Article: Twins Trade Justin Morneau To Pirates

[ThePuck]

Because we were not going to keep him anyway; and if we did make the investment, it's unlikely that he'd be the player we need (at that cost) from ages 33/34 and up.

 

and trading a player with a month left helps us in the long run? Where's the benefit in the long run.

[pierre75275]

There are only two ways this works well for the twins. One they resign Morneau in the offseason or the PTBNL is a stud

[ThePuck]

Agreed - half the "prospects" on this team are pushing the wrong side of 30, Colabello included.

 

It's a small small consolation, but without Morneau the Twins (you'd think) will now move Mauer to 1B semi-permanently and develop Pinto and Herrmann behind the plate. No reason for those two NOT to catch pretty much every game the rest of the way.

 

Pinto and Hermann catching pretty much the rest of the way could have happened anyway...regardless. Mauer and Morny could have done the DH/1B thing.

[ThePuck]

How many times has a player been traded during the season and then gone back to the team that traded him after that season ended? I keep seeing this point brought up. How many times has it happened? Anyone know?

[Benchwarmerjim]

How many times has a player been traded during the season and then gone back to the team that traded him after that season ended? I keep seeing this point brought up. How many times has it happened? Anyone know?

 

Rick Aguilera traded to Boston in July 1995, signed with the Twins in offseason

[ThePuck]

Rick Aguilera traded to Boston in July 1995, signed with the Twins in offseason

 

Cool...good info...thanks for that...so that's one...18 years ago.

[Teflon]

the online equivalent of my favorite common man overplayed soundbyte. "I'M PULLIN MY TICKETS!"

 

that guy's decision on his tickets was made well before this move.

 

Although it was probably not the desired synergy that the Twins season ticket renewal packets came out this week. After three awful seasons this year's packet is decidedly light on featuring actual Twins players, however, choosing instead to focus on the 2014 All-Star game and the Twins' minor league prospects - most of whom we still won't actually get to see in 2014.

[jokin]

Although it was probably not the desired synergy that the Twins season ticket renewal packets came out this week. After three awful seasons this year's packet is decidedly light on featuring actual Twins players, however, choosing instead to focus on the 2014 All-Star game and the Twins' minor league prospects - most of whom we still won't actually get to see in 2014.

 

Or 2013 for that matter.

[Monkeypaws]

There are only two ways this works well for the twins. One they resign Morneau in the offseason or the PTBNL is a stud

 

Well it does also work well if they want to resign him, because of those 5/10 rights and the fact they won't need to come within a percentage of his previous salary: if I've been reading correctly.

 

I could really get behind this Pirates team.

[Bark's Lounge]

Colabello turns 30 this year. He's as much a prospect as Thomas is...in fact, he's just slightly older than Thomas.

 

Clete Thomas has been shuffled between the minors and majors since 2008. He has had enough time in the majors to be fairly and rightfully judged.

 

At the age of 29 Colabello is an exception to the prospect rule. Collabello went undrafted and played independent league baseball from 2005-2011 and played very well. He was fortunate that the Twins took notice and signed him to a minor league contract.

 

He has done nothing but impress at a high level offensively in the high minors the last 2 years and the amount of time he has played in the bigs this year is not nearly enough to judge him appropriately. He has shown some flashes of excellence and some flashes of being awful.

 

I am not saying he will make the grade, but the jury is still out on Chris Colabello. He needs more playing time to accurately assess his future.

 

Late Bloomers do happen from time to time.

[ScottyB]

Now we know why Pinto was already recalled. He's been activated for tonight's game according to Twins web site.

[Teflon]

Hoping Morneau gets a chance to relive this moment from our previous Twins' 1B (and now Miracle Manager)

 

[nicksaviking]

This reeks like the Liriano move. Why not just DFA him? In what possible way does another AAAA player taking up a 40-man roster spot help the Twins? Of course since he is Ryan's newest acquistion, he won't be considered for DFA as Ryan will need to try to prove that he knew what he was doing.

 

No return would have been better than this return and that marks two trades that will likely do more harm than good in two years.

 

So what would have Pittsburgh given up if the Twins had kicked in salary?

[Anorthagen]

Does anyone know why we got a outfielder in the first place, we already have enough with Willingham, Arcia, , Thomas, and Mastro. To me it doesn't make sense unless they plan on trading Willingham later on.

[Rosterman]

Well, I hate to see Morneau leave, but because the Twins couldn't reach a contract agreement, it is better to get something than nothing, Maybe the PTBNL will be a bonus.

