Edouard Julien v. Brooks Lee: Whom Should the Twins Trade?

21 minutes ago, specialiststeve said:

Sorry, Old school guy here and fWAR or effen'War means very little to me or to the eye. Suarez hits for power and is a pretty good glove but everything else is crap... Polanco when healthy does everything fairly well. Hit, hit for power, good glove. So as I would tell Rocco... lose the Metrics and actually look at the game and how it is played. 

Old crotchety dude.. ;) 

They have the exact same career wRC+ of 111.  Their OBP is the same.  Polanco 20 pts higher average but Suarez far more HRs.  Even the old stand by stats suggest they are very equal offensively.  I know defensive metrics leaves some room for doubt, but Suarez is a fair amount above average and Polanco is slightly below average.  

3 hours ago, Cody Pirkl said:

It's all dependent on the market and many teams are on the same boat. 

Consider this though: The Twins last year traded Luis Arraez for Pablo Lopez and two prospects, extended Lopez for below market value, and then he was one of the best pitchers in baseball.

The market has nothing to do with the Twins deciding to cut payroll. No one forced them to do that.  The Dbacks are increasing payroll from last year and they have the same exact tv uncertainty we do.  Reducing payroll and getting worse was a choice that the Twins made.  

We also traded for Mahle and Lopez and those were disasters.  That's the thing, trades don't always work out.  Relying solely on trades to improve your roster is basically rolling the dice.   

4 hours ago, JD-TWINS said:

Not personal...

[SNIPPed like for brevity].

Seems to me that Twins have Julien - Farmer - Gordon - Castro - Martin all available to do some work at 2B going into Spring Training, 

I would be ok with that list.

$4M isn't going to break us, but I understand given it's the Twins a penny saved is $4M we may not spend elsewhere.

But back to the point of this article I think we are in agreement; it would be Polanco or Farmer and not Julien or Lee.

I am also OK, we stand pat with everyone, trading no one, unless it has the potential to be Pablo Lopez or higher and see what some of our younger pitchers have.

As things stand now, I said this in another post here in TD, the Twins win the division by 10 games, (assuming the injury bug is no bi-annual), and that's without relying on a fully healthy Buxton.

Mark my words. (been watching too much Outlander)
Bonnie Prince EGFTShaw

31 minutes ago, Woof Bronzer said:

The market has nothing to do with the Twins deciding to cut payroll. No one forced them to do that.  The Dbacks are increasing payroll from last year and they have the same exact tv uncertainty we do.  Reducing payroll and getting worse was a choice that the Twins made.  

We also traded for Mahle and Lopez and those were disasters.  That's the thing, trades don't always work out.  Relying solely on trades to improve your roster is basically rolling the dice.   

The Diamondbacks also started $37M below the twins 2023 payroll and that included $18M in dead money from Bumgardner.  They now project to spend $128M.   You are seeing only what you want to see.

I had a dilemma in choosing until you mentioned 1B for Julien. If they believe that's where he belongs then there is no redundancy, you need to retain both and look to another prospect to include. I would look to the next infielder prospect and possibly Wallner. The prospect has almost no shot of breaking the lineup. Wallner worries me because his profile is Joey Gallo. I hope I'm wrong.

Keep Julien, I followed him thru college, he is a gamer, let’s see if front office has the courage to see what he can do in his second year.

10 hours ago, mbuehrer68 said:

I would take the proven commodity every time. We know Julien can hit. We don't know what Lee will be at the major league level. Give me those oppo homers at the top of the order. I loved watching Julien hit last year. Let's not trade that away.

The league caught on to Julien the last 6 weeks. His K's skyrocketed. He showed he can't hit cutters in on his hands. He may be another Miranda. Plus his range at 2nd is horrible and with our loss of pitching defense will be key. Trade ASAP while he has value!!

10 hours ago, Karbo said:

IMO everyone pretty much should be available if the price is right. With that being said, I don't see either one of these getting traded this off season. If I was the GM I would look at a package of someone like Martin and AK for a top of the rotation starter. Both can be replaced, and could offer a team some young controllable talent. 

Yes, everyone should be available if you’re the Twins. To get a top of the rotation starter you’re gonna have to add more than a super utility player with upside and a injury prone first baseman.

