Time for Roden and Kreidler to go down

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

14 minutes ago, Cory Engelhardt said:

You are still talking about the backup to the backup. Not the backup. The backup TO the backup.

And that's only IF either the starter or the backup get hurt. Which they haven't. 

IF one of them gets hurt in a game, then the other finishes that game and the Twins can call up someone from AAA to be there by the next game right? To be the backup again.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2026/05/twins-ryan-jeffers-hamate-fracture-alex-jackson.html
 

Jeffers injury is why Jackson was called up. It’s clear you think Jackson is as replaceable by our AAA hitters hitting below the Mendoza line. 

[Vanimal46]

1 minute ago, Hawkeye Bean Counter said:

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2026/05/twins-ryan-jeffers-hamate-fracture-alex-jackson.html
 

Jeffers injury is why Jackson was called up. It’s clear you think Jackson is as replaceable by our AAA hitters hitting below the Mendoza line. 

Man, why isn't this star player playing at all on this team? We could use the offense. 

[Cory Engelhardt]

2 minutes ago, Hawkeye Bean Counter said:

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2026/05/twins-ryan-jeffers-hamate-fracture-alex-jackson.html
 

Jeffers injury is why Jackson was called up. It’s clear you think Jackson is as replaceable by our AAA hitters hitting below the Mendoza line. 

Sure, as far as, I think Jenkins or Rodriguez or Ben Ross even could provide more value than Alex Jackson currently, who isn't playing. 

If Caratini or Jeffers do get hurt, and they need a different backup catcher, that's still someone who won't play all that often at this point. Jackson hasn't caught a game in more than 2 weeks.

[clone52]

2 hours ago, Cory Engelhardt said:

What if I told you that Jenkins, Rodriguez and Buxton will all be here by playoff time.

Would that change the equation for you on if a 3rd catcher is necessary?

Definitely wouldn't need 3 catchers on a playoff roster.  I would never consider that 

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

7 hours ago, Cory Engelhardt said:

What if I told you that Jenkins, Rodriguez and Buxton will all be here by playoff time.

Would that change the equation for you on if a 3rd catcher is necessary?

If the intention was to just drop him Cory, why didn’t they trade him at the deadline?  As stated none of those 3 play catcher.   
 

They have carried him for 5 weeks as insurance purposes I’m sure they will carry him 3 more until the expansion of rosters.  

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

6 hours ago, Vanimal46 said:

Man, why isn't this star player playing at all on this team? We could use the offense. 

Who called him a star player?  He’s a solid player that due to not having any options left and the Twins lack of investing in the Catcher position for multiple years has left us with no current viable backups in the minors.  I’m not saying this is a great situation but it’s the situation they are in. Also he’s the ideal 13th player as he doesn’t need a lot of playing time.  
 

We keep running in circles and yet he remains on the big league team,

[HarmonK03]

42 minutes ago, Hawkeye Bean Counter said:

If the intention was to just drop him Cory, why didn’t they trade him at the deadline?  As stated none of those 3 play catcher.   
 

They have carried him for 5 weeks as insurance purposes I’m sure they will carry him 3 more until the expansion of rosters.  

Expansion of the rosters have no factor in this, the Twins in the last 3 years have never called up a catcher as their 14th position player.  They are only going to call up one position player based on historical facts.

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

6 minutes ago, HarmonK03 said:

Expansion of the rosters have no factor in this, the Twins in the last 3 years have never called up a catcher as their 14th position player.  They are only going to call up one position player based on historical facts.

Your argument and Corey’s argument is not filling his spot with a different player is costing the Twins wins. With 14 roster spots that 13 man argument goes away. We now have 14 man roster- where that player is almost entirely insurance purposes. Which losses did Jackson lose? Is there any games Jackson has helped win?

[HarmonK03]

11 minutes ago, Hawkeye Bean Counter said:

Your argument and Corey’s argument is not filling his spot with a different player is costing the Twins wins. With 14 roster spots that 13 man argument goes away. We now have 14 man roster- where that player is almost entirely insurance purposes. Which losses did Jackson lose? Is there any games Jackson has helped win?

First why do you plan on filing a roster spot that you aren't going to use, that makes no sense.

In the last week alone there were at least two games we needed a pinch hitter in the later innings and there was no one available except Jackson so no pinch hit and no hit.  Would it have changed the game, there is no way to know, but they did not have a move to make because they continue to carry a 13th player they don't use.  Jackson is just the latest example.

[Riverbrian]

8 hours ago, KirbyDome89 said:

Roden is over 200 career PAs with a mid .500s OPS. 

Slumping a bit is an understatement if we're talking about Kreidler. He has an OPS in the low .400s over the last 6 weeks. 

Neither of these guys has any track record of hitting Major League pitching. How much patience can this team afford if they're desperately trying to win games, and what's the reward for said patience?

