If Mauer is done catching does he make the HOF?

[Pius Jefferson]

Also how are voters are going to judge a player who might split his career at two very different positions?

 

First ten seasons primarily behind the plate.

 

.323/.405/.463/ .873

135+ OPS

MVP

3 Batting Titles

3 Gold Gloves

6 All-Star Appearances

 

The next eight to ten years may not look that different.The difference is those are great numbers for a catcher and good numbers for a 1st basemen.

[ThePuck]

Also how are voters are going to judge a player who might split his career at two very different positions?

 

First ten seasons primarily behind the plate.

 

.323/.405/.463/ .873

135+ OPS

MVP

3 Batting Titles

3 Gold Gloves

6 All-Star Appearances

 

The next eight to ten years may not look that different.The difference is those are great numbers for a catcher and good numbers for a 1st basemen.

 

What he's done while being primarily a catcher can't be taken away from him....and Carew's HOF chances weren't hurt by him moving to 1B. I get that Carew got the magic 3K hits, but is there much doubt he gets in anyway?

 

I see both sides of the argument. I agree with some points on both sides.

[LaBombo]

The BBref JAWS scoreboard shows Mauer trailing the defensively challenged Piazza, followed closely by Torre and Simmons, and just a tick behind Munson. The only other catcher not in the HOF who scores higher than Mauer is IRod, who will go in on the first ballot.

 

As a purely academic exercise, Mauer would greatly increase his HOF stock by putting together two more seasons behind the plate like 2012/13. That would put his JAWS score above the average of the current HOF catchers, and a career WAR total in the top 10 catchers in the history of the game.

 

If he does that, he probably goes in. If not, it's hard to say. He probably won't help his case much by hanging around at first base for several more years. He's never going to get 3000 hits, and his other counting stats pale in comparison to most of the catchers in the HOF.

 

In the baseball climate of 1983 or maybe even 1993, any conversation about Mauer and the HOF would probably start and end with 'he might have had a chance if he didn't walk so much'.

 

But if Mauer just plays out his existing contract, he won't even be eligible for the HOF until 2023. HOF voting has already evolved a great deal in the past decade, as the Wins and RBI's dinosaurs continue to make up a smaller portion of the voters with each passing year. That trend alone may be enough to get Mauer inducted without catching again unless he completely flames out.

[Monkeypaws]

First AL catcher to win a batting title, and he gets 3, most ever for a catcher in either league. That alone, along with what will likely be a lifetime BA near .320, and gold gloves, MVP, makes him a definite HOF'er.

 

Seriously, the AL was born in 1901 - think of how many catchers failed to win a batting title in over 100 years. Mauer did it 3 times. Greatest hitting catcher in AL history gets the nod from me.

[darin617]

Nope...

[Monkeypaws]

Nope...

 

Why not?

 

And don't say "because."

[Alex]

18th in WAR all-time by Fangraphs in 1178 Games. No one ranked above him with fewer. Buck Ewing is the only player close with 48.1 WAR in 1315 games.

 

Add to that he did something three times no catcher before him had done and it's not even a question, imo.

[Rick Niedermann]

Mauer is a Lock First Ballot HOFer. A catcher with Batting Championships, Division Titles, Gold Gloves. He is a HOFer if he retired tomorrow. No Doubt About It.

[iastfan112]

Mauer is a Lock First Ballot HOFer. A catcher with Batting Championships, Division Titles, Gold Gloves. He is a HOFer if he retired tomorrow. No Doubt About It.

 

Retire tomorrow and he's borderline. 2 more years behind the plate or 3-4 years at 1B and he should be a lock though.

[DaveW]

Assuming he doesn't fall off a cliff he is a lock.

[Pius Jefferson]

Assuming he doesn't fall off a cliff he is a lock.

 

I think that's what's going to happen. He'll keep being one of the best hitters long enough and a combination of peak and career gets him in.

 

I'm guessing that his extra base numbers improve. More home runs hit and more doubles. The legs are fresher for late season games and naturally more games played means more hits.

[cmb0252]

Yes. He has 5 more years on his contract which he sure as heck isn't walking away from so outside of a career ending injury I see no way he won't get the needed accolades to get in.

[Zephrin]

I think he's a lock. For a while there I could see him finishing his career in the Piazza/Rodriguez range, with an outside shot at being mentioned with Berra/Bench. The durability issues make that a whole lot less likely, though I still think he is a fringe top 10 catcher all time.

[Shane Wahl]

He is obviously a lock.

[Thrylos]

Give it another 5-6 years and then we can talk about it...

 

Too darn early. Catcher or no catcher.

 

If he does not play another game, he is not a Hall of Famer right now. If he keeps it up for another 5-6 years, I think that he may be close.

 

Point of reference: Mauer has a career 44ish WAR. Piazza has 59ish. And Piazza was not a first ballot HOFer. Fisk's is 68.3, Bench's 75.2, Carter's 69.8 (Berra's btw is a 59.3)

 

Pudge's WAR is 68.3 also, and I think that he will make it...

 

So Mauer needs a good 25WAR, which means 5 5-WAR seasons. This season he has a 5.1 WAR, his MVP year was 7.8. So he has his work cut of for him to be included in the discussion with those 4...

 

Just being objective here, but it is too early to tell...

[Larsbars08]

Piazza wasn't a first ballot hall of famer because he was mostly awful behind the plate, and PED innuendo.

 

Mauer probably gets in after a few years on the ballot if he retired today. If he puts up 2-3 more years like his last two, he's a first or second ballot hall of famer. From 2006-2010, he was without question, the best catcher in baseball. How many guys can say they were the best at their position for several years? They're pretty much all hall of famers, unless they had very short careers. Minus his lost year in 2011, he's been a top 3 catcher in all of baseball since 2010. Buster Posey and Yadier Molina are great, but let's revisit the argument when they do what Mauer has done consistently over 10 years. Call me optimistic, but I say that by the time he finishes his career, he's easily top 10 catcher historically, with a good chance to be a top-5 catcher.

