Sansevere: Next Manager Should Not 'Coddle' Mauer

[davidc3915]

I live in Chicago so I don't get all of the local take on Twins topics. I rely on twins daily and gleeman and the geek. That said, I always assumed mauer would move positions one day, as Joe Torre did, as Craig Biggio did and I assume buster posey will do one day. So it happened due to precautions being taken. To me it was just fufilling the destiny I always figured for Mauer

[DJL44]

Count me against moving Mauer anywhere else. I think 1B is the only position you can project him as even average defensively over the rest of his contract. There isn't another option at 1B who is a better defender either. If he's in the lineup he might as well be in the most suitable position defensively.

[stringer bell]

I don't think Mauer has been coddled in any way, you have a guy like him in your lineup you usually get out of his way and let him do his thing.

 

Having said that I would hope the new manager will not he afraid to challenge Joe to continue to evolve as a player.

How has Mauer "evolved"?  Honestly, I think he is a very similar hitter to when he arrived in the big leagues over 10 years ago. He's always taken a lot of pitches, hit the ball the opposite way, even inside-outing inside pitches.  My complaint is that he hasn't changed as the situation changes.  He won't swing at a 3-1 pitch that is just off the plate even if the bases are loaded and the pitcher is obviously losing it or Chris Herrmann is in the game hitting behind him.  He hasn't adjusted to the opponents' positioning on him.  He has been very good at what he does, but I do think it is time for him to adjust.

[jay]

If he's in the lineup he might as well be in the most suitable position defensively.

 

What's best for Joe Mauer isn't always what's best for the team.  He'd almost have to be a better OF defender than Willingham was and I'd argue better than Arcia.  Obviously better than Vargas or Pinto. 

 

If Joe has to play 1B, you're looking at forcing a corner OF alignment of Arcia and either Plouffe or Sano.

[Platoon]

I am not sure if coddled is the right word, but whatever the word, it seemed like he was given deferential treatment. Veterans do get some of that, but a manager always has to be careful not to overdo it. Nothing costs a manager credibility faster than that. Is Joe stubborn? Hitting everything including inside pitches down the LF line into a shift leaves one with two assumptions. He knows he cannot pull the ball in the air, or he is stubborn! Well there is a third, but I truly doubt Joe Mauer is stupid.

 

Joe did suffer from losing the catchers preferential strike zone when hitting. Umpires are loathe to ring up a catcher, especially one of his stature, with a borderline third strike. Then they have to listen to him ask for that pitch to be called a strike for his pitcher the rest of the game.

 

As for another position, third or left are options. Before this season third was my choice, but if Sano is close that's a waste of time. As for left, ask yourself this question. If Chris Parmalee, Josh Willingham and Oswaldo can play the outfield, what would make anyone think Joe cannot. Want to? Agree to? But he could play it.

[jay]

As for another position, third or left are options. Before this season third was my choice, but if Sano is close that's a waste of time. As for left, ask yourself this question. If Chris Parmalee, Josh Willingham and Oswaldo can play the outfield, what would make anyone think Joe cannot. Want to? Agree to? But he could play it.

 

Nailed it.  He's a better athlete than any of them.

 

I'm not convinced Joe has to move.  I just want it to be on the table as a readily available option if it's best for the team.

[DJL44]

If Joe has to play 1B, you're looking at forcing a corner OF alignment of Arcia and either Plouffe or Sano.

 

No, you're looking at trading Plouffe for a real outfielder which is a lot better than watching Mauer gradually get slower in the outfield.

[DJL44]

If Chris Parmelee, Josh Willingham and Oswaldo can play the outfield, what would make anyone think Joe cannot.

 

None of those guys are worth a damn in the outfield. Why do you want another bad outfielder when you could have an average first baseman instead?

[nicksaviking]

I care much less about where each of these non-optimal defenders play on the field than I do about getting the best nine bats in the lineup.

[HitInAPinch]

2015 Comeback player of the year --Joe Mauer. I'm not a big Mauer fan but this year had to be tough on his pride. I look for him to work hard this off-season and have a good season in 2015. I don't think the new manager will have to get tough on him because he will be tough on himself.

I hope he is the 2015 Comeback player of the year.  His true value to the team and his contract was as a catcher.  Sounds like he won't be that ever again.  In what I saw of him at 1st, he was stiff, at best.  And with many former catchers, hitting seems to fail when moved to another position.  Mauer plain MUST hit if he's going to be of value.  I'm waiting to see if Bruno can make that happen, but maybe a more aggressive coach like Chili Davis would be the answer.

[chopper0080]

What I know is Joe Mauer needs to stay healthy, and adjust his approach at the plate to put more emphasis in driving the ball.  I don't believe Mauer will ever be a power hitter, expecially in Target field, but I do believe Joe can develop his body in order to be more durable, and adjust his approach at the plate.

[SweetOne69]

I care much less about where each of these non-optimal defenders play on the field than I do about getting the best nine bats in the lineup.

 

I disagree.  You can't sacrifice Defense for Offense.  We had the 5th best offense in the AL this year, but had one of the worst OF defenses.  With our flyball pitching staff, that doesn't work very well.  We need to improve the defense even if that hurts the offense somewhat.

 

You need to find the best balance between offense and defense to be successful.

[Tuba]

I understand that you don't want him catching full time or even part time due to concussion risk, but I never understood why he couldn't serve as  the mythical emergency 'third catcher' Gardy had to have but rarely had to use. Surely in that role, the slightly elevated concussion risk at catcher is minimized over the few if any games he is actually needed. 

