Ripping the Fans Off

[Riverbrian]

I've mentioned this before but I think it's worth discussion. It's on the top of my mind while watching the playoffs. 

 

When you purchase a mid-season ticket to watch the Twins play baseball. The Fan is getting ripped off!!! They are not getting implied full value for the price of the ticket. 

 

This discussion should be focused on what we know (the Twins) but I don't believe it's just the Twins. This is something that happens in San Diego, Texas, Tampa Bay, everywhere during the regular season. 

 

What proof do I offer? Nothing but an easy to make observation while watching the playoffs. Take notice of the intensity of the players involved. Look at the celebrations... the fist pumps... the jumping up and down in the dugout. A 4th inning pitch with a 2-0 count matters and pitchers are taking deep breaths because they know it matters.

 

Do you see anything like this while watching game 97 of the 162 game season? 

 

It's not all on the players... Obviously the Full House and the Fan intensity plays a major role in this playoff atmosphere. 

 

People are talking about the length of games being a problem in Baseball. I contend it's not the length of the game that's a problem. It's the intensity that lacks during the regular season. Nobody is caring if the Royals/Orioles game takes 3 hours and 20 minutes or 2 hours and 30 minutes. 

 

When you buy a ticket... Each Fan has the right to expect this type of intensity... no matter what Month you attend. Each fan should get their money's worth.   

[Otto von Ballpark]

I don't watch that intensely for most of the season either, though.

 

I also notice that for some of these playoff teams, the intensity wanes after a loss or two, even close losses (or maybe especially close losses?).  That's the Twins most every year lately (and every October from 2002-2010).

[Mike Sixel]

Huh, this is not what I thought you'd type based on the title......

 

This is the complaint many have made about the NBA over time, right? complete lack of intensity some night, and even for quarters of a game?

 

I don't know if that level of intensity is sustainable over 162 games, every game. It must not be, because I can't ever recall seeing it over a full season. I'd suggest it probably isn't something you'll ever get from MLB.

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

It's a long season - I expect there wouldn't be anybody left healthy enough to play those playoff games if they allowed that level of stress and pressure to occupy every pitch of the season.

 

I think the playoffs (and meaningful games leading towards making the playoffs) are the reward for playing the long game.

[twinsnorth49]

Damn, I thought this was going to be another payroll thread.....

[twinsnorth49]

But playoff tix are more money, so is it relative?

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

There are players that seem to lay it all out on the line on every play - Dozier, Suzuki, Sam Fuld, Young Torii Hunter all had that reputation. They stand out when there are others on the field that seem to be playing the long game. 

[Riverbrian]

I think it is difficult to sustain over 162 games. There is another game tomorrow... Another at-bat coming right around the corner... There is another pitch to be thrown.  

 

It becomes routine. 

 

However... I openly question that if being difficult to sustain is a legit excuse. You buy a ticket to the game... That maybe the only game you attend that year. Doesn't the ticket buyer deserve something beyond the routine? If you want them to come back. The players are well compensated to provide it. I don't want to buy a ticket and watch anyone lay up on a sinking liner or coast in second base when a triple was entirely possible.  

 

Serve a routine hamburger and you may not sell another and the cooks have to make hamburgers everyday.

 

I get the playoffs are a whole new level. If you lose in July there is another game to play tomorrow... you don't stop playing. In the playoffs... you lose... it's time to go golfing. 

 

I get the difference... I'm just openly questioning... During the regular season. Why can't the players perform with playoff intensity. 

 

The difference is noticeable. 

[TheLeviathan]

I would imagine it would create some serious mental exhaustion to perform with that much intensity for 7 months.

[Riverbrian]

But playoff tix are more money, so is it relative?

 

It sure seems like it is

[Riverbrian]

I would imagine it would create some serious mental exhaustion to perform with that much intensity for 7 months.

 

Yeah Maybe... But to me... The Intensity looks like fun. Eric Hosmer appears to be having the time of his life right now. 

 

I guess... I have the opinion... that everybody is better off. The Players and the Fans. 

[Riverbrian]

Damn, I though this was going to be another payroll thread.....

 

LOL... I continue to not care about payroll as much as others do. I just don't see this as a payroll issue.

 

Other than the possibility that the security of a large contract could lead to a subdued sense of the importance of each at bat in a long string of them. 

 

Maybe it's the Baseball Coach in me that is speaking out. 

[twinsnorth49]

I think it's pretty much between what you and Levi stated, during the regular season there is always tomorrow and playoff intensity is just too difficult to sustain for that period of time. The motivation to not have your season end once your in the playoffs is pretty strong.

 

I also don't think it's only baseball that suffers from it, any sport with a long schedule has the same issue. The NFL avoids it a bit by only having 16 games, with each one having significant playoff implications.

 

I can't imagine NHL players playing the whole season like the playoffs, they'd be dead.

[Otto von Ballpark]

I think it's pretty much between what you and Levi stated, during the regular season there is always tomorrow and playoff intensity is just too difficult to sustain for that period of time. The motivation to not have your season end once your in the playoffs is pretty strong.

