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    Ninth Wonder: What To Do At Closer?


    Nick Nelson

    When you're coming off a 100-loss season, the foremost concern is, flatly, finding ways to get more victories, as opposed to identifying someone who can close them out.

    Still, the Twins need to figure out what they're going to do about the ninth inning in 2017.

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    They have a three-time All-Star closer on their staff, but unfortunately they can't count on him. Glen Perkins is coming back from a daunting surgery to reattach his shoulder labrum, and if he returns anywhere close to his previous level of effectiveness, he'll be beating the odds.

    In the latest update on the 33-year-old's recovery via Mike Beradino of the Pioneer Press, the only word was that Perkins is "making progress" several months after his operation. It still doesn't sound like he's throwing. Paul Molitor was measured in his assessment:

    “We all know the odds and the numbers on those surgeries for people, and we’re just hoping for the best,” Molitor said. “I think they’ve been relatively pleased with the recovery from the surgery and the injury.”

    Of course, "hoping for the best" is not where you want to be with the most traditionally important spot in the bullpen. The Twins need contingencies. In fact, they need more than that. Even if his rehab goes smoothly and he looks strong and healthy heading into spring training, the Twins should have someone else lined up for the ninth so that they can ease him back in. Evaluate Perk's post-surgery effectiveness during the early months, and assign him accordingly.

    (I will add here that even if Perkins is somehow able to return to his peak dominance, I still would prefer not to return him to the closer role, in a strict sense. This postseason has only reinforced the way such a limiting usage pattern provides a competitive disadvantage. The Orioles fell out early because they were too fixated on using Zach Britton in a save opportunity. Meanwhile, the Indians have thrived while utilizing Andrew Miller as a true flexible bullpen ace.)

    Even with my stated feelings on the above, I can't deny the importance of having a closer in place. And without question, the Twins also recognize it. They may evolve under new leadership in the front office, but they're not going to suddenly become a team that eschews the mainstream and puts no effort into designating a reliable and experienced ninth-inning guy.

    Perhaps that guy is already on the roster. The first big test – and barometer – for Derek Falvey and his new general manager will be an earnest evaluation of Brandon Kintzler. The veteran right-hander was a classic Terry Ryan relief reclamation story, turning from minor league free agent signing into bullpen staple.

    Kintzler was more than adequate while filling in as closer in the second half. He threw strikes, induced lots of grounders and kept the ball in the yard. In all, he converted 17 of 20 save chances, and that sounds just fine.

    But let's not forget that Kintzler was replacing Kevin Jepsen, whom the Twins had no choice but to drop after he performed dreadfully for three months. They made the mistake of putting too much faith in Jepsen based on his short run of success in the previous second half. Are they going to do the same with Kintzler, who was considerably less impressive?

    This is a good opportunity for the restructured front office to differentiate itself by being proactive rather than reactive. Head into next season with a plan that offers concrete long-term upside. There are plenty of ways to do so.

    One way would be installing J.T. Chargois in the role. He was a closer in college, and in the minors. After shaking off some initial rookie struggles, he looked the part of a shutdown late-inning arm down the stretch with Minnesota. At this point in time, he undoubtedly profiles as the heir apparent behind Perkins.

    But this feels like skipping a step. Chargois still only has 25 major-league appearances. Throwing him into the fire so quickly could prove detrimental. Why not take it a bit slower and let him work his way up? This would be a more characteristic Twins approach.

    Another idea, and one that I don't expect to happen, would be giving Michael Tonkin a shot. He's coming off a rough campaign and is out of options. The Twins need to figure out what they have in him. They may already feel they know, following a 5.02 ERA during his first full year in an MLB bullpen, but that work came in an unfamiliar long relief role.

    Tonkin was at his best when he was a Triple-A closer. Why not give him the reins – even with a short leash – then see how his body and confidence respond?

    Look, I know many are unimpressed with what they've seen from Tonkin. But his minor-league numbers, and his ability to throw the ball past big-league hitters, are rare finds within a Minnesota bullpen. The team is much better served showing patience with a hurler like him than feeding innings to guys like Kintzler and Jepsen.

    However, I do understand that players like Chargois and Tonkin fall short in one important category: experience. Neither has any, as a closer, in the major leagues. One might argue this doesn't matter too much given the level of expectation this team will have next year, but if Molitor is focused on winning a whole lot more games, he will probably want an option that makes him a little more comfortable at the end.