Congrats on getting both Hawkeye and Harmon to give a thumbs up to your post. I would have bet against that specific combination. 😁

Here's the deal. I'm not going to get into a subjective individual conversation where I have to become a Roden or Kreidler fan in order to defend them from others. 

I'm not going to spend a ton of time worrying about past stats which end up being small sample upon small sample. 

Kody Clemens had some pretty rough stats in his first go around and he's slumping pretty bad right now but you'll never convince me that Clemens hasn't been extremely important to this 2026 club regardless of either the rough small sample start to his career or the current slump.

I'm not going to get into an argument that Kreidler hasn't been important to this 2026 club with Lee shifting to 3B and I'm not going to react to his current hitting woes. It isn't worth the argument... Sending Kreidler down makes no sense with our infield depth. I worry that Kreidler gets hurt. Thats' the more sensible discussion. What do we do if Kreidler gets hurt? We don't have the infield depth... that's why Kreidler is here in the first place and he has performed better than all of us expected. Now Culpepper is up and Culpepper will get the majority of his playing time. 

Roden... I don't know how he is going to do. I don't know what he will become. Nobody on this website does. 

The front office gave him a roster spot and the manager put him in the lineup against right handed pitchers. Let him build a decent sample. 

We have to develop... top quality, good quality and average quality. Development requires investment. You either believe in the guy or you don't. Show some patience... In the meantime he won't kill you and the 26 man pressure will force decisions. Buxton will come off the IL tonight and somebody will have to go down.

It's either Roden or it's Jackson. It won't be Kriedler. 

 

[MMBoys93]

1 hour ago, Hawkeye Bean Counter said:

If the intention was to just drop him Cory, why didn’t they trade him at the deadline?  As stated none of those 3 play catcher.   
 

They have carried him for 5 weeks as insurance purposes I’m sure they will carry him 3 more until the expansion of rosters.  

I think 2 reasons why.

A) they wanted to be sure Jeffers was healthy

B) Jackson doesn’t really have value. Even after a .740 ops last year nobody wanted him in late March when the Twins DFAd him. He’s had extreme BABIP luck 2025-2026 and he’s going to come back down to earth hard very soon. 

[MMBoys93]

8 hours ago, Hawkeye Bean Counter said:

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2026/05/twins-ryan-jeffers-hamate-fracture-alex-jackson.html
 

Jeffers injury is why Jackson was called up. It’s clear you think Jackson is as replaceable by our AAA hitters hitting below the Mendoza line. 

Based on the fact that the twins have given Jackson all of four plate appearances in the last 2+ weeks it seems pretty clear the twins feel that way as well.
 

He isn’t starting or pinch hitting because he’s benefited from some of the most insane BABIP luck over his last 170 PAs that I’ve ever seen. If Shelton had faith, he would have gotten some ABs during this stretch where the Twins offense has been flat. 

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

2 hours ago, MMBoys93 said:

Based on the fact that the twins have given Jackson all of four plate appearances in the last 2+ weeks it seems pretty clear the twins feel that way as well.
 

He isn’t starting or pinch hitting because he’s benefited from some of the most insane BABIP luck over his last 170 PAs that I’ve ever seen. If Shelton had faith, he would have gotten some ABs during this stretch where the Twins offense has been flat. 

And yet he is still here 

[stringer bell]

Mention has been made of optioning Martin. While his overall season hasn't raised his value, he's done a couple of things very well--hit and get on base against left handed pitching and play a decent corner outfield. Martin has graded out by far as the best defensive outfielder on the corners and his OBP vs. LH pitching is over 40%. The other thing is that his last option hasn't been used to date and if he were optioned, he would be in the same situation as Rodriguez next year, all for sending him down for about two weeks.

[MMBoys93]

5 hours ago, Hawkeye Bean Counter said:

And yet he is still here 

Nobody ever said the Twins org was too bright 

[MMBoys93]

4 hours ago, stringer bell said:

Mention has been made of optioning Martin. While his overall season hasn't raised his value, he's done a couple of things very well--hit and get on base against left handed pitching and play a decent corner outfield. Martin has graded out by far as the best defensive outfielder on the corners and his OBP vs. LH pitching is over 40%. The other thing is that his last option hasn't been used to date and if he were optioned, he would be in the same situation as Rodriguez next year, all for sending him down for about two weeks.

As usual the twins are simply dreadful against lefties so I don’t see him getting optioned. I’d love to find a way to give Aaron “1.300 ops against lefties” Sabato a look 

[KirbyDome89]

6 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

Congrats on getting both Hawkeye and Harmon to give a thumbs up to your post. I would have bet against that specific combination. 😁

Here's the deal. I'm not going to get into a subjective individual conversation where I have to become a Roden or Kreidler fan in order to defend them from others. 