 

What do the following have in common: Pelfry, Pavano, Capps, Cuddyer, Nathan, Kubel, Baker, Cabarra, Crain, Guerrier, Punto, Rauch.

 

Add in names like: Robertson, Benson, Valencia, Casilla, Marquis, Manship, Waldrop, Tosoni, Slowey, Everett, Ayala, Dickey, Neshek, Mijares, Jose Morales, Slama, Burnett. Maybe throw in Roeincke at season's end.

 

Unlike stellar names like Delmon Young, Francisco Liriano, Drew Butera...all of the above players, who have been stellar players for the Twins and reached free agency (their choice) or at least had a token cup of coffee on the roster, many managing 2 seasons or more -- the Twins have seen a return of...zero!

 

That's 30 bodies that the Twins ended up not feeling a need to keep in the organization, many of which were marketable at some point in their major (or minor) league careers to benefit the Twins organization in some way.

 

Better yet, how many made major league rosters this past season. How many aren't playing ball. This is just from the past few seasons, not counting other names that keep showing up in the major leagues.

 

Garrett Jones, Brock Peterson -- two first base candidates to name two. Randy Ruiz is still out there, playing like Chris Collabaro. All who the Twins let walk.

[cmb0252]

I don't understand why people are so upset. What did you expect to get for one month of a 1B who has .741 OPS? People do know that Morny isn't a MVP talent right?

 

Twins get a 4th outfielder, possibly get another player later, and give Morny a chance to play in the playoffs.

[Rosterman]

Assuming the Twins would not reach a contrast agreement with the Twins, and the Twins a far cry from offering him 14-million. They got a placesetter, saved a couple of mil, get to see Parmelee at first base, and move on. Maybe by season's end, both parties will come into play and Justin will return at the Twins rate of pay, or slug the hell out of the ball and get the last great contract of his dreams. We got soemthing. We got something for Liriano last season. We got nothing for Cuddyer, Kubel, Nathan...and more than nothing from Pavano and Capps. Be happy, folks. Justin can play for a ring...maybe!

[CharacterGroove]

and trading a player with a month left helps us in the long run? Where's the benefit in the long run.

 

Because we got something for him. Even if they don't pan out, and it's likely they won't, at least the page is turned and the team won't go through resigning negotiations this winter. That's a cloud over the offseason because we all like Morneau.

[jokin]

Well, I hate to see Morneau leave, but because the Twins couldn't reach a contract agreement, it is better to get something than nothing, Maybe the PTBNL will be a bonus.

 

What do the following have in common: Pelfry, Pavano, Capps, Cuddyer, Nathan, Kubel, Baker, Cabarra, Crain, Guerrier, Punto, Rauch.

 

Add in names like: Robertson, Benson, Valencia, Casilla, Marquis, Manship, Waldrop, Tosoni, Slowey, Everett, Ayala, Dickey, Neshek, Mijares, Jose Morales, Slama, Burnett. Maybe throw in Roeincke at season's end.

 

Unlike stellar names like Delmon Young, Francisco Liriano, Drew Butera...all of the above players, who have been stellar players for the Twins and reached free agency (their choice) or at least had a token cup of coffee on the roster, many managing 2 seasons or more -- the Twins have seen a return of...zero!

 

That's 30 bodies that the Twins ended up not feeling a need to keep in the organization, many of which were marketable at some point in their major (or minor) league careers to benefit the Twins organization in some way.

 

Better yet, how many made major league rosters this past season. How many aren't playing ball. This is just from the past few seasons, not counting other names that keep showing up in the major leagues.

 

Garrett Jones, Brock Peterson -- two first base candidates to name two. Randy Ruiz is still out there, playing like Chris Collabaro. All who the Twins let walk.

 

Add in Grant Balfour and Craig Breslow, 2 key RPs for 2 of the ALs best teams.

[ThePuck]

Because we got something for him. Even if they don't pan out, and it's likely they won't, at least the page is turned and the team won't go through resigning negotiations this winter. That's a cloud over the offseason because we all like Morneau.

 

I guess my disconnect was what long term meant. This offseason doesn't seem a long ways away. I also didn't see how we'd need to go through winter negotiations with him if we didn't want him anyway...so avoiding something unnecessary didn't occur to me.

[jokin]

I don't understand why people are so upset. What did you expect to get for one month of a 1B who has .741 OPS? People do know that Morny isn't a MVP talent right?

 

Twins get a 4th outfielder, possibly get another player later, and give Morny a chance to play in the playoffs.

 

Well, based on his career numbers, it looks more like the Twins added their 4th, "Fifth" OFer, if you follow the convolution.

