy. Only 1 yr left on 9 Million dollar deal (then the huge payday comes :/ )

Fister , another pitcher who eats innings but more like James Shields for me than a true ace.

So i Count 5. Maybe 6.

The compelling trade candidates for me would be Zimmerman and Cueto. My conditions would be not givng up Sano and Buston and theym accepting an extension of 5-100 with a team option or two. If a 6th year vested based on innings that would probably be OK. I am guessing that would not be likely.

I think the others have some warts. I think the guys that are in free agency are going to get a 7 year deals in excess of $25M a year. I think Hamels and Price are going to cost Sano/Buxton and require a $150M extension. Latos is appealing but he has been hurt a bit. Lots of risk to lose prospects and extend. I am not sure Jeff S. is the real deal. And I would probably give Shields a 3 year deal.

Hosken Bombo Disco · December 6, 2014

Yeah some of these are more ace-y than others. But wouldn't you think guys from the Midwest like Scherzer, Zimmerman or Price would be open to playing here?

twinsnorth49 · December 6, 2014

Porcello? Really?.......you lost me.

USAFChief · December 6, 2014

The compelling trade candidates for me would be Zimmerman and Cueto. My conditions would be not givng up Sano and Buston and theym accepting an extension of 5-100 with a team option or two. If a 6th year vested based on innings that would probably be OK. I am guessing that would not be likely.

I think the others have some warts. I think the guys that are in free agency are going to get a 7 year deals in excess of $25M a year. I think Hamels and Price are going to cost Sano/Buxton and require a $150M extension. Latos is appealing but he has been hurt a bit. Lots of risk to lose prospects and extend. I am not sure Jeff S. is the real deal. And I would probably give Shields a 3 year deal.

Nit pick: Hamels doesn't require an extension.

goulik · December 7, 2014

I think the point is this may be more of a buyers market than most years which also raises the likelihood of getting more than a Nolasco/Correia/Pelfrey type. I'm encouraged enough by the number of "Quality" pitchers out there that I won't get hung up on the "Who's an ace" side bar. Thanks Torihammer!

tobi0040 · December 7, 2014

Nit pick: Hamels doesn't require an extension.

True. Owed about 4 and 100 with an option.

jokin · December 7, 2014

I think Hamels and Price are going to cost Sano/Buxton and require a $150M extension.

Somehow Willy Adames and Nick Franklin don't sound quite as impressive as Sano or Buxton. One (guaranteed) year of Price shouldn't cost that much, unless some team gets crazy panicked and desperate, and that definitely wouldn't be the Twins.

Physics Guy · December 7, 2014

I'm encouraged enough by the number of "Quality" pitchers out there that I won't get hung up on the "Who's an ace" side bar. Thanks Torihammer!

Agreed. I felt like responding to the "aces" idea, but most importantly, there are many good pitchers available. I count at least a dozen guys that would fit into the mold of "as good as Hughes" that I called for at the end of the season. I say screw leaving spots open for Meyer and May. They can earn their spot in the bullpen and work into the starting rotation if, or more likely when, one of the other guys fails or gets hurt. It worked for Wainright, Lynn and Wacha in St Louis. (Sorry to bring up St Louis as the model franchise )

Otwins · December 7, 2014

I agree with the point that the pitching should be available. I hope the Twin acquire two. The pitching has been so bad I hope they grab all they can afford.

tobi0040 · December 7, 2014

Somehow Willy Adames and Nick Franklin don't sound quite as impressive as Sano or Buxton. One (guaranteed) year of Price shouldn't cost that much, unless some team gets crazy panicked and desperate, and that definitely wouldn't be the Twins.

I think to give anything up, it requires an extension. But honestly, the Tigers have thought this is their year about 5 years in a row now. Their owner is old and wants a ring. He isn't going anywhere.

zchrz · December 7, 2014

The depth of the pitching market leads me to believe that TR is going to find a mid range, Nolasco-ish contract that he is agreeable to. My money is on Mccarthy or Masterson, with Santana probably being the splurge and Hammel the generic brand.