I'm not going to spend a ton of time worrying about past stats which end up being small sample upon small sample. 

Kody Clemens had some pretty rough stats in his first go around and he's slumping pretty bad right now but you'll never convince me that Clemens hasn't been extremely important to this 2026 club regardless of either the rough small sample start to his career or the current slump.

I'm not going to get into an argument that Kreidler hasn't been important to this 2026 club with Lee shifting to 3B and I'm not going to react to his current hitting woes. It isn't worth the argument... Sending Kreidler down makes no sense with our infield depth. I worry that Kreidler gets hurt. Thats' the more sensible discussion. What do we do if Kreidler gets hurt? We don't have the infield depth... that's why Kreidler is here in the first place and he has performed better than all of us expected. Now Culpepper is up and Culpepper will get the majority of his playing time. 

Roden... I don't know how he is going to do. I don't know what he will become. Nobody on this website does. 

The front office gave him a roster spot and the manager put him in the lineup against right handed pitchers. Let him build a decent sample. 

We have to develop... top quality, good quality and average quality. Development requires investment. You either believe in the guy or you don't. Show some patience... In the meantime he won't kill you and the 26 man pressure will force decisions. Buxton will come off the IL tonight and somebody will have to go down.

It's either Roden or it's Jackson. It won't be Kriedler. 

 

It's a special kind of skill.

Yeah, I guess I'm not willing to go clean slate here. No fan club membership necessary, I'm just asking what type of production can we reasonably expect moving forward, and is that a wise investment over higher upside players if you're trying to win right now? Pretty bad is an understatement if we're talking about offensive production for either player, and this team needs offensive help. 

Agreed that the 26 man pressure will force their hand, it always does, and I think that's problematic. The Twins have been far more reactive than proactive with roster building and decision making, and IMO it's hurt them. I don't think you can have your cake and eat it too in this situation. If you're serious about winning, which the club has adamantly stated they are, then you need to make decisions that maximize games today. If that means a "quick hook," then so be it. Preaching patience here feels like another half measure, or middle ground type move because these guys actually are killing you offensively. 

[KirbyDome89]

6 hours ago, stringer bell said:

Mention has been made of optioning Martin. While his overall season hasn't raised his value, he's done a couple of things very well--hit and get on base against left handed pitching and play a decent corner outfield. Martin has graded out by far as the best defensive outfielder on the corners and his OBP vs. LH pitching is over 40%. The other thing is that his last option hasn't been used to date and if he were optioned, he would be in the same situation as Rodriguez next year, all for sending him down for about two weeks.

He'll be 28 next year, in his fourth big league season. If you're looking at optioning him at that point he's in the Matt Wallner category. 

A corner OF with no real power who is only playable against LHP is a really niche role. 

[Riverbrian]

42 minutes ago, KirbyDome89 said:

It's a special kind of skill.

Yeah, I guess I'm not willing to go clean slate here. No fan club membership necessary, I'm just asking what type of production can we reasonably expect moving forward, and is that a wise investment over higher upside players if you're trying to win right now? Pretty bad is an understatement if we're talking about offensive production for either player, and this team needs offensive help. 

Agreed that the 26 man pressure will force their hand, it always does, and I think that's problematic. The Twins have been far more reactive than proactive with roster building and decision making, and IMO it's hurt them. I don't think you can have your cake and eat it too in this situation. If you're serious about winning, which the club has adamantly stated they are, then you need to make decisions that maximize games today. If that means a "quick hook," then so be it. Preaching patience here feels like another half measure, or middle ground type move because these guys actually are killing you offensively. 

That's the key question. How can a team that needs to win baseball games show patience? Should they at all? If they do... how much patience is required?

And all of this needs to be done on a roller coaster because players go up and they go down. 

Managers hold meetings with staff and go over lineups for optimizing the order, the shifts just to give their team the best chance to win and the manager on the other side is doing the same thing. If the manager doesn't win... he'll be fired... if the GM doesn't win... the GM will be fired. It's pressure that you can't be casual about. 

I get it.

However... there is one very important point. It's takes time to stabilize stats. The difference between Jeffers and his .878 OPS and Tristan Gray's .591 took over 240 and 188 AB's respectively and all the way into August to accumulate. 

Tristan Gray had a .500 Slug during his first 48 AB's this year. Ryan Jeffers had a .290 Slug over his first 34 AB's. Then he went for 3 for 3 against the Blue Jays and his slug was suddenly .441 and then a couple games later he went 3 for 3 against the Red Sox and his slug was suddenly .512. From April 5 to April 13 over 17 AB's... Jeffers OPS rose from .571 to .952. 

55 AB's is nothing and his last 3 AB's. He went 3 for 3 and those 3 AB's took his OPS from .490 to .610. Let him increase his sample. A little hot streak will change the numbers and opinions fast but many have already lost patience. 

