TopGunn#22

This is not a bad gamble. But the Twins still have a LOT of heavy lifting to do to shore up that rotation. You don't sign Buxton long term without an expectation to compete for the division title next year. Bundy will help...but the Twins now need to acquire 3 more starting pitchers via trade (unless they sign Carlos Rodon, but our ownership and FO is SO risk averse there's just no way that happens). I don't think Danny Duffy would be a bad gamble for the right price and Pineda is still out there. Signing Pineda and trading for two SP's (maybe a GOOD one like Montas or Castillo) would hearten Twins fans across the upper midwest.

I tendered everyone but Cotton. All the others have earned what they would be getting. We have the makings of a pretty decent bullpen if we can just get a "stopper" at the back end. I'm bringing everyone back and trying to get Cotton on a cheaper deal.

This is disappointing. As was the Seattle signing of Robbie Ray for 5 yrs and $115 million. That's $23 million a year, something the Twins could easily have matched or exceeded for the reigning A.L. Cy Young Award Winner if they were truly "IN" on Ray. As was allowing the extremely aggressive Texas Rangers to sign Jon Gray. Look, Miami simply has to trade some of their incredible stash of young SP's. It's their perfect opportunity to determine who they're willing to part with and what holes they want to plug. We were a perfect match for them with Jeffers or Garver while also having Kepler or Larnach. The table was set for a meal. Our FO just forgot what time dinner was. As tony&rodney pointed has pointed out, Oakland and the Brewers remain as trade partners as do the Reds with Castillo, Sonny Gray and Mahle. But I expect some teams that haven't done much yet (Dodgers, Yankees) who have DEEP pockets to make some noise pretty soon.

Good point cjm0926 ! It would make more sense to re-imagine the trade for Peraza.

What a terrible thing to say. Glad the administrator has resigned as well. With an attitude like that, he doesn't belong in that position. Best of luck to the kid in the future. Keep a good attitude !! Keep working hard !!

Yup, mistake on my part. Sorry for the confusion Squirrel. Thanks for the pick-me up tony&rodney.

Kluber signing with Tampa is VERY interesting. A great move by the Marlins to get a former CY Young vet to help their young guns. it also shows me Miami is READY to deal some pitching. They already had quite a surplus BEFORE the Kluber signing. Let's see...Jeffers, Kepler, Larnach, Rooker...wonder what Miami wants and what they'd be willing to give up.

Ray would be my #1 target Mike 8791, but Rodon at 3-years and $60 would be a great move and allow the Twins to have an "Ace" at the top of their rotation (if indeed Rodon is first half 2021 all year) while also allowing some young pitchers to develop and ascend to the major league roster. My formula for the Twins pitching staff: A Big FA signing like Ray or Rodon, a secondary signing like Jon Gray and a trade or two that brings in 2-3 additional SP's. They need a minimum of FOUR SP's since Ryan/Ober are really just "one slot" in the rotation. Now that Buxton is done, the Twins FO needs to pivot FAST and make some noise.

Well ! This is just what the Doctor order ! (not sure if that's Dr. Gast or Doc Bauer) !!! A big chunk of faith in our FO is restored for me, except if I can nitpick, WHAT TOOK SO LONG ?!?! This is JUST the type of contract that benefits both the Twins and Buxton. NOW: We need to acquire some pitchers !! But the biggest question of the off season is answered and the FO can get busy. To me, this shows ownership and the FO believe they can compete for the division title next year. And being in the A.L. Central that should be the expectation. They have 3 days to make another splash before things come to a screeching halt. Wonder what their next move will be ??

I had the same thought Karbo (no relation to Bernie Carbo ??) Kepler and another highly thought of prospect (maybe Jeffers ?) for one of their young SS's and Severino. I think Severino is a great "buy low" candidate. For a team like the Yankees, the pressure to win (and win big) is always a trump card that has to be played. Can the Yanks be patient with Severino ? Can they be patient with both of their young SS's ? The Yanks are TRYING to employ more patience recently, but they haven't won a World Series since Jeter. JeeTah !! And it's true the Yanks also need a catcher. If we added our SS of the future (and possibly the NOW) in a deal with the Yanks and bought a lottery ticket with Severino I would be O.K. with that trade. I'd want to sign Severino to a guaranteed 4-5 year contract to make sure we had him for more than 1-2 years though. So here's your trade: Yankees get: Kepler 23.6, Jeffers 19.2, Canterino 9.6, Strotman 3.9, Wallner 3.6 and Rooker 1.7 = 61.60 Twins get: Volpe 46.4, Luis Severino 11.40, and Luke Voit 3.1 = 60.90. This opens up a possible trade of Sano or Donaldson.