33 minutes ago, Paul D said:

I had a dilemma in choosing until you mentioned 1B for Julien. If they believe that's where he belongs then there is no redundancy, you need to retain both and look to another prospect to include. I would look to the next infielder prospect and possibly Wallner. The prospect has almost no shot of breaking the lineup. Wallner worries me because his profile is Joey Gallo. I hope I'm wrong.

Agreed on Wallner. When he’s hitting he’s very solid. When he’s a step behind (like the last couple weeks of the season and the playoffs) he resembles Gallo to a tee.

3 hours ago, Cody Pirkl said:

Personally I don't see a scenario where Lewis is traded, and I think he's a tier up from Julien and Lee in terms of how the organization views them. Even for a front office that's willing to trade anyone whether they're a fan favorite, home grown talent, etc., I think there's an attachment there that will make it difficult. He was the first draft pick they ever made after taking over the job, and after a winding road to the MLB which led to him basically carrying the team to their first playoff win in almost 20 years last season, I just can't see it. I'm sure there's a price, but I don't see anyone meeting it.

I think Lewis is too athletic to move him down the defensive spectrum to 1B. I think it's likelier that they'd move him to 2B if they're that intent on Lee playing 3B, but I suspect they won't mess with a good thing. Also of note, Lee's offense will probably profile better at 2B. 

Ok. Thank you.

1 hour ago, Cory Engelhardt said:

Lewis is healthy and comfortable at 3b. I want him to be up and in the majors all year. No reason to move him.

I don’t love Julien’s defense. Frankly I’d throw him out in left or at 1b or even keep him at dh to make room for Lee. 
 

I like Montgomery. I LOVE Luzardo. 

I’ve often wondered this as well. Frankly I don’t trust his glove at first. I see a lot of short hops into the dugout or camera well with him at first. LF seems like a natural fit. Hell, Sano was put in right! Why can’t Julien play LF and practice at one position to hopefully become average there?

SI has a great article based on a Falvey interview. He is getting plenty of trade calls but nothing of value yet. He hopes things pick up late January but it sounded like  other FO don’t value any of our guys high enough to get a deal done with any player. Hurry up and wait, winter is getting longer and colder. 

Why a clickbait type topic. This is like should eat broken glass (Julien) or eat a nice burger (Lee).

Julien should be traded if you can get a great return. If you compare Julien to Arraez the main difference is Arraez is a better hitter. Julien has more power and they both are defensive liabilities. Hiding a guy at first isn't the answer.

Brooks Lee is a very young prospect that made it to St Paul fairly quick. The main issue may be finding him playing time if the Twins can't make any trades. 

3 hours ago, Parfigliano said:

Sano stunk in RF.  Hopefully Julien is much much better if put in LF.

Where is the logic of taking someone who's average or below average at one position, 2nd base in Juliens case and think he'll be better in the outfield. Explain please. Or is this just wishful thinking?

3 hours ago, TNtwins85 said:

I’ve often wondered this as well. Frankly I don’t trust his glove at first. I see a lot of short hops into the dugout or camera well with him at first. LF seems like a natural fit. Hell, Sano was put in right! Why can’t Julien play LF and practice at one position to hopefully become average there?

5 hours ago, Major League Ready said:

The Diamondbacks also started $37M below the twins 2023 payroll and that included $18M in dead money from Bumgardner.  They now project to spend $128M.   You are seeing only what you want to see.

Huh?  

https://frontofficesports.com/diamondbacks-plan-record-payroll-despite-unsettled-revenue-outlook/#:~:text=The defending National League champions,other smaller-market MLB franchises.

7 hours ago, Schmoeman5 said:

Where is the logic of taking someone who's average or below average at one position, 2nd base in Juliens case and think he'll be better in the outfield. Explain please. Or is this just wishful thinking?

 

 

As Julien developed last year at 24 yo, didnt he finish the year with above average defense that made his full year average? He made huge improvement but no one talks about that. 
as for Lee, he isn’t much younger than Julien and he tore through the Minor leagues. At each level, he started what some people say was slow but he progressed so quick that he kept getting promoted so how anyone puts a ceiling on him at 22 yo is beyond me. His AAA time was the smallest sample size and yet Lee blew up to elite levels in the final 16 games when most guys wear down from the longest season in their career.  I understand that if Miami wanted to do straight up Luzardo for Lee, its a no brainer but that isn’t realistic! 3 years from now, Lee could be an allstar and Miami could have Luzardo on the table getting his UCL fixed. 
Todays reality is, Lee is our shiney new tool. If he is the best in our tool box, play him and figure out where. 
We are so lucky to be able to debate things like this instead of, can we find the next Castro hidden talent because we don’t want to watch AAAA guys shuffle in and out all year while we go a putrid 70-92. 