Back to the most important point. It takes time to accumulate statistical differences and they happen on a roller coaster. But... If you do the math... how much of a difference is it in an individual AB or individual game. I don't believe that Roden or Kriedler in a lineup kills us in an individual game. Byron Buxton has probably accumulated 400 O'fers during the course of his career. 

[HarmonK03]

18 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

That's the key question. How can a team that needs to win baseball games show patience? Should they at all? If they do... how much patience is required?

And all of this needs to be done on a roller coaster because players go up and they go down. 

Managers hold meetings with staff and go over lineups for optimizing the order, the shifts just to give their team the best chance to win and the manager on the other side is doing the same thing. If the manager doesn't win... he'll be fired... if the GM doesn't win... the GM will be fired. It's pressure that you can't be casual about. 

I get it.

However... there is one very important point. It's takes time to stabilize stats. The difference between Jeffers and his .878 OPS and Tristan Gray's .591 took over 240 and 188 AB's respectively and all the way into August to accumulate. 

Tristan Gray had a .500 Slug during his first 48 AB's this year. Ryan Jeffers had a .290 Slug over his first 34 AB's. Then he went for 3 for 3 against the Blue Jays and his slug was suddenly .441 and then a couple games later he went 3 for 3 against the Red Sox and his slug was suddenly .512. From April 5 to April 13 over 17 AB's... Jeffers OPS rose from .571 to .952. 

55 AB's is nothing and his last 3 AB's. He went 3 for 3 and those 3 AB's took his OPS from .490 to .610. Let him increase his sample. A little hot streak will change the numbers and opinions fast but many have already lost patience. 

Back to the most important point. It takes time to accumulate statistical differences and they happen on a roller coaster. But... If you do the math... how much of a difference is it in an individual AB or individual game. I don't believe that Roden or Kriedler in a lineup kills us in an individual game. Byron Buxton has probably accumulated 400 O'fers during the course of his career. 

At this point in the season, patience has to be at a minimum for a contending team.  And Roden has done nothing to warrant them having patience with him.  Again why are we so focused on this year's numbers, he has 200 AB's and has yet to grab hold of an opportunity and say give me more playing time.  He has not had aggressive swings at the plate before yesterday and he looks tentative on defense.  Not saying we get rid of him but he needs to come to spring training and earn a spot on the 26 man roster, his time is running out with all the younger outfielders coming up behind.

As for stats, you have history and Gray's said that was not sustainable and it showed to be true.

I want players in the lineup that will make at least a small contribution to a win, not someone who won't kill us.  That is what gets you a sub .500 record.

[Riverbrian]

12 hours ago, HarmonK03 said:

At this point in the season, patience has to be at a minimum for a contending team.  And Roden has done nothing to warrant them having patience with him.  Again why are we so focused on this year's numbers, he has 200 AB's and has yet to grab hold of an opportunity and say give me more playing time.  He has not had aggressive swings at the plate before yesterday and he looks tentative on defense.  Not saying we get rid of him but he needs to come to spring training and earn a spot on the 26 man roster, his time is running out with all the younger outfielders coming up behind.

As for stats, you have history and Gray's said that was not sustainable and it showed to be true.

I want players in the lineup that will make at least a small contribution to a win, not someone who won't kill us.  That is what gets you a sub .500 record.

I'll have to repeat myself but I'm not going to get into an subjective argument and get lost in your looks tentative on defense opinion.

I don't want to get stuck into becoming a Roden Fan in order to defend him. I had a round and round about Polanco a few years back and I'm not doing that again. And I'm not going to get labeled a Bader Hater when I'm not. 

I'm watching the games. I know the stats. 

I apologize but I'm going to have to ask you to prove that Roden is killing us. Dramatic statements like killing us keep getting thrown out as he gets torn apart and I understand that this is what social media is and my presence on this website indicates a willingness to participate.

But please... these players are trying to carve out a career and you say killing us as you tie anchors to them. 

The Twins are 13-11 in the 24 games he has played. They are 9-4 in the 13 games he has received at least 3 plate appearances, He has 30 total defensive chances in those 24 games. 

He's 11th in AB's with 41 in the past 30 days. He has a .644 OPS while Buxton is 12th in AB's during the same stretch with a .433 OPS. In April we can talk about the OPS and number of AB's given to Lewis and Keaschall. In May in 2026. Josh Bell had 98 AB's in May and a .562 OPS. Caratini had a .475 in May over 56 AB's. 

It takes time to accumulate the stats that we look at and during that time... there are ups and down. 

I'm not here to say that Roden is the next Soto... nor to become a Roden fan and I don't want to be here defending him but I guess I have to. 

I am here to say... that if you want development... patience is required. And we may need a little patience with Jenkins when he gets the call. And we need to develop more than Jenkins.