The shift bugs me, but I agree, what bugs me MORE is how unwilling/unable/disinterested most hitters are to defeat the shift. For me, my #1 rule change IS and ALWAYS has been ...UNIVERSAL DH !!! It's always annoyed me that the 2 leagues do not play by the same rules and in Post Season it can cause some "weird stuff." It looks like I may FINALLY get my wish. We'll see.

Both debaters did excellent work. My opinion always has been and will continue to be, is that to win in the Post Season, you've got to PITCH! Great hitting can really benefit a team over 162 games because, for the most part it's "consistent." It's always there. Even when the Twins were setting a major league record for HR's, they were still pitching at a high level. The flaw in the Twins that season was that their "all or nothing---swing for the fences" mentality on offense eventually got shut down by elite pitching in the Post Season. Anytime the Twins (in particular) have been good, throughout their history, they have pitched well. One reason those great Brooklyn Dodger teams were only able to beat the Yankees in ONE World Series was that Dodger pitching was always somewhat inferior to Yankee pitching. And in 1955 Dodger pitching out did the Yankees. And as others have pointed out, pitching staff's "transform" once the Post Season starts. Some of the more inferior arms are pushed further back and the best arms get the majority of innings. In the Post Season teams with "elite arms" can do MORE with LESS. It's a great discussion point, but the days of building deep starting staffs like the Orioles and Dodgers did in the 60's thru 80's are gone. Bullpen's are radically different due to the way starting rotations are so over-managed with pitch counts and innings limits. Another good debate would be "what kind of pitching staff should be constructed to simply get a team to the playoffs where that staff could then be reimagined into a Post Season juggernaut?

Plus, the players that cheated got PAID. That should be all the "reward" they are allowed. Look, I'm a very "traditional" kind of guy. The whole PEDs thing just has always rubbed me the wrong way. My son, whose opinion I respect a lot is of a different mind set, played High School and Legion baseball against some guys whose bodies certainly changed a little too rapidly for at least "some" suspicion to linger. We debate this in a good natured way all the time. I've even given him an autographed Barry Bonds bat (after I acquired a Hank Aaron autographed bat) and told him "you can keep the Bonds bat or sell it, but you can't sell it until he's elected to the HOF because the bat will be worth a lot more once he is." I think eventually ALL the cheaters will get in. I think if they do, an *asterisk* would be appropriate. I will say, that no matter what, it's hard to ignore what Barry Bonds accomplished. Of all the cheaters, he did the most with it. In looking the list over, I wondered why Schilling's name was on it. I don't recall ever hearing his name mentioned as a PED cheater. And as an American, he's granted the right of free speech. It's a right that is fundamental to our Republic. Anyone is free to agree or disagree with what he says because we're "Americans." If he had pitched in China, he'd already be disappeared and there would be no talk of him for any Hall of Fame or any other purpose for that matter. He'd be gone and all memory of him would be erased. But he's an American. He's also one of the greatest post-season pitchers in the history of baseball. He should already be in.