[Platoon]

None of those guys are worth a damn in the outfield. Why do you want another bad outfielder when you could have an average first baseman instead?

First of all he would be better than any of them, great arm, and in all likelihood faster than many think. I doubt Willingham, Arcia, et al were every considered the number one high school quarterback and baseball player of their class. So I was looking at Mauer the athlete. But, most of all the Twins have an excess of power hitters that could end up at 1B. This would make room for a couple of them. And lastly for a new guy at first he is probably already above average. The optimal situation is that he catch, and since that's not going to happen, make the best of it.

[Platoon]

I live in Chicago so I don't get all of the local take on Twins topics. I rely on twins daily and gleeman and the geek.

 

Hmmm, not exactly a good choice of informational resources!!

[Craig Arko]

"Ok, Joe. Give us the money back or we'll break your other brain." - Don Vito Sansevere.

[jay]

You can't sacrifice Defense for Offense.  We had the 5th best offense in the AL this year, but had one of the worst OF defenses.  With our flyball pitching staff, that doesn't work very well.  We need to improve the defense even if that hurts the offense somewhat.

 

You need to find the best balance between offense and defense to be successful.

 

Agreed.  In this case, it might be the best of both worlds.  Mauer at 1B puts Vargas at DH and Arcia in the OF. 

 

Who would be the better OF defender -- Mauer or Arcia?  My vote is Mauer.

[nicksaviking]

I disagree.  You can't sacrifice Defense for Offense.  We had the 5th best offense in the AL this year, but had one of the worst OF defenses.  With our flyball pitching staff, that doesn't work very well.  We need to improve the defense even if that hurts the offense somewhat.

 

You need to find the best balance between offense and defense to be successful.

 

No Gold Glovers are being sacraficed here, we're talking about differing degrees of subpar.

 

Besides, good offense will always trump good defense.  Everyone seems to think that the one ball a week that Arcia couldn't get but an average OF would get leads to a run.  It doesn't, it just leads to another baserunner; the other team still has to get the runner in. 

 

The Twins poor pitching compared to an average team's pitching has had a greater discrepency in extra baserunners allowed than the team's OF defense.  If we want to fix the problem, we need to start there.  It's like the difference between treating a disease instead of just going ahead and curing it. 

 

After reviewing the post, I realized my metaphor may have inadvertantly refered to the Twins rotation as a disease.  It was completely subconcious.  And I do not take it back.

[diehardtwinsfan]

well, I think the defense issue can be solved by a real CF and a good LF option. The Twins defense goes from horribly bad to pretty close to average as Arcia is really the only gaping defensive hole at that point. That's probably why I want Kemp so much. He can provide better than average offense and better than average defense in left. The CF can provide average to below offense with good defense. Hicks can get the call when he earns it.

 

As for the rotation, yes, they allowed too many runners... Problem is that the defense was a large part of that. That's what FIP is telling us at least... and the eye test concurs.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Mauer may have a history of being "coddled" but I didn't see it in 2014. Do I wish Mauer was still a catcher? Sure! Reasonable? No

[twinsnorth49]

How has Mauer "evolved"? Honestly, I think he is a very similar hitter to when he arrived in the big leagues over 10 years ago. He's always taken a lot of pitches, hit the ball the opposite way, even inside-outing inside pitches. My complaint is that he hasn't changed as the situation changes. He won't swing at a 3-1 pitch that is just off the plate even if the bases are loaded and the pitcher is obviously losing it or Chris Herrmann is in the game hitting behind him. He hasn't adjusted to the opponents' positioning on him. He has been very good at what he does, but I do think it is time for him to adjust.

"Evolve", "continue to evolve", semantics, you're splitting hairs maybe. The point is the same, a new manager should challenge Joe to embrace some change and evolve.

[stringer bell]

Maybe this needs a thread of its own.  What I saw in Mauer this year was that his tried and true hitting approach isn't working nearly as well as it did in the previous years.  As I stated before, he hits so many balls to left field that fielders have shifted over and he hasn't altered his spray chart by pulling more balls.  He is hitting more lazy fly balls (to left) and less line drives. 

 

Mauer struck out a career high and almost certainly would have fanned more than 100 times, if injuries had not limited him to 518 plate appearance.  I think this is evidence that he needs to adjust.  He has the talent, but he needs to commit to making substantial changes for the first time in his career.  I would say that he needs to start to evolve.

[stringer bell]

Eye test comment:  Joe Mauer is already a good first baseman.  Because he is 6'5" he has the largest reach of any Twins first baseman in their history.  He made a lot of diving stops and got much more comfortable on the first to pitcher plays as the season wore on.  He's becoming more instinctual on positioning for hitters and cutoffs.  In another year, he could be a Gold Glove candidate.

 

Could Mauer be adequate on an outfield corner?  I suppose, but it probably would take most of a season for him to get to that point.  There is no question that Mauer has slowed as a runner, so his range in the outfield wouldn't be a positive.  He does have a good arm, which could play at either outfield corner.

 

While I am an advocate of challenging the Twins' first baseman to be better than he was last year, I don't think moving him after one year as a first baseman is a smart decision. 

[Craig Arko]

What I saw of Joe Mauer this year suggested a guy who was completely shut down from August until February getting a handle on the concussion effects. I'm willing to reserve judgment until after he's had a full offseason workout routine behind him; i.e., starting now.