Article: Twins Sign Catcher Kurt Suzuki

[nicksaviking]

Framing doesn't like Suzuki, but I've certainly never seen anything in his games that suggests he's poor at it, but I also don't trust metrics on framing much at this time based on eye test vs. stats so far, similar to when zone rating and such first came out.

 

I don't like pitch framing stats either because it doesn't take into account the natural predjudices of umpires, and I don't mean that in a derogatory way. If umpires already have a preconcieved notion that a young/inexperienced/wild pitcher is going to be all over the place, I don't think pitch framing helps a whole lot as the umpire is already expecting pitches to be outside the zone.

 

I honestly haven't thought much about Suzuki's defensive game, but considering the above theory, the A's have run out Bartolo Colon and a bunch of young pups the last two years. Youngsters don't generally get the benefit of the doubt from an umpire and I'm not sure pitch framing would have a huge effect in convincing an umpire otherwise.

 

Greg Maddox got every borderline call but I think that had more to do with his reputation than it did his personal catcher du jour's framing skills.

[jokin]

Bonus in signing Suzuki: He has proven to be very tradable over the last two years. Not that the Twins should do so, but it's nice to have that option.

 

Excellent Nick! That was exactly my first thought. Given Terry's excellent recent track record in moving catchers, once Pinto gets settled in in a few months, as we all anticipate, with the capable backup potential of Hermann, Suzuki could net either a major league ready type prospect (or if he calls the Dodgers, something low minors/high-ceiling type, ala Sulbaran).

[jokin]

Not really. He was traded from OAK-WAS, then back from WAS-OAK. And those two teams have been trading with each other like gangbusters in recent years. They were also both August waiver trade salary dumps for what looks like minor league filler.

 

I disagree with your conclusion. What with the catcher concusssion contagion in recent years, there's more than a fighting chance that a contender is going to pay up for reliable catching depth when one of their own goes down.

[Marta Shearing]

Ok, but Suzuki is from Hawaii. Not sure he will be much good at recruiting.

But he has a japanese name!

[Thrylos]

"I still think we need another outfielder."

 

Why? Willihammer, hicks, parmelee, arcia, pressly, and most likely ploufe will be all given time in the field. I agree there not the greatest, But I think TR is content for the time being with some good prospects coming up in 2015.

 

That's one good OF (Hicks), 2 works in progress (Arcia, Plouffe), 2 DHs (Willingham, Parmelee) and a Pitcher (Pressly) you got listed up there... Presley is a bench OF not a starting guy

[DJL44]

Wow. Terry Ryan's done with all of his shopping before Christmas and they're right around last year's budget. Usually he's waiting for the post-Christmas sales.

[Kwak]

I still think we need another outfielder.[/quote

 

Why? Willihammer, hicks, parmelee, arcia, pressly, and most likely ploufe will be all given time in the field. I agree there not the greatest, But I think TR is content for the time being with some good prospects coming up in 2015.

 

When a poster says "...we need another OF." He means a good OF--not the warm bodies that the Twins have been running out there the past few years.

 

Parmelee is an OF. He took training to become a 1B because of Morneau's concussion issue.

[Brock Beauchamp]

When a poster says "...we need another OF." He means a good OF--not the warm bodies that the Twins have been running out there the past few years.

 

Parmelee is an OF. He took training to become a 1B because of Morneau's concussion issue.

 

Chris Parmelee has spent his entire professional career splitting time between OF and 1B. Initially, he only played a few games at first but by 2008, he was splitting time almost evenly between RF/1B.

[Thrylos]

Parmelee is an OF. He took training to become a 1B because of Morneau's concussion issue.

 

Chris Parmelee has spent his entire professional career splitting time between OF and 1B. Initially, he only played a few games at first but by 2008, he was splitting time almost evenly between RF/1B.

 

Here is Parmelee's maxpreps page before he was drafted in HS. His High School positions are stated clearly (along with some really cool baby Parms pictures.) He was drafted as a first baseman (not as a LHP obviously) who got reps in the OF so he has versatility. The Twins thought of converting him to RF in his second season (in Beloit) because of his arm (he was a pitcher) and because of Morneau. However most of his pro career in the minors from 2008 on (ie. after that failed experiment in Beloit in 2007) has been at 1B (393 games at 1B vs 155 at OF, almost 3 to 1), because he was an awful OF early on.

 

And the above is a fact

 

Here is his senior season HS baseball roster that clearly indicates his positions as well...

[Brock Beauchamp]

Here is Parmelee's maxpreps page before he was drafted in HS. His High School positions are stated clearly (along with some really cool baby Parms pictures.) He was drafted as a first baseman (not as a LHP obviously) who got reps in the OF so he has versatility. The Twins thought of converting him to RF in his second season (in Beloit) because of his arm (he was a pitcher) and because of Morneau. However most of his pro career in the minors from 2008 on (ie. after that failed experiment in Beloit in 2007) has been at 1B (393 games at 1B vs 155 at OF, almost 3 to 1), because he was an awful OF early on.