[iastfan112]

Piazza would have made it first ballot if he, like a ton of players from the era, didn't have steroid allegations plaguing him.

Looking through historical catchers, how the heck did Torre not make the HoF as a player?

[diehardtwinsfan]

If his career were to end today, people would be debating it pretty seriously. Catcher with 3 batting titles, an MVP, multiple all star appearnces, and gold gloves... yeah, they'd be discussing it, and I wouldn't be surprised if he got in. A couple more years producing at current levels? 1st ballot.

[stringer bell]

Piazza would have made it first ballot if he, like a ton of players from the era, didn't have steroid allegations plaguing him.

Looking through historical catchers, how the heck did Torre not make the HoF as a player?

IIRC, Torre was a poor defensive catcher and he switched positions pretty early in his career. I just checked Baseball Reference--he was mostly a catcher for the Braves until age 28, but after that played first and third. with one exception (his age 30 year) where he played catcher for 90 games and third for 73. Torre caught just over 900 games out of 2200 as a major leaguer. Mauer has caught 400 more innings now than Torre did in his entire career.

[DaveW]

Give it another 5-6 years and then we can talk about it...

 

Too darn early. Catcher or no catcher.

 

If he does not play another game, he is not a Hall of Famer right now. If he keeps it up for another 5-6 years, I think that he may be close.

 

Point of reference: Mauer has a career 44ish WAR. Piazza has 59ish. And Piazza was not a first ballot HOFer. Fisk's is 68.3, Bench's 75.2, Carter's 69.8 (Berra's btw is a 59.3)

 

Pudge's WAR is 68.3 also, and I think that he will make it...

 

So Mauer needs a good 25WAR, which means 5 5-WAR seasons. This season he has a 5.1 WAR, his MVP year was 7.8. So he has his work cut of for him to be included in the discussion with those 4...

 

Just being objective here, but it is too early to tell...

 

WAR is a terrible statistic to use on its own.

 

Also your piazza example is obviously flawed.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I think he makes it in if he never plays another game. The old school will love the batting titles and gold gloves from the catcher position. The new school will love the fact that he was a catcher who got on base 40% of the time.

 

And it's downright criminal that Piazza wasn't a shoe-in on his first ballot.

[Shane Wahl]

The HOF is a joke now anyway, but seriously . . . WAR is not much of a consideration for it right now and . . . wait . . . we're still debating this?

[Shane Wahl]

I think he makes it in if he never plays another game. The old school will love the batting titles and gold gloves from the catcher position. The new school will love the fact that he was a catcher who got on base 40% of the time.

 

And it's downright criminal that Piazza wasn't a shoe-in on his first ballot.

 

This. Exactly. Mauer is covered by both ends of the spectrum.

[Steven Buhr]

Frankly, if Mauer's career ended today (say, for example, due to a Koskie-like career ending concussion), it quite possibly would help his chances of being a first-ballot HOFer. Puckett proved voters will look beyond a shortage of counting-type stats for a player viewed as exceptional in some way whose career is cut short.

[Alex]

I think he makes it in if he never plays another game. The old school will love the batting titles and gold gloves from the catcher position. The new school will love the fact that he was a catcher who got on base 40% of the time.

 

 

Agreed, but there is the "Needs more Homers and RBIs" crowd, but maybe that's only local.

[2wins87]

Also how are voters are going to judge a player who might split his career at two very different positions?

 

Torre is a pretty good example of this case (903 G@C, another 1100 mostly at 1B and 3B). He got 22% of the vote in his final year on the ballot, and didn't crack 15% before that.

 

Mauer just passed Torre, and has played 920 G@C so far. If he never played another game at catcher, I could see him ending up with very similar WAR and JAWS, probably a bit higher.

 

Torre was arguably slighted by the voters somewhat; he is in the Hall of Stats. But moving away from catcher definitely seems to have hurt his case.

 

Right now, I think Mauer is still a borderline case. The traditional voters will definitely like his batting titles and MVP, though 6 ASGs is quite low for any position and his counting stats, especially HR, are well below average. The statistically inclined voters will see his value, though I'm not sure he's accumulated enough career value yet.

 

If he plays another 2-3 years mostly at catcher I think he'll be a lock. Or if he plays another 5-6 mostly not at catcher, he'll probably still be a lock. Either way, as a squeaky clean guy who's never had any controversy whatsoever with the media, I think he'll outperform many contemporaries with comparable advanced stats in the vote.

[ThePuck]

There are too many big times things Mauer has accomplished while primarily being a catcher...and that only he has accomplished...to say he isn't worthy of the HOF.

[Steven Buhr]

Agreed, but there is the "Needs more Homers and RBIs" crowd, but maybe that's only local.

 

I think that nonsense is almost entirely "local." Every fanbase has a certain number of people who simply get off on being contrary and they'll chip away at the best player(s) on the local team just to get attention and try to impress people with how "smart" they are. Those with knowledge of the game, even BBWAA members, know better.

[Thrylos]

Those with knowledge of the game, even BBWAA members, know better.

 

Are we talking about the same BBWAA who on one hand deny Bagwell entry on suspicion of PED use while on the other do not take Braun's MVP trophy away after proven PED use?

[ThePuck]

Are we talking about the same BBWAA who on one hand deny Bagwell entry on suspicion of PED use while on the other do not take Braun's MVP trophy away after proven PED use?

 

First, Bagwell has only been up for HOF three times, he's gained votes every time. It's not over for him yet...he almost got 60% this year. Second, it would be up to MLB baseball to take away the MVP.