Twins 4, Blue Jays 3: Ryan Hurt But Bullpen Holds On To Split Series

[mikelink45]

11 hours ago, DJL44 said:

Kody Clemens has an OPS+ of 80. His career OPS+ is 81.

Lewis has an OPS+ of 65 

[mikelink45]

What can they do with Lewis?  He does not seem to have anything close to his initial swagger and without a personal believe he cannot climb out of this hole.  A utility man seems to have his 3B position right now and he has earned it.

[jmlease1]

8 hours ago, LastOnePicked said:

Not trading Lopez, Ryan and Buxton in the offseason will haunt this team for years to come. We'll never know exactly what was missed, but the lost prospect potential in trade returns is likely going to leave significant gaps in the seasons ahead. Gaps that will never be filled through free agency.

If the only way for this team to somehow succeed is for them to always trade away their best players and never let a great player like Buxton be a 1-team player and a Twins legend, then what are we doing? I do not regret keeping Buxton, I'm glad he doesn't want to be traded, and I'm glad he's here to be a reason to watch Twins baseball.

Hells bells, we're not even paying him that much. Considering how often prospects bust, we probably wouldn't have gotten enough value to make it worth it.

Sucks to lose Ryan. Hope it's not serious. Love watching him pitch.

[JD-TWINS]

HOPING last 2 days are a sign that Luke K. is headed in the right direction……..two really well hit doubles Sunday! Deserves credit.

Wallner had a high point for the last month over the weekend with RBI double & a single in one game ……. he’s not going anywhere as ALL 3 potential replacements from AAA are down with injuries. Roden - Jenkins - Rodriguez

So, Rodriguez has been nothing if not injury prone…………. he SLID into 1B and messed up his thumb. Not very bright!……..not the injury part, happens playing aggressive baseball, but you can’t be sliding head first into 1B!

[JD-TWINS]

13 hours ago, Jacksson said:

Today's game resulted in not only a SAVE for Topa, but also earned him a "You Almost Pissed This Game Away" Award.  Topa cannot and should not be used in high leverage situations.  A review of the pitches called for by the Catcher as well as the location being called for as well as the actual pitch location is definitely in order for this guy by bothe the Pitching Coach and Bullpen Coach.  Topa came in with a 4-1 lead the bases empty and all he had to do was to get 3 outs.  His first batter made an out to 2B on a liner.  He then gives up a single on the first pitch, low in the zone and down the middle on a sinker.  After missing with a sweeper up and in to batter #3, Topa tries another sweeper, low and down the middle which the Jays' power threat deposits 401 feet away for a 2 run homer, just to keep the day interesting.  With just 1 out, then Topa gives up 2 successive singles putting runners on 1st & 2nd in a 4-3, now game.  If not for a nice inning ending Double Play on a hard hit ball just to the right side of 2B, with good effort by both Keaschall and Lee (as much as Lee's D is maligned, this was timed and executed perfectly).  If not for the DP, the game might well have ended up tied.

Other Game Notes:  9 Twins Strikeouts = Martin -2,  Lewis - 2, by going 1-3 Clemens has raised his BA to over the Mendoza Line at .205, Lewis dropped his BA to .176, while Wallner RAISED his BA to .175, Outman didn't get an opportunity to bat and continues to sport an unworldly .129 BA.  Rogers used 32 pitches to get through 2.1 innings due to giving up 4 hits, plunking a batter and pitching through 3 strikeouts, FIVE times hitters failed to deliver with RISP.

Seen after the game:  Outman's DFA still on the desk, Lewis' Option to AAA still on the desk, Wallner's Option to AAA still on the desk, Caratini Option filed away for the moment, the Who can we dump Bell on paper is still on the desktop.  Order for Monday, extensive workout with ALL Batters on situational hitting, hitting in the clutch, strikezone awareness, identifying pitches and predicting pitching patterns will be held. 

As you state, Team is giving position guys a long leash with lack of consistent performance………… right or wrong. Not a lot of choice.