Not only is it difficult to sustain in the regular season, it might actually be counter-productive.  While it is fun to see Arcia get fired up, these guys are professionals with a precise routine that they've honed for years.  Screaming before and after each of 600 PA all through the summer is probably an easy way to lose focus.

[Craig Arko]

I know my job makes me want to stand up and belt out The Sound of Music every damn morning.

[Seth Stohs]

Interesting topic. I like it.

 

Baseball has 162 games, and only 5 of 15 teams make the playoffs, and 2 of those teams have a one-game play-in. So, I think there is an excitement early in the season, but then it can get long, and then playoff contending teams' games are very exciting throughout August and September, and hopefully into October.

 

Hockey has a long regular season and about 1/2 of the teams make the playoffs and playoff seeding proves to mean pretty much nothing most of the time. 

 

I think the 162 game season tells us more about who the best teams in baseball are, but the excitement of the playoffs, the urgency certainly creates great excitement. I don't watch it, but it sure can for those fans.

 

On the other side, we often hear from a small minority of fans who get upset when the Twins have a walk-off win in September, and they well out of contention, and they excitedly jump on each other on the field. They're still playing and creating their own urgency for themselves and their teammates. So, if the effort is there from the players in the game, I don't feel ripped off at all.

[ashbury]

Maybe they should legalize anabolic steroids for ballplayers.  A little 'Roid Rage might enliven game 97.  I wonder if Gardy had been indulging, accounting for getting kicked out of so many games for arguing? 

 

Did you think Hicks wasn't going all out on every deep fly ball in center field, or Escobar didn't dive aggressively enough to snare hot grounders toward the middle?  Sounds like what you feel missing is the reaction from the player and his teammates after a success.  But an overwrought reaction in the middle innings in game 97 would seem very strange to me, except for a very outstanding play.  Walk-off wins do provide the team reaction you are looking for, right?  But a three-run homer in the bottom of the first inning, though a clear crowd pleaser, shouldn't be hyped by the players themselves for more than what it's worth in a very long season.

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

There's also danger of breaking one of those pesky "unwritten rules" if a player or team is too excited about a good play in the field.

[twinsnorth49]

Playoffs

 

 

Not playoffs

 

 

I ask you, where is the emotion? 

[JB_Iowa]

I always thought one of Gardy's greatest assets was his ability to maintain an even keel over the long season.  But the last few years the keel just listed,

 

Part of the biggest reason for okaying rookies is to add excitement,

[powrwrap]

I'm trying to make sense of this post. It is late July. The Twins are 43-54. You are claiming that because the players don't jump up and down when Oswaldo Arcia hits a 2 run HR in the fifth inning, the fans aren't getting full value for their partial season ticket purchase. Is that it?

 

And yes, it matters if the game takes 3 hr. 20 min. or 2 hr. 30 min. The Royals game on Saturday was nine innings and took 4 hours, 23 minutes, IIRC. I love baseball, but I could scarcely watch that game. Four hours?! Sheesh.

[Kwak]

Compare "the long season" or baseball, to your favorite musical act.  They often have long tours.  How would you feel if you had shelled out major dollars and they just went through the motions?

[abrdabrfan]

Well, when the season gets long and your team is not in the playoff picture, a lot of people stay home. That's why you see half empty stadiums.

Those that are there, are there because of their love of the game. They understand that every player can't be at high alert at every moment and maintain their sanity. They understand that players have good days and players have bad days, just like you do at work.

Every team has players that are high strung and energetic on every play. Every team also has players that are laid back and don't show a lot of outward emotion, regardless of the situation.

The nature of the game is there are going to be teams that are out of the race early. MLB has changed the configuration of the playoffs so that as many teams as possible can stay in the race for as long as possible. I think that has worked.

But back to my main point, if you love the game and the action on the field, you aren't  tuned into whether every player is as fired up as he should be, and you sure aren't worried about how long the game is, because you are enjoying every minute of it.

[USAFChief]

I sort of feel "ripped off" not because the players aren't trying, but because the results aren't important.

 

Watching sports is much more entertaining for me when I'M invested in the outcome. It's hard to do that when the results of any one game only mean the difference between finishing last by 5 games instead of 6.

[Riverbrian]

Maybe they should legalize anabolic steroids for ballplayers.  A little 'Roid Rage might enliven game 97.  I wonder if Gardy had been indulging, accounting for getting kicked out of so many games for arguing? 

 

Did you think Hicks wasn't going all out on every deep fly ball in center field, or Escobar didn't dive aggressively enough to snare hot grounders toward the middle?  Sounds like what you feel missing is the reaction from the player and his teammates after a success.  But an overwrought reaction in the middle innings in game 97 would seem very strange to me, except for a very outstanding play.  Walk-off wins do provide the team reaction you are looking for, right?  But a three-run homer in the bottom of the first inning, though a clear crowd pleaser, shouldn't be hyped by the players themselves for more than what it's worth in a very long season.

It's not simply overwrought reactions that I'm talking about... Although... I do like the fist pump attitude during any game... any inning... any situation. I think it's infectious.