Why the Twins FO has dithered on this for so long is a question the average fan cannot answer. Remember when we Twins fans basically had the conversation "If you had to choose between Buxton and Berrios, who would YOU choose??" Well, it was a spirited debate but I believe the winner was Buxton. It wasn't "massively" in favor of Buxton, but he WAS the player most here on TD would have chosen. And this was with our starting rotation in a total shambles. The reason Buxton won out was because his talent (when healthy) is top 10 in baseball. Berrios was no where near a top 10 pitcher. So the Twins "appeared" to make their choice and traded Berrios to Toronto for two very nice looking prospects. I believed the trade was a good one at the time and I still do. Time may prove me wrong, but Martin and Woods-Richardson could be outstanding players for the Twins in the future. Now however, the Twins FO seems to be stumbling and bumbling with what that strategy was supposed to be. As fans, we still have no idea how they and the Pohlad's view this team for 2022. There is nothing close to a "clear vision" coming out of the ivory towers of Twins leadership and I'm not sure ownership or the FO sees that for the problem it is. We play in the A.L. Central. There is no reason, given the talent still on the team and the resources that could be leveraged, that the Twins SHOULD be a contender in 2022 despite the fact that the White Sox are "ALL IN" on burying us next year and for years to come. Buxton is the key to everything. he's the type of player that should be the foundation of what the Twins want to be for the next 8-10 years. He appears to be coming into his own. You can just tell when you see him at the plate...this is a different cat than what we've seen previous. He is confident and has a plan. Remember when Paul Molitor kept getting hurt early in his career. And then, he just kind of cleared that hurdle all the way to a Hall of Fame career, helping the Blue Jays to back to back World Series championships and being named World Series MVP in one of them. I believe Buxton is going to clear that same hurdle and be relatively healthy going forward. This ownership and FO need to step up and get this deal done. As I mentioned earlier, the lack of clarity from both as to 2022 and their vision is dumping water on any fire there might be for 2022. When a two time defending A.L. Central team crashes and burns to a last place divisional finish, the FO and ownership need to be correcting the flaws and making moves to get the team in a position to fire up the fanbase. Failure to do this will ensure a disaster revenue-wise for the team next season. Fans will continue to be soured on the commitment of ownership and the FO to not only provide a good team/good product but to keep good, homegrown talent on the roster. And wasn't that the entire premise of building Target Field anyway ??

I agree Dr. Gast. that's how I value them as well. It depends on what the ownership and the FO have assed as the Twins "chances" in the division for 2022. If they want to challenge for the division, they should go for a blockbuster and swing this trade: Arraez 33.3 Rooker 1.7 Varland .50 = 35.5 for Manaea 18.5 and Bassitt 17.0 = 35.0 I'd probably throw in another prospect and make it a slight overpay. This trade is to add both QUALITY and QUANTITY (because the Twins need BOTH). Then I would re-sign one or both depending on how well they pitch and how the young SP's in the system are developing. If I'm aiming more for 2023 I do a different blockbuster: Arraez 33.3 Canterino 9.6 and Strotman 4.5 1.7 = 47.7 for Frankie Montas 44.1. Montas is the best of the bunch and he's controlled for a few years so no stress to resign him immediately after the 2022 season. Adding Montas to Maeda and whatever SP we aquire this off season as well as the continued development of our young SP's could prove to be a very competitive rotation in 2023. But is Buxton in Minnesota or somewhere else ???

I'm with you on this Doc Bauer. I wasn't, until I read your take. I was already in panic mode but you somewhat talked me off the ledge. I don't understand why at least Pineda isn't resigned yet. If DeSclafani and Wood going back to the Giants was obvious shouldn't Pineda back to the Twins be so as well ? I mean heck ! We've got TWO rookies in our rotation who will both be on innings limits. Two guys. That's it ! Graveman 3 years for $24 million would have been a great move for the Twins. They could have made him the closer and decided whether to keep Rogers or deal him (the Mets have "Eyes" for Rogers according to Rotoworld). Instead, he goes to the White Sox to be a set up man for Hendricks ? I'm frustrated. But Doc has given me some medicine to calm me down. At least through Thanksgiving.

Heck, just popped over to Rotoworld and lo and behold the White Sox have signed Kendall Graveman for 3-years $24 million total. I guess with Liam Hendricks they needed a closer more than we did. It was also noted that the Mets "have eyes" for Taylor Rogers. Finally, there was NO mention of anyone the Twins were interested in because according to our Front Office: "We're still getting our plan and priorities in order." I suppose we can check back with the Twins FO in a couple of months. Maybe closer to spring training or possibly when they are ABSOLUETLY sure there is indeed a collective bargaining agreement.

Didn't realize that Maeda and Suzuki were former teammates on the carp. That doesn't hurt at all. I'd still rather take a chance on Clint Frazier for cheap and save more money for pitching.