7 hours ago, Woof Bronzer said:

Huh?  

https://frontofficesports.com/diamondbacks-plan-record-payroll-despite-unsettled-revenue-outlook/#:~:text=The defending National League champions,other smaller-market MLB franchises.

I can understand that you read something you thought was meaningful.  However, If you check a source that provides all the details you won't find yourself responding with "huh".    

Diamondbacks 2024 Payroll

13 hours ago, TNtwins85 said:

I’ve often wondered this as well. Frankly I don’t trust his glove at first. I see a lot of short hops into the dugout or camera well with him at first. LF seems like a natural fit. Hell, Sano was put in right! Why can’t Julien play LF and practice at one position to hopefully become average there?

He already is average at one position (2B) but a lot of people apparently are unwilling to acknowledge that he has improved.  We all hoped he could become average at a position.  The young man worked hard and accomplished what we hoped for.  Now, some people want to ignore what happened and move off the position where he has become competent.     

Statcast - Edouard Julien

Brooks Lee has a big part of the Twins' imminent future in every aspect of the game, IMO a good All-Star  Candidate who can play all 3 INF positions efficiently and is a switch-hitter. Eddie Julien has a good eye, especially against RHPs is stretched at 2B (which is not a good tell). So I'd choose Julien over Lee to be traded hands down.

But the Twins need to look further down the road because we a have great core of players that have emerged onto the spotlight with others on their heels that can take us to the big dance. For that to happen we need quality depth at CF, SS & catcher.

STL made it to the big dance many times merely on great catching with pitching & defense. Our lowly neighbors KC went to the big dance in 2014 & '15. Losing in '14 but winning it in '15 on the same recipe. My point is that we need to stop ignoring the catcher. I like Jeffers, he's hard-working, he's an average starter overall. Do we want an average CF or SS to start in the WS? NO, -So why are we content with Jeffers? We need a bigger upgrade at catcher. There are a lot of young MLB-ready catchers with high potential to accompany our young core. With good to great arms, athletic, 2-way, some LH or SH ready to be mentored by Vazquez. All these opportunities lining up plus Jeffers is at a high point in his trade value ever is too good to pass up. But if we punt on this one the opportunity will be gone.

So who would I trade for Front line pitching? Jeffers would be my choice.

11 hours ago, Schmoeman5 said:

Where is the logic of taking someone who's average or below average at one position, 2nd base in Juliens case and think he'll be better in the outfield. Explain please. Or is this just wishful thinking?

 

 

Just my opinion but why do you have to trade one or the other. Why would you just not move the guy who hits great to another position where you are weak in my opinion which would be left field. He’s played there before and he can work at that position which has played before. That allows you to put the higher defensive value player in Lee there. Julien is a better hitter than Wallner. Lee is a better hitter than Wallner and a superior defensive player to Julien and Wallner. If you’re willing to trade a player it should be Wallner is what we’ve come to here. That puts him and Polanco on the block which creates a decent package while still keeping the two best hitters in this scenario. That’s my thinking.

2 hours ago, Major League Ready said:

He already is average at one position (2B) but a lot of people apparently are unwilling to acknowledge that he has improved.  We all hoped he could become average at a position.  The young man worked hard and accomplished what we hoped for.  Now, some people want to ignore what happened and move off the position where he has become competent.     

Statcast - Edouard Julien

Understandable. He did improve. But in this scenario why trade one or the other? I think Wallner should be in the conversation. Lee is already better at 2B as it stands. Move Julien to LF. Lee takes 2B. Polanco and Wallner get packaged. I’d rather have Julian’s bat in the lineup playing LF than Wallner. I’d rather have Lee’s bat in the lineup playing 2B over Julien and Polanco. I’d rather have both of them over Wallner and Polanco. Therefore you keep them both. This is the best lineup and defense. The article is about Julien and Lee when really we should be talking about Wallner and Polanco. Maybe it doesn’t get you a top of the rotation starter but I’d rather have Julien and Lee playing everyday than a number 2-3 starter and only one of the two.