In the meantime... just how much damage does he inflict on an individual game? 

 

[HarmonK03]

2 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

I'll have to repeat myself but I'm not going to get into an subjective argument and get lost in your looks tentative on defense opinion.

I don't want to get stuck into becoming a Roden Fan in order to defend him. I had a round and round about Polanco a few years back and I'm not doing that again. And I'm not going to get labeled a Bader Hater when I'm not. 

I'm watching the games. I know the stats. 

I apologize but I'm going to have to ask you to prove that Roden is killing us. Dramatic statements like killing us keep getting thrown out as he gets torn apart and I understand that this is what social media is and my presence on this website indicates a willingness to participate.

But please... these players are trying to carve out a career and you say killing us as you tie anchors to them. 

The Twins are 13-11 in the 24 games he has played. They are 9-4 in the 13 games he has received at least 3 plate appearances, He has 30 total defensive chances in those 24 games. 

He's 11th in AB's with 41 in the past 30 days. He has a .644 OPS while Buxton is 12th in AB's during the same stretch with a .433 OPS. In April we can talk about the OPS and number of AB's given to Lewis and Keaschall. In May in 2026. Josh Bell had 98 AB's in May and a .562 OPS. Caratini had a .475 in May over 56 AB's. In April we can talk about the OPS and number of AB's given to Lewis and Keaschall. Roden just passed them all by with one good game. 

It takes time to accumulate the stats that we look and during that time... there are ups and down. 

I'm not here to say that Roden is the next Soto... nor to become a Roden fan and I don't want to be here defending him but I guess I have to. 

I am here to say... that if you want development... patience is required. And we may need a little patience with Jenkins when he gets the call. And we need to develop more than Jenkins. 

 

I understand your comments.  A couple of points of clarification.

Your original comment said that having Kreidler and Roden in a lineup don't kill us, my point is I want someone who can help us win, kind of glass half full vs. half empty.  The way I took your comment is they won't do anything to lose the game, I am looking for a little more proactive than reactive.

As for Roden, Jenkins is six years younger and that is something that is starting to work against Roden.  I feel like a lot of comments about Roden are coming across as this is his first time in the major leagues and it is not.  Now is 200 AB's a fair sample overall, probably not, so your point about patience is fair.  But Jenkins is a top 5 pick and the reality is you have to do a lot more than Roden has in his major league resume to block his playing time if the team feels he is ready.  I am hoping the team comes to this conclusion soon.

I think Roden could have a future as a 4th outfielder but he has a lot of players coming up behind him and he may not be afforded the time needed to show that. In baseball time, he is not young anymore and his window is not going to stay open forever.  I am hoping he comes to spring training and forces the issue and becomes a contributor on the team.  But this team will be a better team long term with Jenkins than Roden and getting him here now, I believe he will contribute in enough small ways for this year that will also have a benefit for future years.  Roden is getting caught in a numbers game and it may be with another organization that he finds his place.  I don't think we are there yet, but trading for him was a headscratcher in this was an area where there was plenty of options.

[Riverbrian]

2 hours ago, HarmonK03 said:

I understand your comments.  A couple of points of clarification.

Your original comment said that having Kreidler and Roden in a lineup don't kill us, my point is I want someone who can help us win, kind of glass half full vs. half empty.  The way I took your comment is they won't do anything to lose the game, I am looking for a little more proactive than reactive.

As for Roden, Jenkins is six years younger and that is something that is starting to work against Roden.  I feel like a lot of comments about Roden are coming across as this is his first time in the major leagues and it is not.  Now is 200 AB's a fair sample overall, probably not, so your point about patience is fair.  But Jenkins is a top 5 pick and the reality is you have to do a lot more than Roden has in his major league resume to block his playing time if the team feels he is ready.  I am hoping the team comes to this conclusion soon.

I think Roden could have a future as a 4th outfielder but he has a lot of players coming up behind him and he may not be afforded the time needed to show that. In baseball time, he is not young anymore and his window is not going to stay open forever.  I am hoping he comes to spring training and forces the issue and becomes a contributor on the team.  But this team will be a better team long term with Jenkins than Roden and getting him here now, I believe he will contribute in enough small ways for this year that will also have a benefit for future years.  Roden is getting caught in a numbers game and it may be with another organization that he finds his place.  I don't think we are there yet, but trading for him was a headscratcher in this was an area where there was plenty of options.

I don't think we are that far off. I have spent a lot of time on this website talking about the constant need for 13 players who can play and I've read a lot of your posts and you spend a lot of time talking about the need for development and I agree... development is crucial for any organization but the need for development with a budget like the Twins has to have a stronger adjective than crucial. this means that we need Jenkins to become the superstar he is projected to become and we need players like Roden (or someone else) to be at least average and hopefully better and we won't get there if players are tossed aside after a short period of time if they don't hit the ground running.   