Looked at Banda’s stats as I was thinking about the PEN blowup on Saturday.

’24 - 48 appearances and 3.08 ERA

’25 - 71 appearances and 3.18 ERA

he walks nearly 4 guys per 9 (problem) and strikes out 8.75 guys per 9 (pretty solid)

He gave up 0 runs & 1 hit (3 innings) in 4 previous appearances prior to Saturday. Probably need to extend his leash as well for at least the month of May. Relievers are going to suck/disappoint probably 1 out of every 5/6 appearances…….at least the norm for guys of his stature, IMO.

[Mike Sixel]

2 hours ago, jmlease1 said:

If the only way for this team to somehow succeed is for them to always trade away their best players and never let a great player like Buxton be a 1-team player and a Twins legend, then what are we doing? I do not regret keeping Buxton, I'm glad he doesn't want to be traded, and I'm glad he's here to be a reason to watch Twins baseball.

Hells bells, we're not even paying him that much. Considering how often prospects bust, we probably wouldn't have gotten enough value to make it worth it.

Sucks to lose Ryan. Hope it's not serious. Love watching him pitch.

It's not always..... But this team, as the owner was willing to spend, was never going to be good. In context, trading those guys was the right move for the future. When The present is lost, you need to look to the future. IMO.

[Mike Sixel]

I understand the frustration, but you need to keep playing Keaschell, unless you believe a reset is the fix. He's part of the future, or he's not. But playing some old guy isn't the answer, not this year, not with how they constructed this team. 

[Riverbrian]

2 hours ago, jmlease1 said:

If the only way for this team to somehow succeed is for them to always trade away their best players and never let a great player like Buxton be a 1-team player and a Twins legend, then what are we doing? I do not regret keeping Buxton, I'm glad he doesn't want to be traded, and I'm glad he's here to be a reason to watch Twins baseball.

Hells bells, we're not even paying him that much. Considering how often prospects bust, we probably wouldn't have gotten enough value to make it worth it.

Sucks to lose Ryan. Hope it's not serious. Love watching him pitch.

Regardless of the state of the franchise and I am for youth as the direction they need to go. 

I would still keep Buxton. 

Buxton should be a Twin for life. Number retired at the conclusion of his career whenever that might be and a statue in the plaza with arm and hand in the air doing the Buck Truck. 

[jmlease1]

43 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

It's not always..... But this team, as the owner was willing to spend, was never going to be good. In context, trading those guys was the right move for the future. When The present is lost, you need to look to the future. IMO.

I understand that, but you have to make exceptions for certain players, because that's also part of building your fan base. Having those players that are "your guys" matters, especially when they're like Buxton who doesn't want to go anywhere. (I also think that you make a rebuild higher risk and likely longer when you empty out all of your quality veterans at the same time, but YMMV on that one)

despite the current injury I would have preferred to be able to extend Ryan rather than look at him as a trade asset, but I understand the other side of it...and with the stripping of the bullpen assets for more starting pitching it's something that's also not as devastating as it would have been in other circumstances. This isn't 10 years ago when we were desperately signing veteran starters in their 30's and hoping they had one more season in them (or could bounce back after an injury, etc) not just to fill out a 5-man rotation, but hoping one of those guys might be a #3.

The success of the rotation makes the current struggles of the bullpen quite frustrating...especially because it probably wasn't necessary.

[JD-TWINS]

46 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

Regardless of the state of the franchise and I am for youth as the direction they need to go. 

I would still keep Buxton. 

Buxton should be a Twin for life. Number retired at the conclusion of his career whenever that might be and a statue in the plaza with arm and hand in the air doing the Buck Truck. 

I agree…….. Less, at this point, with the sentimentality but rather because he helps Team to learn and brings an heir of professionalism to the Clubhouse. Also, trading the best player sends a poor message to any of the other guys - older or younger -,about what the Team is trying to accomplish. Team can be greatly improved w/o trading best player! If others surprise with their performance or IMPROVE their current performance, Buxton is there to help be competitive if/when others show up.