 

Not that I disagree with your basic point.

[nicksaviking]

Assuming the Twins would not reach a contrast agreement with the Twins, and the Twins a far cry from offering him 14-million. They got a placesetter, saved a couple of mil, get to see Parmelee at first base, and move on. Maybe by season's end, both parties will come into play and Justin will return at the Twins rate of pay, or slug the hell out of the ball and get the last great contract of his dreams. We got soemthing. We got something for Liriano last season. We got nothing for Cuddyer, Kubel, Nathan...and more than nothing from Pavano and Capps. Be happy, folks. Justin can play for a ring...maybe!

 

Well I think the bolded statement is why most fans are upset. If negotiations came down to the wire like they did and the Twins got a DFA candidate in return, clearing payroll likely was top priority, not acquiring a player with better upside.

 

My previous post was more negative then needed but it is frustrating. This along with the Liriano move seem much more like Chicago and Pittsburgh finding a sucker to take three non-tender's off their hands yet the Twins are more than happy wasting spots on them. I seriosly doubt Pittsburgh said take Pressley AND we'll pay Morneau's salary and that is our only offer.

[John Bonnes]

Well, I'll give my two cents: unless the PBTNL is the more significant piece, I don't like the trade.

 

1. It smells like a salary dump. In fact, as someone said above, it smells a lot like the Liriano trade from last year: up against the deadline the Twins got the best offer they could to save themselves $2.3M.

 

2. Presley is, at best, a slightly better Clete Thomas, and we already have a Clete Thomas. The Twins don't need that player. Presley is very unlikely to be part of the next competitive Twins team.

 

3. No, I didn't think they would get much for Morneau. And they didn't. But I can't help but wonder what they could have gotten if they weren't insistent on not paying the $2.3M. Or if they at least could have gotten a piece that was better suited to the organization. For instance, if this guy was a 27yo pitcher who had bounced between AAA and MLB, I'd be a lot more forgiving.

 

4. The only thing that give me some hope is that Ryan was rumored to be asking for much more from teams than this. So maybe the PTBNL is something significant. After all, Liriano was a throw-in. And Ryan has a track record of doing fairly well on such trades. But this is pretty disappointing.

[The Greatest Poster Alive]

Well, I'll give my two cents: unless the PBTNL is the more significant piece, I don't like the trade.

 

1. It smells like a salary dump. In fact, as someone said above, it smells a lot like the Liriano trade from last year: up against the deadline the Twins got the best offer they could to save themselves $2.3M.

 

2. Presley is, at best, a slightly better Clete Thomas, and we already have a Clete Thomas. The Twins don't need that player. Presley is very unlikely to be part of the next competitive Twins team.

 

3. No, I didn't think they would get much for Morneau. And they didn't. But I can't help but wonder what they could have gotten if they weren't insistent on not paying the $2.3M. Or if they at least could have gotten a piece that was better suited to the organization. For instance, if this guy was a 27yo pitcher who had bounced between AAA and MLB, I'd be a lot more forgiving.

 

4. The only thing that give me some hope is that Ryan was rumored to be asking for much more from teams than this. So maybe the PTBNL is something significant. After all, Liriano was a throw-in. And Ryan has a track record of doing fairly well on such trades. But this is pretty disappointing.

 

got a source for that?

[cmb0252]

Tweet from Travis Sawchik:

 

Did the price for Morneau drop from July 31? "Absolutely" Huntington said. Huntington said the PTBNL is "significant".

 

I wonder what significant means.

[John Bonnes]

got a source for that?

 

Not for today's negotiations, but there have been multiple reports from national media that other teams were not interested in Morneau because of the money he was owed. If the Twins were volunteering to pay a portion of that, presumably that would not have been an issue.

[darin617]

Go Justin...glad you are getting another chance to go to the payoffs. Pure salary dump by the Twins..well, The Pohlads do love their money

 

Now continue the salary dump and get rid of Mauer so you can start the rebuilding process.

[Reginald Maudling's Shin]

Not for today's negotiations, but there have been multiple reports from national media that other teams were not interested in Morneau because of the money he was owed. If the Twins were volunteering to pay a portion of that, presumably that would not have been an issue.

To me, paying all or part of $2 million is not a good value to obtain a prospect. So I can't fault the Twins for not going that route.

[Shane Wahl]

This gives Justin a chance to win now and maybe the PTBNL is good enough to matter.

[John Bonnes]

Quick question: didn't PIT give up a pretty decent player as a PTBNL earlier this week? A pitcher named Black or something?