The context of the roster (health and performance) and the sensible choices available are going to determine Roden's immediate fate. I'll stand here and defend Roden today and his small sample but with Buxton back... it might be time to send him back to the minors because the 26 man roster limitations are going to force the front office to cull to make room for Buxton and that culling should occur at the bottom of the performance metrics.

Even with his small sample that I will defend.,, Roden just might be at that bottom when the choice needs to be made. If the team doesn't want to lose Jackson who they are not utilizing currently. It is Roden or Martin who has an option available that are your choices to make room for Buxton and somebody has to go before Saturday unless there is an injury somewhere and I'm ok with that being Roden. I'm responding to the 55 AB's and the comments from others that we have seen enough of him. 

Edit... It was Jackson... Roden is still with us.  

We might have to show patience with Culpepper and we might have to show that patience while we are trying to reach the playoffs and that's OK with me because Culpepper just like Roden needs to see some 90 MPH sliders and pitchers who can paint corners and work through it on the journey to becoming what they will eventually become. 

There are people who are OK with Culpepper patience but have no Roden patience and that difference is usually influenced by draft position, rankings put together by others or articles written by others. It's subjective in the end but it leads to players like Lewis or Kepler getting a lot of rope and Kyler Fedko getting almost none.

I'm saying that we need Culpepper to develop, we need Jenkins to develop and we need Erod and Roden or Fedko to develop as well because there are 26 roster spots to fill today and there will be 26 roster spots to fill the next year and the year after that and it's the only way to break our dependance on the free agent market and the free agent market is where we can't compete. We have to utilize the 2nd tier. I'd rather we produce a 2nd tier along with that first tier because we all should know that we can't sign a superstar. The Dodgers and the Mets get those guys. Yes we need the obvious superstar developed, we haven't produced superstars lately and I'm wondering where they are. We also need to develop average players along with Jenkins so we stop spending 4 million here and 7 million here filling the holes with average players that we  would be better of producing ourselves... it's why I count minimum salary players on each roster. That 2nd teir being tossed aside is spillage and that spillage could be a part of our overall development problem. The impression that they are killing us while they work through some things or the thought they they are a detriment to trying to win baseball games while working through some things. I'm just not sure that letting them work through some things is killing us on a game to game basis right now but I am worried that the lack of patience will kill us in the future. 

As for the age thing. I get it's importance but it also goes both ways. Jenkins debuting at age 21 would be impressive but it could also mean that his best years will be spent with another club when he reaches free agency at age 27.

As for the 28 year old... getting 3 years of average is also a benefit because that replaces the one year contract of a .700 OPS guy at 7 million a pop.  

Age isn't something that concerns me... again... I understand the difference between a 21 year old and a 27 year old but my concern will always be... will they be back next year.

If they make improvements can those be improvements be utilized the following year in a Twins uniform. Our coaches will work with Josh Bell to make him better this year. Making Josh Bell better is great for right now but any improvements that he makes or anything that he fixes will be utilized next year in another uniform. I assume that we have a rather large staff of coaches and analysts who have jobs for the primary purpose of improving players and if they are doing their jobs helping to make players better, if players are putting the work in to get better and I sure hope that they are... they will make past stats irrelevant. 

Kody Clemens... His past stats in multiple small samples stretches are currently not relevant. He is 30 years old and he could be a Twin for 3 more years if we want him and as long as he is playing above average... we would want him for 3 more years. However... as a fan base if we collectively want to replace him in the next 3 years or find someone better. We won't be finding that player in free agency... we have to develop his replacement and that process starts right now.  

As far as Kriedler goes. He's been better than expected... he's another example of a player making past stats not relevant. Is he good enough to stop looking for better. No he is not good enough to stop looking for better. However in the current context of this team. We don't have the infield depth to replace him. He's necessary right now and I'm happy for him. This is his chance to carve out a career.  

[HarmonK03]

24 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

I don't think we are that far off. I have spent a lot of time on this website talking about the constant need for 13 players who can play and I've read a lot of your posts and you spend a lot of time talking about the need for development and I agree... development is crucial for any organization but the need for development with a budget like the Twins has to have a stronger adjective than crucial. this means that we need Jenkins to become the superstar he is projected to become and we need players like Roden (or someone else) to be at least average and hopefully better and we won't get there if players are tossed aside after a short period of time if they don't hit the ground running.   

The context of the roster (health and performance) and the sensible choices available are going to determine Roden's immediate fate. I'll stand here and defend Roden today and his small sample but with Buxton back... it might be time to send him back to the minors because the 26 man roster limitations are going to force the front office to cull to make room for Buxton and that culling should occur at the bottom of the performance metrics.