    There is a path to both experience AND long-term upside in the role. It only requires that the Twins take an aggressive tack with some free agents that may carry significant risk.

    The relief market offers a few excellent buy-low chances, which should particularly appeal to a Minnesota team that can afford to take some gambles.

    Neftali Feliz is one such candidate. Back in 2010, the righty won Rookie of the Year while saving 40 games for the Rangers, and he added 32 more the following season. Then, Texas tried shifting him to the rotation, and he got hurt and underwent Tommy John surgery. His frequent trips to the disabled list led to a lukewarm free agent market last winter before he signed with Pittsburgh on a one-year, $3.9 million deal.

    Feliz looked good as a setup man with Pittsburgh. His fastball velocity was as high as it's been since 2011, and he averaged 10.2 K/9 while holding opponents to a .207 average. Still only 28, he presents the rare free agent combination of youth, closing experience, and an extremely high ceiling. The Twins won't be Feliz's – or any coveted player's – first choice with all things being equal, but money talks.

    If they want to find similar benefits but don't want to spend as much, the Twins could pursue Drew Storen. Unlike Feliz, he's not coming off a strong year, and in fact he's had a rough go of it in general lately. But he is a former 40-save closer who is younger than the typical FA at 29, and for the most part he has been an effective backend bullpen arm in his career. He has the potential to be a closer or a standout setup guy. The Twins could use either.

    One final free agent name to monitor: Greg Holland. He notched 125 saves with a 1.97 ERA from 2013 through 2015 with the Royals, but sat out the 2016 season following Tommy John surgery. He will be 16 months removed from that operation on Opening Day next year, so he's a relatively safe bet. Holland might be predisposed to return to Kansas City but, again, money talks.

    Ultimately, the point is that the Twins should be viewing their open closer job as an opportunity rather than a burden. There's no reason to spend big on a premier name like Aroldis Chapman or Kenley Jansen, but there's really no reason to run with someone like Kintzler who will do nothing but keep the seat warm. Aim higher.

    What would be your preferred blueprint for addressing the ninth inning with Perkins in limbo?

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    We have to wait to see the direction the new front office will be going. Otherwise, as it MAY be a total rebuilding team, closer by committee is the answer. You either have to look at someone being the closer of the future or not at this point.

     

    Perk can still close. Kintzler can close (both should be 8th inning set-up guys at first). But closers tend to be made, rather than come up thru a system.

     

    Sadly, our closer of the future might just be...dare I say...Jose Berrios!

     

    Look at the record of similar guys!

     

    Right now, the Twins NEED to see what they have developing in folks like Zack Jones, Nick Burdi, Jake Reed, Tom Hildenberger and others. they NEED A PLAN. They will need to establish roles for guys over the next 3-5 seasons if they build from within AND THEN supplement any weaknesses with outside help.

     

    But until the team is winning and a bonafide closer needs to pitch, say, two out of three days somewhat consistently (like winning streaks), you can try to mix and match a little.

     

     

    I don't really understand the aversion to spending the Pohlad's money. I don't think their budget is strained, and there won't be any new money spent on SP or the lineup this next year. So who cares about a few extra bucks spent on the bullpen?

     

     

    I think the aversion is to spending money on long term deals, when you are this far from competing, and when you have about 10 legit RP prospects in AA and AAA and maybe even A ball that could pitch here next year...

    Based on the limited exposure during a save opportunity, any decent pitcher can convert them at nearly the same success rate as a high-paid closer - it is one of the most over-valued positions in baseball. The Twins realized this years ago when they converted guys like Guardado, Nathan, and Perkins - who were not closers - into very serviceable back-end guys. DO NOT spend money on a closer. Spend it in general on good middle relief and find a decent option from that group.

    Seems like Kinzler is the guy you want to come in when there are guys on 1st and 2nd with less than two out.   His sinker gets double plays and he has good control.    I am not saying it would have turned their season around but Perkins and Jepsen blew at least 5 save chances before the Twins even won 10 games so I am guessing the negative psychological effects and the actual 5 blown saves and no good outings from two guys that were expected to be good was significant.    Sorry for the run on sentence.  

    Considering I was relying on Perkins, Jepsen and May to be good and they were essentially horrible and then non factors I thought the pen was decent once they were gone.   Not good but better than I expected from filler roles.

    May should be a starter.   He is a decent reliever but has no dominant pitches.   HIs good mix of fastball, changeup, curve ball and great control speaks toward efficient innings eater.    

