Will Twins Pitching Coach Pete Maki Be the Fall Guy?

[thelanges5]

We’ve fired Rocco, bench coaches, hitting coaches, 3rd base coaches and we have the same results. Time to move on from some of these players. 

[bean5302]

46 minutes ago, thelanges5 said:

We’ve fired Rocco, bench coaches, hitting coaches, 3rd base coaches and we have the same results. Time to move on from some of these players. 

Who, from the 2023 team will still be on the roster next year?
Lopez, Ryan, Ober, Buxton. That's... probably about it.

Who are we moving on from?

[Paul Walerius]

12 hours ago, #3Killer said:

Not in complete agreement with this. Our starters and relievers lack consistency very badly. That should be an issue coaches can deal with. Glad you mentioned LaTroy- I get it that he is a local favorite but the blame for inconsistent relievers needs to be on him. This whole team needs to step up its game- so up and down!!!!

A lot of that, IMO, has to do with experience.   I think they have done phenomenal, if you look at where they started.  

 

[Richie the Rally Goat]

7 hours ago, Hawkeye Bean Counter said:

Seriously, so we are just in the change for change sake? We came into the season down a pitcher and no bullpen. We have rebuilt a bullpen on the fly. SWR cratered, Obers velocity is vanishing, yet he had promising progress with Abel and Bradley is a win.  He is not getting fired. 

My “no participation trophies” comment was about the prior commenter wanting to give Maki a raise. He hasn’t earned a raise. I never actually said I wanted to fire Maki, but if they do, I can absolutely see why.

The rotation has under performed expectations. Pre-season projections after Pablo injuries had them a top third rotation, they’re a bottom 5 staff.
 

The bullpen that started the season as unserious, received 3 huge upgrades at the deadline and is still a bottom 5 bullpen.

the rotation was supposed to be the strength of the team, and it was almost as weak as the bullpen. Every team uses 8-10 different starters per year, that’s the average.

[tarheeltwinsfan]

14 hours ago, soyouresayingtheresachance said:

Somebody needs to be the fall guy, I guess.

But it seems more like an organizational problem. The minor league levels are filled with high ERAs and poor performance. Rarely, if ever, do we have a pitcher debut looking ready to be in the ML. 

If we need a fall guy, just release Pablo Lopez because he was injured all year.  Or just release the owners for allowing the trade of all the good bullpen arms at one time last year. How ridiculous would that be? We don't have near enough information to form reasonable opinions about this topic. Too many variables at play here.

[Coach]

If there is to be a blame game, I would put it on the trainers.  Too many strains and pains.  An off-season training program needs to be monitored.  More emphasis needs to be on endurance conditioning, Blyleven used to run and nothing else (Ryan can't even make it past the All Star break).  Less weights, more flexibility; too many lat, hammy, shoulder, and lower back strains.  All can be prevented.  We need to be much more proactive.  It frustrates me that when there is an injury, they never address the root cause, which always leads to a setback, or a repeat.   

[wesnewy]

if he hasn't been the fall guy for the last three Twins collapses why would he be for this one?

[HarmonK03]

12 hours ago, DocBauer said:

And on a personal level, I haven't fully decided if he should be fired yet. Does he deserve an opportunity to prove himself? 

When Zoll was elevated to the top spot, it was really the only option with spring training about to start.

But now Tom P. has had time to assess him and not just this past year.  He has been a major part of the front office for the last 6 years and with the team for the last 10 years.  I can't believe Falvey made every decision on his own and didn't rely on Zoll, even Falvey alluded that he has in the past.

So now we have had one playoff win in the last 10 years and sub .500 teams struggling at the end of the season the last 3 years.  Do you really want to give Zoll time to prove himself, when the track record of what he has been a major part of is not good.  For me I would prefer someone who has proven themselves, if they want to keep Zoll as the number 2, not what I would do but I could live with it.  This organization needs a review from top to bottom of what they are doing well and what is not working because something is not clicking.  And typically the best option to do this for any organization in any industry is with new voices.

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

3 hours ago, Richie the Rally Goat said:

My “no participation trophies” comment was about the prior commenter wanting to give Maki a raise. He hasn’t earned a raise. I never actually said I wanted to fire Maki, but if they do, I can absolutely see why.

The rotation has under performed expectations. Pre-season projections after Pablo injuries had them a top third rotation, they’re a bottom 5 staff.
 

The bullpen that started the season as unserious, received 3 huge upgrades at the deadline and is still a bottom 5 bullpen.

the rotation was supposed to be the strength of the team, and it was almost as weak as the bullpen. Every team uses 8-10 different starters per year, that’s the average.

After Pablo was injured,  top 1/3 rotation?  Where?      I was seeing middle to back of the pack.   Ryan, Ober, Bradley have all had pretty good seasons.  Kremer has been at least a solid 3-4 while he has been here.  I see no where for the season where they think our starters have been a bottom 5 staff.    

We added to significant assets to the bullpen -  Hoffman and then to a lesser extent and shorter time frame, Minter.    Now the last month Morris is falling back to reality (or tipping pitches) and statistically Minter is coming back down - but we are also utilizing him a lot more than he has been used in the past.  

Bullpen as currently constructed I would say is in the 18-22 but that is just purely guessing at this point. 

I really think you are over estimated what this team was.   For pitching staff - starters were a strength after injuries middle of the pack.  That seems about right.  Relief pitchers - worse in the league - now in the 18-23 range.  Hitters - below average.   

To start the season the hitters outperformed with runs scored,   bullpen struggled early,   starters have been fairly consistent.   Middle of the season hitters went on a tear scoring runs,  Bullpen seemed to greatly outperform.  Starting pitching was holding their own.  To end the season with a tougher schedule,  all 3 phases are underperforming in my opinion for the talent.  Granted some injuries.