da BEARS v VIKES 11/16/25

[Aggies7]

1 minute ago, Vanimal46 said:

Oh I'm pretty certain he stinks.

 

He didn’t look good. Thought he threw a tying td pass but the guy couldn’t bring it in

[Mike Sixel]

Good thing we didn't take Nix..... Who isn't great, maybe?, but he's good enough to win playoff games..

[Aggies7]

Mccarthy’s QBR is 25.8

😐

[Mike Sixel]

2 minutes ago, Aggies7 said:

Mccarthy’s QBR is 25.8

😐

If he plays a bit worse, he might be older than his rating!

[Parfigliano]

43 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

You're getting your answer how Sanders could possibly be worse than Gabriel today. He stinks

Anybody surprised the media created "star" stinks? 

I'm not.

[TheLeviathan]

This one isn't on KOC.  He ran more, schemed well, had the offense in a position to make big plays.

In the ol' pie chart there needs to be about 70% on McCarthy.  He was that bad.

[Parfigliano]

McCarthy looked/played bad.  What worries me is I see little improvement from week to week.  

[RpR]

32 minutes ago, Parfigliano said:

McCarthy looked/played bad.  What worries me is I see little improvement from week to week.  

He reminds me of Bobby Douglas, bullet passes that are hard to catch.

If he run as hard as Douglas did, just short of 1,000 yards in a 14 game season, he can make-up for his passing skills.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Welp, this is what I signed up for. The growing pains.

Improvement can look like a light switch. Suddenly it's just 'on'. Like that last drive today. However, given everything, I don't expect something like consistency from McCarthy until the offseason and next year. You can look at a lot of QBs who struggled in a big way in their first season. Stafford, Brees, the Mannings, etc

Edited November 17, 2025 by Hosken Bombo Disco
removed the snark

[Aggies7]

39 minutes ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

Welp, this is what I signed up for. The growing pains.

Improvement can look like a light switch. Suddenly it's just 'on'. Like that last drive today. However, given everything, I don't expect something like consistency from McCarthy until the offseason and next year. You can look at a lot of QBs who struggled in a big way in their first season. Stafford, Brees, the Mannings, etc

And the problems are mechanical, that won’t be fixed in season.

[Vanimal46]

If the next 7 games goes how I think it will, then we are going to have some really difficult conversations heading into the offseason. The first question I have if I’m Mark Wilf is what did they see in McCarthy to feel confident in handing him the keys to the offense? Because we are 5 games into his tenure, and we’re talking about basic mechanical flaws in his passes. 

If I’m the Wilfs I’m asking why did I just spend the most money in the league on this roster when the QB was so flawed from the start? 

[Mike Sixel]

2 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

If the next 7 games goes how I think it will, then we are going to have some really difficult conversations heading into the offseason. The first question I have if I’m Mark Wilf is what did they see in McCarthy to feel confident in handing him the keys to the offense? Because we are 5 games into his tenure, and we’re talking about basic mechanical flaws in his passes. 

If I’m the Wilfs I’m asking why did I just spend the most money in the league on this roster when the QB was so flawed from the start? 

That last question in the one I've been asking all year. Why build this expensive, win now team around McCarthy?

[Aggies7]

38 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

That last question in the one I've been asking all year. Why build this expensive, win now team around McCarthy?

That issue is secondary though. If you have a marginally talented, super young guy with no experience, you sort of have to invest in free agents to help him out. Plenty of young QBs have been thrown onto bad rosters and are never heard from again.

The big thing is that they gambled that McCarthy would be the guy. It was sink or swim with him. KAM and whoever else makes these decisions gambled their careers on him working out.

And frankly, the odds of drafting and developing a college QB and having him work out are fairly low. In the entirety of the world, there are maybe 15 quarterbacks who can win at the NFL level and also stay healthy. It was a big time gamble that looks very shaky at the moment. I would be interested in knowing how many passes McCarthy threw in 2024? Did he show something in practices that made the front office think he could play at this level? Otherwise that’s one heck of a gamble to take…

[Mike Sixel]

9 minutes ago, Aggies7 said:

That issue is secondary though. If you have a marginally talented, super young guy with no experience, you sort of have to invest in free agents to help him out. Plenty of young QBs have been thrown onto bad rosters and are never heard from again.

The big thing is that they gambled that McCarthy would be the guy. It was sink or swim with him. KAM and whoever else makes these decisions gambled their careers on him working out.

And frankly, the odds of drafting and developing a college QB and having him work out are fairly low. In the entirety of the world, there are maybe 15 quarterbacks who can win at the NFL level and also stay healthy. It was a big time gamble that looks very shaky at the moment. I would be interested in knowing how many passes McCarthy threw in 2024? Did he show something in practices that made the front office think he could play at this level? Otherwise that’s one heck of a gamble to take…

Sure, but those are different questions. And not the one I was asking. 

I never liked the pick. I don't know if I will next year or not. But we'll find out in like nine or ten months. 