 

I'm talking about the whole package. It's so completely noticeable watching the playoffs that It doesn't compare to June ball. Watch the batter's face when the ump calls a strike outside the zone... It's different. Nobody is coasting into second when the ball hits the gap. The diving play percentage goes up significantly. The manager is hooking pitchers at the first hint of trouble. At bats are not given away. The pitchers are steely-eyed and yes... The dugouts are overwroughtly reacting to a run scoring groundball single in the 2nd inning.

 

And Yes... The crowds are acting like animals and that can be fire fuel.

 

It's just noticeably different... And I'm wondering out loud if it should be.

[Riverbrian]

 

And yes, it matters if the game takes 3 hr. 20 min. or 2 hr. 30 min. The Royals game on Saturday was nine innings and took 4 hours, 23 minutes, IIRC. I love baseball, but I could scarcely watch that game. Four hours?! Sheesh.

As for TV broadcasts... When you consider the entire cume (audience size) of regular season games. Most have a problem watching baseball for 30 minutes and the lack of intensity of the game is part of the why in my opinion. The discussion of trying to get the length of the game down is nearly pointless. Since most people(Not us) are only watching an inning or two.

 

Weather the game lasts 3:45 or 3:20 only effects a small percentage of those who actually watch the entire game. In reality... The loss of 25 minutes shortens the window for accumulating short time viewers and those short time viewers add to the ratings.

 

For those attending games... The length of game is more of an issue granted but... Come playoff time... The length is less of a concern because... It's more intense. In my opinion.

[Riverbrian]

Compare "the long season" or baseball, to your favorite musical act.  They often have long tours.  How would you feel if you had shelled out major dollars and they just went through the motions?

I was always disapointed that I would never get to see Led Zeppelin in concert. They broke up when I was 15 years old. I'm a fan... I can sing along to every song from every album. I was sadly resigned to the thought that I would never see them.

 

In 1998... Page/Plant reunited and toured and Fargo was a stop. I was not going to miss this. I figured this would be the closest to seeing Zeppelin in concert.

 

I got front row tickets. 33 years old and I'm counting the days like a teenager.

 

Page was so wasted... I wished that I wasn't in the front row. He kept spitting and he sucked at it. The spit would come out of his mouth and hang there. It would get in his guitar strings. And then he would do it again. Spit... Hang... In the guitar strings. Finally break from his lips... Fall to the floor... And then again... Spit... Hang... Guitar strings. It got to the point that Robert Plant Couldnt even hold my attention. Page was a train wreck and its all I could see and that was my takeaway from a concert that I waited my entire life for.

 

To Jimmy Page... I assume it was Game 75 in Fargo North Dakota. To me... It was the waste of a lifetime.

[powrwrap]

As for TV broadcasts... When you consider the entire cume (audience size) of regular season games. Most have a problem watching baseball for 30 minutes and the lack of intensity of the game is part of the why in my opinion. The discussion of trying to get the length of the game down is nearly pointless. Since most people(Not us) are only watching an inning or two.

Weather the game lasts 3:45 or 3:20 only effects a small percentage of those who actually watch the entire game. In reality... The loss of 25 minutes shortens the window for accumulating short time viewers and those short time viewers add to the ratings.

 

For those attending games... The length of game is more of an issue granted but... Come playoff time... The length is less of a concern because... It's more intense. In my opinion.

Games that take 3 hours 30 minutes to play are, by definition, less intense than the same game played in 2 hours 30 minutes. The action is compressed in the shorter game time--more intense. I don't know how anyone could argue differently.

 

I'm a diehard baseball fan. This year I only watched one game from beginning to end and that was a game I attended (and I usually attend at least a half dozen games a year). I do not have four hours to set aside to watch players adjust wrist straps on batting gloves, rub baseballs while walking around the mound, pitchers continuing to peer in after the sign is given, holding their set position for a couple of seconds, batters stepping out of the batters box and take practice swings, click the bat on their heels, adjust cup, adjust helmet, dig into the box, etc. etc. etc. This is not intensity, this is boredom.

 

Playoff games are more intense because there is more on the line. Every game matters. The Cardinals/Giants game is on right now. It's been 2 1/2 hours and it's in the 6th inning. I switched it off. I'm not staying with this game for four hours. I can read about it tomorrow, watch highlights tomorrow.

 

I'm going to try to watch the World Series. I can tell you right now, unless the games are compelling, fast-paced, and interesting, I will be turning them off and watching something else. This is something I never thought I would do, but believe me, I'm fed up with the pace of games.

[twinsnorth49]

Games that take 3 hours 30 minutes to play are, by definition, less intense than the same game played in 2 hours 30 minutes. The action is compressed in the shorter game time--more intense. I don't know how anyone could argue differently.

 

I don't quite get what you're saying here, what do you mean by the same game? How can the same game take an hour longer than the other? 

 

The Royals-O's game on Saturday had 22 hits and 10 runs but was tied at 4 going into the top of the 9th. I wouldn't find that any less intense had the same game featured 5 hits and been 1-1 going to the ninth just because it would take less time.

[USAFChief]

I guess I don't see how this post season, to date, could have been any more intense.

 

Close games, extra innings, walk offs. Cinderella story in progress.