Blunt Comments from Gladden

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

If Dazzle Dan was the manager on this team, would they have more or fewer wins than they do under Ronnie G?

 

I like what Dazzle has to say, and I'd supoort him putting the cleats back on and joinging the coaching staff. Plus he'd be off the radio, and a color guy who actually tells you what's going on in the game might be hired in his place.

I've thought about this too. I think he's manager material though add him to the list of guys who won't ever get the chance.

[jharaldson]

What value is there in an all-pull guy trying to pull pitches on the outer half of the plate? I don't see how anyone could have a problem with a guy like Arcia pulling pitches that he can reach and going the other way with pitches he can't. If he's trying to pull outside pitches, he needs to change.

 

I don't have a problem with opposite field hitting being a tool in the toolbox.  I do have a problem with it being the only tool.  I did a search of the star tribune looking for gardenhire quotes regarding opposite field hits and pulling the ball.  I found 0 quotes in the past year where Ron Gardenhire positively endorsed a hitter pulling the ball but found several where he praised a hitter for going opposite field or ripped a guy for not doing so.  It would we be nice to hear some balance from this organization between teaching opposite field hitting and also teaching how to pull and drive the ball.  I think that is the point Gladden was trying to get to.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I've thought about this too. I think he's manager material though add him to the list of guys who won't ever get the chance.

 

Ugh. I don't think Gladden is manager material. While he can be right about specific problems the game has left him behind as a relic of the small ball era, as evidenced by the confusion he displayed over whether you want a higher OBP from your leadoff man or your cleanup man.

 

I mean... Come on. How can a guy not understand the basics of the modern game? Moneyball is what, 12 years old at this point? It seems like he could have picked it up and flipped through a handful of pages by now.

[LaBombo]

Ugh. I don't think Gladden is manager material. While he can be right about specific problems the game has left him behind as a relic of the small ball era, as evidenced by the confusion he displayed over whether you want a higher OBP from your leadoff man or your cleanup man.

 

I mean... Come on. How can a guy not understand the basics of the modern game? Moneyball is what, 12 years old at this point? It seems like he could have picked it up and flipped through a handful of pages by now.

Brock, you've been following the Twins franchise long enough to know that within it, being a former player affords certain entitlements, one of which is to disregard the baseball research of those who are not.

[twinsfan34]

You can't teach someone to pull or not pull.

 

 

You CAN say, dont try to pull that outside corner pitch...you'll, at best, roll over it and ground out somewhere.

 

And if you're getting pounded there...for strikes, you'll have to learn to hit it. OR like David Ortiz, creep up on the plate so that 'outside corner' pitch is now 'down the middle' of your swing plane...but now you have to be able to swing at inside pitches.

 

So it's a bit more about the pitch recognition AND the game plan the pitchers are using on you.

 

With Arcia, I feel he's not aware of what the pitcher was trying to do against him the in the previous at-bat and what that pitcher has found as successful. Tom Kelly, in maybe two broadcasts, I know at least one, he showed us what a hitter is supposed to be thinking/doing when he's up and when other teammate at hitting.

 

Is the guy having trouble locating his fastball...I believe Colin McHugh was pitching for the Astros...when TK was commenting. McHugh couldn't locate his fastball, something he normally pitches about 40% fastballs (brooksbaseball link) but because he couldn't locate his FB, he threw sliders about 60% of the time. Then location...he showed how it was tailing on him. Good hitters are better adjusted for their next at bats. The Twins, especially the young Twins, need to show improvement here. This is where a guy like Molitor is valuable in the dugout (although he's been at 1B a lot lately)...providing that mindset.

 

When Arcia is up there...he needs to look for a fastball counts. Willie Mays or even a guy who only hit at the high school level like myself, I had different swings and approaches based on the count. If a guy got me down 0-2 or if I was ahead 2-0. I had a 'pitch' I was looking for and I would 'load' my swing or shorten up based on those counts and the pitcher's strengths for that day/game.

 

I would like to see more of these improvements.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Ugh. I don't think Gladden is manager material. While he can be right about specific problems the game has left him behind as a relic of the small ball era, as evidenced by the confusion he displayed over whether you want a higher OBP from your leadoff man or your cleanup man.

 

I mean... Come on. How can a guy not understand the basics of the modern game? Moneyball is what, 12 years old at this point? It seems like he could have picked it up and flipped through a handful of pages by now.

 

Actually……..  I could have typed in everything you just said but didn't want to derail the thread.

 

He would definitely be the throwback old-school Gardy type of manager. I think he has certain people skills that would work. He's got a World Series ring or two on his resume. I agree with his original comments to this post. Etc etc. There is still a place for that type of guy in the right situation. 

 

But... yeah he is not a money ball guy. In addition to OBP, OSP, ESP, whatever that stat is  he whines about shifts constantly when they don't work, and changes the subject when they do work. He hates pitch counts. And so on.