[Squirrel]

1 hour ago, Riverbrian said:

Regardless of the state of the franchise and I am for youth as the direction they need to go. 

I would still keep Buxton. 

Buxton should be a Twin for life. Number retired at the conclusion of his career whenever that might be and a statue in the plaza with arm and hand in the air doing the Buck Truck. 

Despite his words in the past, he’s here, that’s it, Buxton has made more recent comments of potentially agreeing to a trade if this team wasn’t serious about contending. We all might want to keep him, he may want to stay. But without the commitment from ownership, I don’t know anyone who wants to stay when they have opportunities to win elsewhere. People talk about extending players … Ryan is gone, so trade him. Every SP on this team is gone at their earliest if ownership cannot make commitments to field a good team around them. Honestly, if I could, I’d keep the SP, Buxton, spend money on a 3 good BP arms and one good bat (à la Nelson Cruz), then bring up the youngsters for the rest. But, ownership is committed to bumbling meager spending. We aren’t going to see a winning team again as long as they are in charge.

[Riverbrian]

42 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

Despite his words in the past, he’s here, that’s it, Buxton has made more recent comments of potentially agreeing to a trade if this team wasn’t serious about contending. We all might want to keep him, he may want to stay. But without the commitment from ownership, I don’t know anyone who wants to stay when they have opportunities to win elsewhere. People talk about extending players … Ryan is gone, so trade him. Every SP on this team is gone at their earliest if ownership cannot make commitments to field a good team around them. Honestly, if I could, I’d keep the SP, Buxton, spend money on a 3 good BP arms and one good bat (à la Nelson Cruz), then bring up the youngsters for the rest. But, ownership is committed to bumbling meager spending. We aren’t going to see a winning team again as long as they are in charge.

I won't argue any of your thoughts. 

I'm just working under the theory based on decades of being a Twins fan. 

We have a budget and it's less than we'd like and the franchise needs to operate accordingly.

We got payroll up to 160 million and it wasn't enough. Even if a new owner comes in and brings it up to 200 million ( I don't believe that will happen) it won't be enough and it will only be temporary. 

In regards to what is in the heart of Byron Buxton. I don't know and I'm not sure I trust interpretations of what is out there. 

I can only speak from what is in my heart. If I was Byron... This far along. I'd like to stay with one club if possible and this is possible. 

If Byron wants to cash that history with one team in for a chance to win. Our return for him despite his incredible talent most likely won't be what we think it will be. If I was Byron.... I'm not giving up that full no trade clause without a renegotiation. That full no trade clause is future money in his pocket and you don't cough that up. 

The Mets or Phillies would have to renegotiate and that will take his current team friendly contract to not so friendly and the value of what we get back will go down accordingly. 

I think it's best that we keep Byron and build as quickly as possible around him. I'm not afraid of youth around him... I'm afraid of lack of talent around him. 

[mikelink45]

I read all of the posts and agree with keeping Buxton. But having him lead us to success is still questionable if we don't put more players around him. Baseball's one of those strange games or one player doesn't make a difference the way it does and the NBA. Just look at Mike trout. 

[amjgt]

1 hour ago, jmlease1 said:

I understand that, but you have to make exceptions for certain players, because that's also part of building your fan base. Having those players that are "your guys" matters, especially when they're like Buxton who doesn't want to go anywhere. (I also think that you make a rebuild higher risk and likely longer when you empty out all of your quality veterans at the same time, but YMMV on that one)

 

This reminds me of a conversation I had with my daughter at the game yesterday. She loved Bader and was sad when he was traded. I told her all the reasons why trading Bader made sense, but in the end she didn't really care. She missed having her favorite player on the team.

So now she's talking about getting a new jersey. She'd mostly outgrown the one she has, which was a generic (unnamed) city connect jersey. So then we are talking about WHO she should get. She wanted to get a Bader one last year, but since I knew he was almost certainly only here for a year, I said no. You'd ideally get one for a player who's going to be around for a while.