I think they will sign someone and that is going to make a weird logjam once they finally decide the prospects are ready. Meyer/ May could be started off in the pen but its seems like the successful cases of that are usually young guys with absurd stuff they just can't quite harness yet, at 25+ that is not really the deal anymore.

So Hughes, Gibson\ Free agent, Nolasco, ________. May probably gets his shot but how tied to Nolasco (or the free agent) are they with contracts in mind over the next couple years and the prospects coming up?

old nurse · December 7, 2014

Somehow Willy Adames and Nick Franklin don't sound quite as impressive as Sano or Buxton. One (guaranteed) year of Price shouldn't cost that much, unless some team gets crazy panicked and desperate, and that definitely wouldn't be the Twins.

What Twin player would be the Drew Smyly part of the trade? The Rays got a lot more back than fringe prospects.

tobi0040 · December 7, 2014

Here is an article that lists a lot of the names in play. Lot of interesting dynamics tied to most of them

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/11979452/mlb-winter-meetings-10-names-watch

strumdatjaguar · December 7, 2014

The ESPN Article states that the Mets are shopping Jonathon Niese (mid-rotation lefty) for a shortstop (Danny Santana?). He's only 28, and it may be nice to add another lefty into the mix. I'd be likely to stick with an everyday young player over another mid-rotation guy - but it's an idea with Escobar as an adequate SS and Nick Gordon working his way through the minors.

The Mets also want to trade 41 year old Bartolo Colon, even covering part of his salary, but father-time will soon catch up with him. No reason to add Colon - the Twins are building for the future an NOT trying to win an extra 4 games in 2015.

ashbury · December 7, 2014

A year ago at this time, Pedro Florimon was ensconced as our starting shortstop. I'm not eager to declare this a position where there's a logjam that needs to be loosened, quite yet. How about we give them Escobar for Niese instead? They wouldn't go for that? Then I'm not so eager to put Escobar as my starting shortstop, either.

ScottyB · December 7, 2014

Two guys I would take a chance on are Medlen and Beachy. Both are coming off TJ surgery and won't be ready until about June, but have great upside. Give a 2-year deal, with lots of incentives and back-loaded with an additional option year and they're young enough to bounce back. They would be a good risk and investment for the future. Maybe we could trade Nolasco when they are ready.

jokin · December 7, 2014

What Twin player would be the Drew Smyly part of the trade? The Rays got a lot more back than fringe prospects.

Sorry, I wouldn't define one of the few Aces in the game for a projected mid-rotation upside SP, plus two fringe prospects as "a lot more." The Rays did better in the trade for Shields AND Wade Davis.

old nurse · December 8, 2014

Sorry, I wouldn't define one of the few Aces in the game for a projected mid-rotation upside SP, plus two fringe prospects as "a lot more." The Rays did better in the trade for Shields AND Wade Davis.

1.70ERA for Tampa. Time will if Smyly is a front, back or middle of rotation kind of pitcher. Adams is an 19 year old from the Dominican. Middle infielder. Time will tell if he is fringe or not. Franklin is 23, was a top 100 prospect until being promoted to the majors and still developing as a player

Odorizzi pitched like a middle of the rotation starter, Myers played poorly last year. Patterson is stuck at AA level and the other guy is in A ball. You will not know which is a better trade for a while.

Still does not settle what the Twins would have to get a top pitcher in trade w/o Buxton/Sano included

Linus · December 8, 2014

Twins reportedly in contact with Liriano's agent. What say you TD posters?

He has some upside but is way too inconsistent - I say no.

ScottyB · December 8, 2014

Twins reportedly in contact with Liriano's agent. What say you TD posters?

He has some upside but is way too inconsistent - I say no.

And considering he would cost a draft choice, I too would pass.

tobi0040 · December 8, 2014

The White Sox are in "serious talks" regading Jeff Samardzija.

I would count the White Sox getting him for their best prospects, then handing him $100M as the best thing that will happen to the Twins this offseason.

His career ERA is 3.99, almost all in the NL. His career era plus is 101. And he will be 30 next year.

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/12/08/white-sox-in-serious-talks-with-as-for-jeff-samardzija/related/