 

Gladden might have worked as a manager somewhere with the right support staff. I think he's happy doing what he's doing though. 

[jay]

It's unfortunate to see Gladden attempting to advance this stereotype of the Twins' hitting approach.  A hitter that is looking to pull the ball all the time is going to get taken advantage of by MLB pitchers.  It might work in the minors, but it's rarely sustainable in MLB.

 

Ortiz, Gomez, and Hardy are commonly cited as guys the Twins tried to break by teaching them how to hit the other way when situationally appropriate.  The irony there is that when you look at their splits, Ortiz and Gomez had really good seasons after leaving the Twins by doing something... I'll let you decipher it yourself:

 

Ortiz, 2002 with Twins.  wRC+ by field: 259 to RF (pull), 66 to CF, 74 to LF

Ortiz, 2003 with Red Sox (breakout year).  wRC+ by field: 205 to RF (pull), 152 to CF, 149 to LF

Gomez, 2008 with Twins.  wRC+ by field: 183 to LF (pull), 45 to CF, 91 to RF

Gomez, 2013 with Brewers (breakout year).  wRC+ by field: 261 to LF (pull), 150 to CF, 154 to RF

 

For those unfamiliar with wRC+, it is a number weighted to league and park factors with 100 representing

league average offensive production.

 

Hardy is the exception and has stayed a 'true-pull' hitter.  This has given him 20 some homers most years which sounds great, but his overall offensive performances have varied above and below league average. 

[spanman2]

Kirby Puckett is a great example... He stayed inside the ball and hit line drive after line drive to right field (Jeter does the same thing)... but as Puckett matured as a player, he found pitches that he was able to turn on and pull for long home runs as well. 

Agree on both points.  I think the approach should be to the effect of: if the situation dictates it and you should go oppo field do it.  Having the ability to go oppo is a GOOD thing.  But if the ball is dead red and you can pull the ball and that is where your power zone is please PULL THE BLEEPING BALL!!!!! Don't try to go oppo just to say you can go oppo or because you feel obligated to because that is what you have been taught.  PULL the ball and hit OVER the fence!!!

[stringer bell]

I don't think it is as cut-and-dried as pulling the ball and "going oppo". The Twins thought (wrongly) that Ortiz couldn't be a really good hitter unless he used the whole field, they didn't much like Hardy's approach either (and his frequent injuries) and discarded them for little or nothing. More recently, the team seems to want Arcia to adjust, but celebrates the pull-power of Dozier.

 

I think it is, most of all, a matter of talent. Talented guys can adjust and get better, but less talented guys are what they are. Some times a change of scenery can help a player and that doesn't have much to do with coaching.

[TheLeviathan]

It's unfortunate to see Gladden attempting to advance this stereotype of the Twins' hitting approach.  A hitter that is looking to pull the ball all the time is going to get taken advantage of by MLB pitchers.  It might work in the minors, but it's rarely sustainable in MLB.

 

Ortiz, Gomez, and Hardy are commonly cited as guys the Twins tried to break by teaching them how to hit the other way when situationally appropriate.  The irony there is that when you look at their splits, Ortiz and Gomez had really good seasons after leaving the Twins by doing something... I'll let you decipher it yourself:

 

Ortiz, 2002 with Twins.  wRC+ by field: 259 to RF (pull), 66 to CF, 74 to LF

Ortiz, 2003 with Red Sox (breakout year).  wRC+ by field: 205 to RF (pull), 152 to CF, 149 to LF

Gomez, 2008 with Twins.  wRC+ by field: 183 to LF (pull), 45 to CF, 91 to RF

Gomez, 2013 with Brewers (breakout year).  wRC+ by field: 261 to LF (pull), 150 to CF, 154 to RF

 

For those unfamiliar with wRC+, it is a number weighted to league and park factors with 100 representing

league average offensive production.

 

Hardy is the exception and has stayed a 'true-pull' hitter.  This has given him 20 some homers most years which sounds great, but his overall offensive performances have varied above and below league average. 

 

While that's true about Ortiz continuing to use all fields, you have to remember how this works in action.  It isn't that the Twins didn't let him pull the ball, it's that they asked him to back down on trying to hard to pull with authority.  

 

Where you see the spike for Ortiz from 2003 on isn't in how his spray chart looks...it's in how he went from being mostly a line drive hitter with some flyballs to being a balanced flyball/line drive guy.  That's where the power surge came from - he was not only turning on balls but he was allowed to unload on them as well.  When you're worried about plate coverage and going the opposite way, I can see how that would limit the authority you swing with on inside pitches.

[Riverbrian]

Adam Dunn and David Ortiz have gorilla arms. Gomez has crazy bat speed and wrists.

 

So does Arcia and when all is said and done, he might have gorilla arms as well.