     

    I think the aversion is to spending money on long term deals, when you are this far from competing, and when you have about 10 legit RP prospects in AA and AAA and maybe even A ball that could pitch here next year...

     

    I'd agree with that, but I don't think hardly anyone is seriously advocating for a long-term big money FA for the bullpen. Nick's suggestions, and most of those I've seen in this thread, were talking about buy-low 1- or 2-year deals on bounce-back veterans. With the additional consideration that said veteran could be flipped for trade value if they reestablish themselves. Any thoughts of getting a Jansen/Chapman type sounded pretty tongue-in-cheek to me.

    Couldn't disagree more. Rigid roles is a thing of the past, imo.

     

    Also, no reason some of those last few names can't start in MN, imo. What more can they do in the minors at this point?

    When I talk about roles, I don'the say they have to be "rigid" necessarily, other than a closer closing. But Tonkin, as an example, seemed to be used very much out of his element as a mid/long reliever often. We've seen O'Rourke be used oddly before as well. I think relievers work better when used to their strength, and with an idea when and how they will usually be used.

     

    I also see no reason why some of the other names I listed couldn't begin the year with the Twins. My initial list is just that, initial, and how ST probably opens. I would absolutely audition all of the names I mentioned and go with the best options. KY point is a starting place and go from there. If one or more of the kids is ready, so much the better. But whether they are are aren't with the Twins when camp breaks, you have a well-staffed bullpen in Rochester to draw from, audition from, etc.

    But what good does a bullpen do for a bottom feeder team? Kenley Jansen would hardly ever pitch for this team as they never have the lead late in games, it seems like a major waste of resources.

    You have a point Nick, but I want my re-building team to improve, preferably with a continuation of young talent joining them. But one way for the team to improve is the bullpen, which blew WAY too many leads this year. And when my young, re-building team has a lead,mid like them to keep it. I want them to win together and experience success where they can. I would be greatly adverse to the Twins going out and buying a new bullpenumber. But I love a short term, bounce-back, near the end of his career 1-2 year guy to help set the pen up for success, (with the idea how could possibly be flipped or extended depending).

     

    To me, signing a closer would be akin to acquiring a veteran SS to compete with Escobar and help solidify the infield for a season or two while guys like Gordon advance and develop and prepare for 2018. The team, hopefully, performs better, wins more, the kids win together, and no-one is blocked long term.

    It would make no sense for a rebuilding team to go out an waste money on a free agent closer, unless for some reason they are competitive come July and they have issues in the closer position. (*)

     

    Re: experience.  It is a catch-22.  If you are not going to close, you will not get experience.  So it is time that the Twins allow the younger players who are coming to their primes, experience in the position:

     

    They should let, Chargois, Duffey, Burdi, Jones battle it out at Spring Training.

    Tonkin was never any good and he is not getting any better.  He is at the AAAA Casey Fien level.  Got to go.

     

    (*) The Twins are stuck with Hughes contract, and this is a biggr issue than Perkins'.  Depending on how he returns from surgery, I always thought that he would make a better closer than a starter, plus he has experience (with great results) setting up Rivera.  Only if they cannot trade him and/or are competing.

    Edited by Thrylos

     

    It would make no sense for a rebuilding team to go out an waste money on a free agent closer, unless for some reason they are competitive come July and they have issues in the closer position. (*)

     

     

    Acquiring a closer in mid-season is way more difficult and expensive, and leaves winnable games on the table that can make or break your season. Similar to what happened in 2015 when we went into the year with a shoddy bullpen, tried to patch it up mid-year, and missed a playoff spot by a few games as a result.

     

    I don't expect that to happen next year considering how abominable and unsalvageable our rotation is, but the scenario you described is a too-little too-late approach. It's not prohibitively expensive to get a one or two year deal on a bounce-back candidate free agent, and there's room in the bullpen to add a piece. Why not cover your bases and give yourself a chance? There will still be plenty of opportunities to break in young pitchers without over-relying on them to be ready. Then, if we have another 102-loss team on our hands you can hopefully trade that veteran for something if they managed to establish some value.

    I'd be curious to know if Holland, Storen, or Feliz would demand to be the closer in their FA negotiations. Or if they'd be open to pitching in any high leverage inning, whether that be the 6th, 7th, or 8th inning. 

    If they do turn out to pitch in the 9th and get the save, great! Like Mike and others on the thread, I'm believing more and more that etched in stone roles in the bullpen should be a thing of the past. Maybe the turning point in the game happens in the 7th inning. Maybe it's the 8th inning the next day. I'd like to have the best pitcher out there when the game is on the line, no matter the inning. 