 

And the above is a fact

 

Here is his senior season HS baseball roster that clearly indicates his positions as well...

 

Interesting. I always thought of Parmelee as a first baseman but never thought about what position his played in prep ball. All I know is that he played some RF early in his career and then split time.

[Thrylos]

Interesting. I always thought of Parmelee as a first baseman but never thought about what position his played in prep ball. All I know is that he played some RF early in his career and then split time.

 

They tried to convert him but he was god-awful in Beloit. Like falling on his rear end, having balls hit over his head etc awful. Making Delmon look like Willie Mays. It was not a pretty sight.

 

I think that the Twins had the intention of penciling him at the OF because of Morneau (and Winfree, remember him?)

 

He has improved, don't get me wrong. I think that he is better than Willingham or Doumit, but that does not say much... His range is miniscule.

[twinsfaninsaudi]

" The signing addresses the last obvious need on the roster,...."

 

So we lose Morneau and Doumit (I nearly forgot Clete), sign Kubel and Suzuki to fill that void.

 

Do these moves really do much to improve our bad offense from last year?

 

Is not obvious at this point that the Twins need offensive improvement to come from within? That is the strength of their farm system. They need Arcia to take a step forward and full healthy seasons from Willingham and Mauer with less demanding defensive positions (1b and DH). It's not realistic to expect them to add high-end talent to the MLB roster from the market. It needs to come in the names of Sano, Buxton, Sanatana, Rosario, and Hicks.

[jorgenswest]

There were three viable veteran catchers left for the Twins to consider.

 

Doumit

Buck

Suzuki

 

Though all are below average defenders, Suzuki is significantly better. I am glad they chose the glove over the bat at this key defensive position. Suzuki also has more experience playing for winning teams. Not sure how much it matters, but it can't hurt.

[JP3700]

You're probably right about Fryer, but his 2012 AAA is kind of a crazy outlier. .504 OPS? His other two AAA seasons (admittedly small samples, all) are .647 and .704, which are both better than Suzuki's .615 overall for the last two seasons. Gotta wonder if there was an injury at work in 2012 -- I get that Fryer was an older non-prospect, but every other season he's been good for at least a few walks, a few HR, and some steals. 2012, nothing.

 

 

I had just adopted Fryer as my new favorite Twin, so I should probably recuse myself from this discussion...

 

In 2011 Fryer crushed AA then got moved to AAA. He was hitting .262/.377/.446 at AAA before he got called up. He spent six weeks on the major league roster to only get 29 PA. When he was sent back down he hit .132/.281/.151. Which is why his OPS dropped.

 

In 2012 he was battling a shoulder injury. Part of the reason on why it was such an outlier to the rest of his career.

 

His overall 2013 numbers are in line with his career numbers. 14.4% walk rate with a .150 ISO. When he became the full time catcher in August, he finished the season hitting .254/.338/.474 slash line for an .813 OPS to help push the Red Wings into the playoffs. That's why he received a September call up.

 

He's a good defensive catcher, draws walks, has some pop and runs the bases well. I'm in the Eric Fryer fan club with you

[Thrylos]

He's a good defensive catcher, draws walks, has some pop and runs the bases well. I'm in the Eric Fryer fan club with you

 

I was really impressed by the way Fryer runs the bases. I saw him stretch a double into a triple vs the IronPigs in Gibson's near no hitter earlier this season. Really impressed with that part of his game. But for some reason he really does not look like a catcher to me. Same way that Rohlfing does not look like a catcher to me. On the other hand, Herrmann and Pinto and Koch do. Hard to put my finger on what it is, but it is there.

[Monkeypaws]

So doesn't Suzuki return us to the point we might as well have kept Butera?

 

When did Butera ever hit 15 HRs in a season, or as high as .279, or drive in 88 runs?

 

I know, it was a few years ago, but Suzuki has produced as a major leaguer. Butera hasn't even crossed the Mendoza line as a major leaguer.

[stringer bell]

Thank you Monkeypaws for putting Suzuki's offense in perspective. Here is the thing about defense, especially catcher defense--I just don't think many measures are both fair and accurate. I expect that Suzuki is an average defensive catcher and that some of his strengths behind the dish can't be measured such as working with pitchers. I hope the division of labor is about 2.5/1 Pinto, but it would not surprise me if Suzuki gets more work. As a matter of fact, I wouldn't be stunned if Pinto started 2014 in Rochester or on the disabled list. Suzuki is OK as a fill-in and I think he'll be better as a backup.

[DocBauer]

A Veteran Backstop who will be able to help with the game planning. His Value will go beyond his batting stats and caught stealing%. The Catcher plays a major role in weather a pitcher is successful or not.

 

After Doumit was traded... I was pretty sure this was going to happen.

 

I think it's a bit much to just hand the job over to Pinto without a little insurance. We did that with Hicks in 2013. In hindsight... Insurance would have helped in the case of Hicks.