 

The same approach doesn't work for every player. You'd have a hell of a time convincing me that Dunn, Gomez, and Ortiz would be better players if they used the entire field. What's more likely is that they'd see their power decline. Sometimes those homers and doubles come on pitches they "should" be spraying oppo.

 

 

Strong Dudes like them would simply add opposite field dingers to the repertoire and Ortiz was at his best when he was doing just that.

 

One size never fits all but every hitter is better off if they can take a pitch the other way on occasion... In my opinion.

 

I tell you what I really want now... If Someone could post a pic of Adam Dunn with Gorilla Arms. That would be awesome. Snepp?

[stringer bell]

I think Gomez is a different case than the other guys listed here. The conflict was whether he should be a speed guy or a middle-of-the-order hitter. His stay in Minnesota was a mish-mash of bunts and wild swings. He never developed enough patience to work the count or draw walks.

 

Obviously, the Twins wanted Go-Go to utilize his 80 speed, but it is really, really tough for a RH hitter to be a great on-base guy. Despite his great speed, Gomez isn't that fast to first. I'll bet there are a number of much slower hitters who get more infield and bunt hits and plenty of guys who ground into fewer double plays.

Gomez has emerged as a masher and fine defender for a pennant contending Brewers squad. Good for him. To me, the problem with Gomez had more to do with waiting for maturity than it had to do with hitting approach.

[70charger]

 

 

I tell you what I really want now... If Someone could post a pic of Adam Dunn with Gorilla Arms. That would be awesome. Snepp?

Brad Swanson.

 

It'll be MS Paint, not Photoshop, but you know we'll still laugh.

[snepp]

MS Paint is all you'd get from me as well.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

I guess what I was trying to say is that there is very little precedent for players actually 'learning' strike zone judgement, so the only real choice you have is seeing if they can learn to use the opposite field.

could not disagree with you more. Every player who lasts more than a few years in the majors learns strike zone judgement. If players did not learn strike zone judgement, we'd be watching the equivalent of little league on tv.

 

Players like Ortiz learn to foul off pitches they can't hit, but know that the ump would call it a strike if they didn't swing. That's another tool, in addition to going oppo and dead pull. As has been echoed, don't take a hammer after a Phillips head screw. But darn it, if you have a nail, hammer the crap out of it.

[JB_Iowa]

I tell you what I really want now... If Someone could post a pic of Adam Dunn with Gorilla Arms. That would be awesome. Snepp?

 

[Riverbrian]

Awesome and he seems to have Psychokinesis ability as well. 

[nicksaviking]

Ugh. I don't think Gladden is manager material. While he can be right about specific problems the game has left him behind as a relic of the small ball era, as evidenced by the confusion he displayed over whether you want a higher OBP from your leadoff man or your cleanup man.

 

I mean... Come on. How can a guy not understand the basics of the modern game? Moneyball is what, 12 years old at this point? It seems like he could have picked it up and flipped through a handful of pages by now.

 

You talking about Gladden or Gardenhire?  Gardy still refers to it as Cybermetrics last I saw.

 

Going the other way is a nice tool to have, but everyone is acting like it's no big deal and can easily be accomplished by every hitter.  It often requires recognizing that the pitch is going to be on the outer half of the plate very early and then staying back on the pitch.  That can be a tall order for some of these guys.  It would be great if everyone could hit to all fields with no expense to their pull power, but not everyone can.  Mauer in his prime seemed to consciously sacrifice his power so he could stay back on the pitches and use all fields and few are considered as good as a hitter as Mauer was in his heyday.  

 

Hypothetically, if gaining 15% in contact rate also costs Arcia 15% of his power, are we good with that?  I'm not.

[JB_Iowa]

Awesome and he seems to have Psychokinesis ability as well. 

 

Best I could do.  Gorillas don't often seem to put themselves in a batting stance.  

[Kwak]

Pull the ball, spray the ball.  Hmm, who gets paid more money?  This is professional baseball!  HR hitters or BAVG types.  All those pictures of Dunn--he gets paid $15MM per year to hit HRs, zip for baserunning, throwing, and defense--and typically with a BAVG that would get most players demoted/released.  He is/was not the only example of pay for HRs.

 

I have read where posters advocate Dozier to "spray the ball"  to increase in BAVG 40 pts--yet ignore that many HRs would become singles or doubles.  Teams pay gigantic salaries for HR hitters--especially those that can play a position, but the BAVG-only guys get paid a lot less.  Last  night's game swung on Dozier's liner to left hooking just foul (with 2 runners on-base).  A "spray" hitter, laces a clean single to CF.  Those 3-run HRs are huge!  So much so that Lester played "safe" and walked Dozier rather than risk the HR.

 

Oh, and Dozier will eventually get paid a baseball-ton-of-money because of his HR proclivity despite a sub-par BAVG.