    Hopefully Cleveland is proving that traditional bullpen roles are a thing of the past with how they're using Andrew Miller this postseason. 

     

    It would make no sense for a rebuilding team to go out an waste money on a free agent closer, unless for some reason they are competitive come July and they have issues in the closer position. (*)

     

    Re: experience.  It is a catch-22.  If you are not going to close, you will not get experience.  So it is time that the Twins allow the younger players who are coming to their primes, experience in the position:

     

    They should let, Chargois, Duffey, Burdi, Jones battle it out at Spring Training.

    Tonkin was never any good and he is not getting any better.  He is at the AAAA Casey Fien level.  Got to go.

     

    You can do both.  We have money to use and we need more talent.  Investing money and innings into a guy that wants to prove he can close is a low risk, high reward proposition.  You invest those innings and dollars, reap the rewards in July, and then give the last two months of the season to the young guy who has pitched the best so far in the season as the closer.  

     

    Good rebuilding teams look for ways to use open roles they have to create more value than they invest.

    "But this feels like skipping a step. Chargois still only has 25 major-league appearances. Throwing him into the fire so quickly could prove detrimental. Why not take it a bit slower and let him work his way up?"

     

    Because they could have done that ALL SEASON in 2016, but decided they preferred mediocrity over the unknown. 

    I am sure that wiull be the plan for 2017.  Use Chargois in a set up role and Kintzler as the closer.  Of course, what value using a 33 year old closer will have over the future is debatable and you really cannot tell how a guy is going to hadle the closer role until, well, you make him the closer.  Everything else is just simulation to a degree.

     

    One of the problems with the Twins is that they seem to pretend that some of these guys are 19 year olds.  JT CHargois will be 26 years old before the start of the 2017 season.  How much more "seasoning" does he need before he is going to contribute?  I realize that injuries have delayed his progression through the minors, but there comes a time thta a "prospect" needs to either sink or swim.  

    An argument for signing a free agent or 2 would be what  the Yankees did this past season.   Relief Pitching is always in high demand at the trade deadline.  The Yanks were able to trade Miller and Chapman for multiple prospects (granted those were 2 studs).  Say we signed Feliz and/or Holland this year and they built up some "save" value.    if we are out of the race come the end of July and we have built up some of our young relief pitchers - Feliz or Holland could be flipped for a good return - obviously less value than Miller and Chapman would get but still good.   They would serve as an insurance policy and buffer so the young guys can build up their confidence in less stressful pitching situations.    

    You can do both.  We have money to use and we need more talent.  Investing money and innings into a guy that wants to prove he can close is a low risk, high reward proposition.  You invest those innings and dollars, reap the rewards in July, and then give the last two months of the season to the young guy who has pitched the best so far in the season as the closer.  

     

    Good rebuilding teams look for ways to use open roles they have to create more value than they invest.

    EXACTLY what I'm saying. There is, to me, a difference between rebuilding a team...which they ARE doing and began with better earnest last season...and just tossing nothing but prospects in to each and every role with a sink or swim attitude. To me, if my young team has a chance to win a game, I want them to feel they can win the game. Let someone come in, be that closer, let someone else slide in to that role here and there, rotate all these prospects in and out, off and on the roster, if someone underperforms or gets hurt, and you probably have another trade chip mid season. And what happens if the guy they would sign is less than 30 and performs well? You could decide to keep him, potentially, and he could, potentially, still be a part of the next winning team.

     

    Best of all world's here.

     

    I'd be curious to know if Holland, Storen, or Feliz would demand to be the closer in their FA negotiations. Or if they'd be open to pitching in any high leverage inning, whether that be the 6th, 7th, or 8th inning. 

    If they do turn out to pitch in the 9th and get the save, great! Like Mike and others on the thread, I'm believing more and more that etched in stone roles in the bullpen should be a thing of the past. Maybe the turning point in the game happens in the 7th inning. Maybe it's the 8th inning the next day. I'd like to have the best pitcher out there when the game is on the line, no matter the inning. 

    Hopefully Cleveland is proving that traditional bullpen roles are a thing of the past with how they're using Andrew Miller this postseason. 