 

Also... In consideration of what Parmelee did a couple of Septembers ago and what he has done since that impressive September. Simply saying Pinto "here you go" after an impressive September is a little risky.

 

I have a feeling that Suzuki will start as the primary catcher come April.

 

Agree almost completely. Not sure I agree with him starting, but the rest is right on.

[Trevor0333]

With all the attention pitch framing is getting, its only a matter of time before umpires know of the good catchers who are sneaking balls by them as strikes. Umpires are judged job perfomance wise on their strike/ball calling using pitch/fx.

 

Also pitch framing ability is only a few years away from being an obsolete talent, with the way technology is moving it will be tracked/called electronically before we know it.

[Trevor0333]

The other positive in signing Suzuki is this allows Hermann to spend another year at AAA to hone his catching skills. I'd like to see him get full time work there, I think he could be a real quality backup to Pinto but he needs more time catching.

 

Quality signing albeit a bit more than I thought he would get.

[DocBauer]

I was really impressed by the way Fryer runs the bases. I saw him stretch a double into a triple vs the IronPigs in Gibson's near no hitter earlier this season. Really impressed with that part of his game. But for some reason he really does not look like a catcher to me. Same way that Rohlfing does not look like a catcher to me. On the other hand, Herrmann and Pinto and Koch do. Hard to put my finger on what it is, but it is there.

 

Perhaps Fryer will re-discover some of his earlier milb hitting ability and surprise. I hope he does. I'm a big believer in Hermann's future as a backup C and roll player with a decent bat and eye.

 

And I'm right there with you on Koch. I just have a good feeling about him.

[stringer bell]

Personally, I don't think Herrmann looks like the typical catcher. He looks like an outfielder when he's out there and he runs pretty well. However, I think the primary reason why Chris Herrmann has already seen the majors, and why he has a chance to make the club out of spring training is his versatility. If he were a catcher only, I don't think he would be nearly as intriguing. I don't see anything that indicates that Herrmann will be anything close to a league-average hitter.

[johnnydakota]

Good move by TR.

I'd be content if we are done shopping, but hope for a trade for a SS or SP and sign a bat.

 

So adding .05 WAR is what you concider a good off season?

wow you dont set the bar very high,but compared to last season it is a stark improvement

[johnnydakota]

The other positive in signing Suzuki is this allows Hermann to spend another year at AAA to hone his catching skills. I'd like to see him get full time work there, I think he could be a real quality backup to Pinto but he needs more time catching.

 

Quality signing albeit a bit more than I thought he would get.

 

So with Herrmann already spending 5 years in the minors, you think he needs more seasoning,Isint he like 26 years old already?

[jorgenswest]

So adding .05 WAR is what you concider a good off season?

wow you dont set the bar very high,but compared to last season it is a stark improvement

 

 

How is the 0.5 computed? Projection based? 2013 numbers?

 

 

Single season WAR is much better for describing what happened than what will happen. It should not be used as an evaluation tool for projecting the future.

[JP3700]

I was really impressed by the way Fryer runs the bases. I saw him stretch a double into a triple vs the IronPigs in Gibson's near no hitter earlier this season. Really impressed with that part of his game.

 

Yes, he has a tight body. I see that from his tight pants. He is..

 

[Trevor0333]

So adding .05 WAR is what you concider a good off season?

wow you dont set the bar very high,but compared to last season it is a stark improvement

 

Given the options available on the offensive side I would be content also. Im not saying they shouldnt make any more improvements. I would go 4/60 on Garza and trade Corriea but I don't like any of the remaining bats available at positions of need for the price.

[Trevor0333]

So with Herrmann already spending 5 years in the minors, you think he needs more seasoning,Isint he like 26 years old already?

 

He did just turn 26 a month ago & is a converted OF. Only 281 games of the last 4 seasons in the minors he was catching. I would prefer he was at AAA catching everyday for 1 more season rather than sitting on the bench & only catching 50 games in the majors.

[kab21]

I would prefer to have Hermann and Fryer as depth (plan C and D) rather than plan B in case a rookie struggles. I could care less if Herrmann goes to AAA for an entire year (or forever).

[cmathewson]

FWIW, I don't expect improvements on the offensive side. Catching is such a grueling position, and he has caught so many innings, his hitting will continue to decline. Perhaps if he catches less than half the time, his hands will be fresher. Otherwise, he's just OK offensively.

 

Defensively, he doesn't score well on the limited metrics available. But that is not why they brought him in. They brought him in to help Pinto work with pitchers. On that score, he is one of the best catchers around. I have often heard people like Bert say "he handles a pitching staff well." I wondered how to quantify that. The best measure I have been able to come up with is team ERA. This is a stat that requires many years of varying staffs to be reliable. Fortunately, in Suzuki, we have that. Oakland continually restructures its rotation. Despite that, they are consistently near the top in team ERA. I think this is good evidence that he handles a pitching staff well, which is the biggest hole in Pinto's game.