Even with his small sample that I will defend.,, Roden just might be at that bottom when the choice needs to be made. If the team doesn't want to lose Jackson who they are not utilizing currently. It is Roden or Martin who has an option available that are your choices to make room for Buxton and somebody has to go before Saturday unless there is an injury somewhere and I'm ok with that being Roden. I'm responding to the 55 AB's and the comments from others that we have seen enough of him. 

Edit... It was Jackson... Roden is still with us.  

We might have to show patience with Culpepper and we might have to show that patience while we are trying to reach the playoffs and that's OK with me because Culpepper just like Roden needs to see some 90 MPH sliders and pitchers who can paint corners and work through it on the journey to becoming what they will eventually become. 

There are people who are OK with Culpepper patience but have no Roden patience and that difference is usually influenced by draft position, rankings put together by others or articles written by others. It's subjective in the end but it leads to players like Lewis or Kepler getting a lot of rope and Kyler Fedko getting almost none.

I'm saying that we need Culpepper to develop, we need Jenkins to develop and we need Erod and Roden or Fedko to develop as well because there are 26 roster spots to fill today and there will be 26 roster spots to fill the next year and the year after that and it's the only way to break our dependance on the free agent market and the free agent market is where we can't compete. We have to utilize the 2nd tier. I'd rather we produce a 2nd tier along with that first tier because we all should know that we can't sign a superstar. The Dodgers and the Mets get those guys. Yes we need the obvious superstar developed, we haven't produced superstars lately and I'm wondering where they are. We also need to develop average players along with Jenkins so we stop spending 4 million here and 7 million here filling the holes with average players that we  would be better of producing ourselves... it's why I count minimum salary players on each roster. That 2nd teir being tossed aside is spillage and that spillage could be a part of our overall development problem. The impression that they are killing us while they work through some things or the thought they they are a detriment to trying to win baseball games while working through some things. I'm just not sure that letting them work through some things is killing us on a game to game basis right now but I am worried that the lack of patience will kill us in the future. 

As for the age thing. I get it's importance but it also goes both ways. Jenkins debuting at age 21 would be impressive but it could also mean that his best years will be spent with another club when he reaches free agency at age 27.

As for the 28 year old... getting 3 years of average is also a benefit because that replaces the one year contract of a .700 OPS guy at 7 million a pop.  

Age isn't something that concerns me... again... I understand the difference between a 21 year old and a 27 year old but my concern will always be... will they be back next year.

If they make improvements can those be improvements be utilized the following year in a Twins uniform. Our coaches will work with Josh Bell to make him better this year. Making Josh Bell better is great for right now but any improvements that he makes or anything that he fixes will be utilized next year in another uniform. I assume that we have a rather large staff of coaches and analysts who have jobs for the primary purpose of improving players and if they are doing their jobs helping to make players better, if players are putting the work in to get better and I sure hope that they are... they will make past stats irrelevant. 

Kody Clemens... His past stats in multiple small samples stretches are currently not relevant. He is 30 years old and he could be a Twin for 3 more years if we want him and as long as he is playing above average... we would want him for 3 more years. However... as a fan base if we collectively want to replace him in the next 3 years or find someone better. We won't be finding that player in free agency... we have to develop his replacement and that process starts right now.  

As far as Kriedler goes. He's been better than expected... he's another example of a player making past stats not relevant. Is he good enough to stop looking for better. No he is not good enough to stop looking for better. However in the current context of this team. We don't have the infield depth to replace him. He's necessary right now and I'm happy for him. This is his chance to carve out a career.  

All fair points and I do absolutely agree.

[HarmonK03]

On 8/13/2026 at 5:59 AM, Hawkeye Bean Counter said:

If the intention was to just drop him Cory, why didn’t they trade him at the deadline?  As stated none of those 3 play catcher.   
 

They have carried him for 5 weeks as insurance purposes I’m sure they will carry him 3 more until the expansion of rosters.  

This didn't age well.

 

[mrmpls]

On 8/12/2026 at 2:57 PM, Cory Engelhardt said:

Not here to bet, at least for that amount. But how important is a 3rd catcher that doesn't play? Especially if you have an ownership group who is stating they want to raise payroll next year?

It very well could be another player going down. I can see that. But just curious why a 3rd catcher on a roster is so important?

Its a got ya comment ,  he cant be sent down -out of options - but what happens if no-one claims him ? and the Twins resign him to st paul,  Technically-- he is right and yet you might  still think your right , dont fall for his argumentative way of posting,  well he got waived if thats the right word ? will another Team step in ??  Stay Tuned 

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

11 minutes ago, HarmonK03 said:

This didn't age well.

 

No it shows the rational for carrying during that time frame was pointless. Ultimately his production can be reproduced but will have to pay or trade for it next year.