    The "Save" stat is about as useless the "Win" stat in my opinion.  Let say it's a tie game with runners on 2nd and 3rd with one out in the 7th or 8th inning.  You bring in a reliever who strikes out the first guy and then induces a lazy grounder on the next.  Now you're out of the jam.  If your team scores 3 runs in the 8th to take a 3 run lead, your "closer" gets to come in in the 9th inning and get save if he gives up less than 3 runs.  I think the 7th inning guy was more important in that scenario.

     

    But Saves are sexy to some I guess.

    How about not worrying about the 9th inning and focus on innings 1-7. Having a shut down closer like Chapman is a waste if you cannot get him the ball with the lead. I am aware the market is thin for starters this year but please set it up where the Twins could be better in 2-3 years.

     

    How about not worrying about the 9th inning and focus on innings 1-7. Having a shut down closer like Chapman is a waste if you cannot get him the ball with the lead. I am aware the market is thin for starters this year but please set it up where the Twins could be better in 2-3 years.

     

    i hope they do more than 1 thing to make the team better.....do you not think they can do more than 1 thing?

     

    How about not worrying about the 9th inning and focus on innings 1-7. Having a shut down closer like Chapman is a waste if you cannot get him the ball with the lead. I am aware the market is thin for starters this year but please set it up where the Twins could be better in 2-3 years.

    Obviously, building leads to protect is the foremost concern for this club, as acknowledged in the first sentence of the post. But that doesn't mean they should be "not worrying" about other blatant holes on the roster. 

    Use "bullpen by committee" strategy. That opens the door for competition between pitchers by providing opportunities for to display who can succeed in key situations. There is no need to rush a decision defining roles for pitchers who have yet to prove they are worthy of a permanent role on a major league team.

     

    True, his performance this year was essentially the same as what he did 2012-2014 with the Brewers. I guess the point is more that I don't trust someone as hittable as him in that kind of role, and don't think having him there is useful in terms of big-picture evaluations. I'm certainly fine with bringing him back as a middle relief guy. 

     

    I completely agree. I don't want to see him at the back end of the bullpen routinely getting called on in high leverage spots. As a $2 million dollar middle reliever that can (likely) provide a bunch of reliable innings, he'd be just fine, and cheap enough to jettison if/when a better option comes along.

    Twins' fans have forgotten how to aim high. Trained themselves. Convinced themselves. Yuk. And not the funny yuk.

     

    Why folks think May will excell anywhere baffles me. Tonkin too. Some seem to think we are forever trapped and can't escape them, so they keep talking themselves into hoping. The staff needs replaced! Not retreaded. I like Hughes to the pen, though. Always have - especially to start each and every season. Aim high, Mr Falvey.

    Good read. I think all these options are plausible. Regarding the FA's Feliz would be a great stop gap closer with some upside, I think JT is destined for the job but agree might be much to hand it too him out of spring training. Id also be fine with Tonkin, assuming he pitches well in Spring Training. He dominated AAA as a closer and think he was severely mismanaged being the "long relief" guy pitching 2-3 innings clearly burned him out towards the end of the season. Kitzler should not be the closer, he did an ok job filling in and I'm ok bringing him back as a middle reliever but he's a sinker baller who does not strike many people out, we're seeing in the post season elite relievers with strikeout abilities are critical to success.

     

    Good read. I think all these options are plausible. Regarding the FA's Feliz would be a great stop gap closer with some upside, I think JT is destined for the job but agree might be much to hand it too him out of spring training. Id also be fine with Tonkin, assuming he pitches well in Spring Training. He dominated AAA as a closer and think he was severely mismanaged being the "long relief" guy pitching 2-3 innings clearly burned him out towards the end of the season. Kitzler should not be the closer, he did an ok job filling in and I'm ok bringing him back as a middle reliever but he's a sinker baller who does not strike many people out, we're seeing in the post season elite relievers with strikeout abilities are critical to success.

     

    Welcome to the site. Nice first post.

    Good read. I think all these options are plausible. Regarding the FA's Feliz would be a great stop gap closer with some upside, I think JT is destined for the job but agree might be much to hand it too him out of spring training. Id also be fine with Tonkin, assuming he pitches well in Spring Training. He dominated AAA as a closer and think he was severely mismanaged being the "long relief" guy pitching 2-3 innings clearly burned him out towards the end of the season. Kitzler should not be the closer, he did an ok job filling in and I'm ok bringing him back as a middle reliever but he's a sinker baller who does not strike many people out, we're seeing in the post season elite relievers with strikeout abilities are critical to success.

    Welcome aboard!




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