I have a Buxton one, so she didn't want that. She didn't really want a pitcher because she wants to be able to know they will probably be playing if we go to a game.

Her: Jeffers? How long does he have left in his contract
Me: This is his last year. He's been really good but it seems unlikely that he'll be back. Once our good players hit free agency, usually they're gone.

Her: Moose? How long does he have left. I love his nickname.
Me: 3 years left, but he's been really bad this year. I hate to say it but I'm not sure how much longer he's going to be around.

Her: Larnach?
Me: Last year with him. Don't get me started.

Her: Royce?
Me: Similar to Wallner

Her: Keaschall? 
Me: He's probably the right one. He's got a lot of years left and he's kind of stinking right now, but I think that will probably turn around.

So, we went with Keashcall. He then proceeded to rip 2 doubles in his next two AB, so that was nice. 

All of this is to say... I agree. Long term connections matter. Fanbases are built off not only connection to the team, but connections to players. Trading away your good players toward the end of their arbitration might make baseball front office sense, but that doesn't mean it makes franchise sense. Both of those things need to coexist. 

[tony&rodney]

11 minutes ago, amjgt said:

Fanbases are built off not only connection to the team, but connections to players. Trading away your good players toward the end of their arbitration might make baseball front office sense, but that doesn't mean it makes franchise sense. Both of those things need to coexist. 

Agree with this take. The tricky thing is to identify what players are going to be capable of a MLB career. Are there players who fans love who can be traded for talent which makes the traded player replaceable in the hearts and minds of fans? Think Arraez for Lopez. To me Byron Buxton is a guy to keep despite missing so many games through the years. Buxton doesn't return star statistics on a full time basis but his electricity is real. I never felt Lewis or Julien or Miranda or Wallner or Larnach were that type of player. Luke Keaschall gets a pass for a few months but it does look more and more like a position change is needed, maybe to DH. I do think that trading Lopez and Ryan may have returned a player or two apiece worth the risk of another lost connection. We are currently in the process of watching to see if Mick Abel (and later on-2 years?) can replace Jhoan Duran and it seems like Taj Bradley is capable of replacing Griffin Jax. Tricky thing to maintain connections but keep a team relevant.

[MGX]

17 hours ago, karcherd said:

Clemens had one good three week stretch last year and he might be in the middle of another.  But there is no way he should be anymore than the 12th or 13th man on the roster and not being the regular first baseman.

I'm not saying Clemens should be more than a utility player, in fact I think that's a good role for him. To say he had one good three week stretch is inaccurate. Clemens OPS by month in 2025...

March/April - .348

May - .985

June - .625

July - .805

August - .536

September - .770

I guess you could say he's streaky, but that's true of most hitters. The best player on the Twins is Buxton & he is certainly a streaky hitter. 

[amjgt]

One thing to add to the Jersey topic. I know this is total recency bias, but I was a little bit tempted this weekend to buy an Austin Martin game worn (or maybe it was “team issued”) one from the Twins authentic apparel place down the RF line. It was actually kind of a reasonable deal. 
If I’m there in the near future, he’s still doing well, and the jersey is still available, I think I might buy it. 

[Vanimal46]

6 hours ago, amjgt said:

Her: Royce?
Me: Similar to Wallner

As a proud owner of a TD provided Royce Lewis autographed baseball... I am biased to hope he has a great Twins career. Otherwise, I guess he joins the ironic collection of signed stuff like my Matt LeCroy signed picture.

[amjgt]

1 minute ago, Vanimal46 said:

As a proud owner of a TD provided Royce Lewis autographed baseball... I am biased to hope he has a great Twins career. Otherwise, I guess he joins the ironic collection of signed stuff like my Matt LeCroy signed picture.

I have more hope in Royce at this point than Wallner, but a) not much more, and b) he actually only has two more years of team control after this, as opposed to Wallner’s 3 years

[amjgt]

I was a huge Wallner apologist but honestly ABS ruined my view of him. It’s not that he’s made dumb challenges, it’s that the challenge system has shown us that he has no idea where the strike zone is. That’s bad.