[Hawkeye Bean Counter]

13 minutes ago, mrmpls said:

Its a got ya comment ,  he cant be sent down -out of options - but what happens if no-one claims him ? and the Twins resign him to st paul,  Technically-- he is right and yet you might  still think your right , dont fall for his argumentative way of posting,  well he got waived if thats the right word ? will another Team step in ??  Stay Tuned 

It shows I was incorrect on my rational why they were keeping him. It happens. The issue is it doesn’t make sense to me when you could have gotten value at the deadline. We will see what happens. Maybe he passes through, I doubt it for a cheap catcher that has shown flashes.

[KirbyDome89]

17 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

That's the key question. How can a team that needs to win baseball games show patience? Should they at all? If they do... how much patience is required?

And all of this needs to be done on a roller coaster because players go up and they go down. 

Managers hold meetings with staff and go over lineups for optimizing the order, the shifts just to give their team the best chance to win and the manager on the other side is doing the same thing. If the manager doesn't win... he'll be fired... if the GM doesn't win... the GM will be fired. It's pressure that you can't be casual about. 

I get it.

However... there is one very important point. It's takes time to stabilize stats. The difference between Jeffers and his .878 OPS and Tristan Gray's .591 took over 240 and 188 AB's respectively and all the way into August to accumulate. 

Tristan Gray had a .500 Slug during his first 48 AB's this year. Ryan Jeffers had a .290 Slug over his first 34 AB's. Then he went for 3 for 3 against the Blue Jays and his slug was suddenly .441 and then a couple games later he went 3 for 3 against the Red Sox and his slug was suddenly .512. From April 5 to April 13 over 17 AB's... Jeffers OPS rose from .571 to .952. 

55 AB's is nothing and his last 3 AB's. He went 3 for 3 and those 3 AB's took his OPS from .490 to .610. Let him increase his sample. A little hot streak will change the numbers and opinions fast but many have already lost patience. 

Back to the most important point. It takes time to accumulate statistical differences and they happen on a roller coaster. But... If you do the math... how much of a difference is it in an individual AB or individual game. I don't believe that Roden or Kriedler in a lineup kills us in an individual game. Byron Buxton has probably accumulated 400 O'fers during the course of his career. 

I don't disagree that we don't know exactly what a guy like Roden is, but the Twins did this to themselves. 

Eh, you could say the same thing about Joey Gallo a few years ago. It took him months to reach a full crash out statistically, but you can't tell me 6 weeks into that 3-4 month slide that he wasn't actively hurting the team. I don't think the Twins have the luxury of being patient while trying to chase down a playoff spot. 

The Buxton comp feels a little reductionist. It's not remotely the same gamble. 

[Riverbrian]

1 hour ago, KirbyDome89 said:

I don't disagree that we don't know exactly what a guy like Roden is, but the Twins did this to themselves. 

Eh, you could say the same thing about Joey Gallo a few years ago. It took him months to reach a full crash out statistically, but you can't tell me 6 weeks into that 3-4 month slide that he wasn't actively hurting the team. I don't think the Twins have the luxury of being patient while trying to chase down a playoff spot. 

The Buxton comp feels a little reductionist. It's not remotely the same gamble. 

I agree that the Twins did this to themselves but it's OK because the more players you send through the filter... the better the odds of finding some that become something... But that system doesn't work if you are not prepared to send more players through the filter. Having excess of outfielders is a blessing and a curse. It's simply a curse if there is too many to evaluate and just causes spillage without results.

Joey Gallo is a great example of my concerns. They spent 10 million on the guy and then gave him 10 million dollars worth of opportunity. Essentially doubling down on the mistake costing not only money but also costing opportunity for others while they waited for Gallo to be the player they thought they were signing.

Now... I didn't like the Gallo signing when it was made however by Late April 2023 I was singing his praises. He was superb but then the crash happened. By May... it was a noticeable problem. He wasn't even close to major league quality. He had a stretch where he struck out 17 times over 24 at bats. I reached a point where I was calling for his immediately dismissal mainly because it looked like he was swinging with his eyes closed but also because he won't be back next year. 

Gallo gets chance after chance and a Roden for example gets 55 AB's and no matter what his low OPS currently is telling everyone. He has only struck out at 13% clip. He's nowhere near Gallo who struck out 17 out of 24 times. They were wrong about Gallo and if they were wrong about Gallo... they can be wrong about Roden or whoever we plug into the discussion. Players ultimately have to let you know through performance. 

The Buxton comp... It's absolutely goofy because Buxton is the only guy on the roster that I think deserves every day playing time... but the point still stands. The statistical differences that we illustrate take time to accumulate... in any given game the differences are marginal and any player can go hitless for the game. If Roden gets 1 Single in a game while Buxton goes nil. It doesn't mean Roden is the better player but for that game he was.

Roden is one of 9 players in a lineup. One player out of 9 doesn't kill the team.