I am a firm "NO" on Ortiz because of the steroid issue. He used the stuff, plain and simple. So I'm against anybody with that taint getting in. That said, I realize I'm a minority opinion. My son is of the exact opposite opinion and we have good back and forth conversations about it. I figure guys like me will eventually be drowned out by the prevailing opinion. When that happens, I agree with with tony&rodney...the first guy that has to go in is Barry Bonds. What he did (while cheating in my opinion) is "RUTHIAN." In fact, it should really be called "BONDSIAN." Nobody did what Barry Bonds did, so he has to be first in line. Then stinkin' A-Rod, McGwire, Sosa, Clemens, Manny Ramirez, Palmiero, Ortiz, and all the rest of the cheaters can see the gates of heaven opened to them. But Bonds goes in first. Have the Twins signed a PITCHER YET ?!?!?!?

It always comes down to cost and how the team employs their resources. I haven't seen anything noted about a "ballpark" for what it would take to sign him. Keeping in mind that pitching is the primary asset that needs to be acquired thru trades and FA he would certainly be a nice addition. But pitching and SS would be bigger priorities. Since signing Buxton is STILL the #1 off season priority (or as we here on TD certainly feel that way) I'd like our FO to get off their fat behinds and make some QUICK progress on Buxton and a pitcher before the weekend.

And this comes on the heels of the Yankees releasing a player with FAR MORE potential than Cave...Clint Frazier. Is our FO REALLY this impotent ?? You don't guarantee ANYTHING to a guy who didn't even hit his weight last year (and he doesn't weigh anything close to Sano). No wonder Cave took the guarantee rather than go to arbitration.

I agree 100% with Ace Wrigley and have been thinking about Clint Frazier being released by the Yankees ever since rumors were swirling that it might happen. Why our FO felt the need to "lock up" Cave when a player of Frazier's potential would eventually become available is mind numbing. Personally, I believe the Yanks are giving up on Frazier too soon. It's a classic case in the Big Apple of just churning thru players far too quickly. Frazier has 30-HR potential and is capable of playing at least as good a CF as Cave. He would be a PERFECT buy low candidate for the Twins as a 4th OF'er who COULD end up as your starting LF'er and possible backup for Buxton. My question beyond Cave is this: What are Falvey&Levine waiting for ?? Sign Frazier and either dump Cave (unlikely now) or Thorpe. I'm tired of the bargain bin diving, but Frazier is JUST the type of gamble this team needs to take with a pitching staff in shambles.

I think I'd rather go after a couple of pitchers from the A's (Montas, Bassitt, Manaea, Kaprillian) than Chapman. I think the guy to deal is Arraez. Sending him as the centerpiece of a package to Oakland could bring Bassitt AND Manaea to the Twins. Good Lord, our starting rotation is two rookies who will be on innings limits in 2022. Bassitt and manaea would be quality AND quantity. The idea that you could sell high on Miranda right now is logical. I'd rather replace Arraez with Miranda and sell high on Arraez.

I've always said, if Buxton is simply "playing" the benefit will be there for the Twins. That's why 7-years for $105 million ($15 base salary) and incentives simply for "Games Played" is a very LOGICAL strategy for the Twins. Buxton is just starting to come into realizing his talent. He really only needs "health" and the results/payoff will be there. This is not rocket science. It is easy math. I agree with what tony&rodney pointed out earlier. Baldelli is not any better as a manager than Paul Molitor was. In fact, I think Molitor was better. But Rocco was supposed to embrace "analytics" and that's what Falvey & Levine were supposed to do as well. The Pohlad's wanted a FO that was analytic driven, probably to justify capping what the payroll would be. Supposedly then, the Pohlad's could point to the "analytics" and say, "we simply can't pay (insert player X) that much money. The analytics don't allow it." Minneapolis/St. Paul is the 15th largest TV market in the nation. But the narrative we've been fed for decades is that the Twins are a "small market team." Not true. We should be middle of the pack at worst. I understand how the payroll could rise and fall within certain parameters depending on our ability to "contend." But in the A.L. Central, to not have a chance to "compete" means you've let the roster go to pot in a very bad way. Tony&Rodney is right. The ability to re-sign a major part of your team like Buxton or Berrios really isn't so much a FO decision as it is a commitment (or lack thereof) by OWNWERSHIP.

I agree, he'd be a MUCH better use of a roster spot than Cave. I'd still like to explore Adelberto Mondesi from the Royals but as was pointed out, Goodrum can fill in at seven positions and I didn't realize he was that good a gloveman at SS. It's an interesting thing to consider.