[Vanimal46]

6 minutes ago, Aggies7 said:

That issue is secondary though. If you have a marginally talented, super young guy with no experience, you sort of have to invest in free agents to help him out. Plenty of young QBs have been thrown onto bad rosters and are never heard from again.

The big thing is that they gambled that McCarthy would be the guy. It was sink or swim with him. KAM and whoever else makes these decisions gambled their careers on him working out.

And frankly, the odds of drafting and developing a college QB and having him work out are fairly low. In the entirety of the world, there are maybe 15 quarterbacks who can win at the NFL level and also stay healthy. It was a big time gamble that looks very shaky at the moment. I would be interested in knowing how many passes McCarthy threw in 2024? Did he show something in practices that made the front office think he could play at this level? Otherwise that’s one heck of a gamble to take…

Your last paragraph is what I want to know. I’m not even remotely qualified to be a QB coach and I can see from my living room that McCarthy has clear mechanical flaws throwing the ball. How is it possible for an NFL HC to not see that?

Do we have a Tim Tebow on our hands? Meaning a guy who looks great in practice but during a live NFL game he crumbles under the bright lights?

If there isn’t a fracture between KOC and Kwesi there will be after the season with all of the finger pointing they’re going to do. This gamble literally torpedoed the season… If we had just league average QB play we would be 7-3 right now at a minimum. 

[Aggies7]

Also it should be noted that the Vikings have something like ten draft picks for 2026 coming up. If McCarthy shows little improvement, I’ve got to believe someone else is going to be making those picks. That could be the first step in rebuilding this mess.

[Aggies7]

1 minute ago, Vanimal46 said:

Your last paragraph is what I want to know. I’m not even remotely qualified to be a QB coach and I can see from my living room that McCarthy has clear mechanical flaws throwing the ball. How is it possible for an NFL HC to not see that?

Do we have a Tim Tebow on our hands? Meaning a guy who looks great in practice but during a live NFL game he crumbles under the bright lights?

If there isn’t a fracture between KOC and Kwesi there will be after the season with all of the finger pointing they’re going to do. This gamble literally torpedoed the season… If we had just league average QB play we would be 7-3 right now at a minimum. 

Yeah, nobody sees the players more than the FO and team personnel. His injury last year was really crucial. Imagine if he had been able to get some snaps in game. Or at least had more practice reps. Maybe there just wasn’t enough info to go all in on him. But making decisions based on hope is very risky.

[gunnarthor]

6 minutes ago, Aggies7 said:

That issue is secondary though. If you have a marginally talented, super young guy with no experience, you sort of have to invest in free agents to help him out. Plenty of young QBs have been thrown onto bad rosters and are never heard from again.

The big thing is that they gambled that McCarthy would be the guy. It was sink or swim with him. KAM and whoever else makes these decisions gambled their careers on him working out.

And frankly, the odds of drafting and developing a college QB and having him work out are fairly low. In the entirety of the world, there are maybe 15 quarterbacks who can win at the NFL level and also stay healthy. It was a big time gamble that looks very shaky at the moment. I would be interested in knowing how many passes McCarthy threw in 2024? Did he show something in practices that made the front office think he could play at this level? Otherwise that’s one heck of a gamble to take…

I think this is generally right. McCarthy had some real positives - young, played in a pro-style offense, albeit a run-heavy one, was coached by Harbaugh, passes all the intangible tests. The big criticism on him at the draft was that he didn't have a strong arm. Turns out, that's not true, he has a very strong arm. But he's mostly only throwing one speed - hard. Really hard.

I'm always optimistic but for the most part this isn't a Anthony Richardson inaccuracy issue. While he did miss on a few badly, mostly he needs to get touch on his passes. We're also in SSS. He's 22 and it's been 5 games. He hasn't even thrown 200 passes yet. 

[gunnarthor]

4 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

If there isn’t a fracture between KOC and Kwesi there will be after the season with all of the finger pointing they’re going to do. This gamble literally torpedoed the season… If we had just league average QB play we would be 7-3 right now at a minimum. 

You've suggested locker room problems before and now this. I have no idea why you think this would happen. KAM and KOC seem to be on the same page on everything. KAM isn't forcing a QB on him that he doesn't want. He's not picking McCarthy b/c he worked with Harbaugh in SF. The team made the pick. I'm sure they all knew there were risks - especially after he missed a season. But you're suggesting a level of disfunction that we haven't seen here until the end of the Zimmer/Spielman regime, with no evidence to support it. 

[gunnarthor]

57 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

That last question in the one I've been asking all year. Why build this expensive, win now team around McCarthy?

Because they've seen the importance of cost-controlled QBs and the ability to shape the roster elsewhere. We went all in on Cousins and it didn't work. This lets the team bring in vets.

[Vanimal46]

Just now, gunnarthor said:

You've suggested locker room problems before and now this. I have no idea why you think this would happen. KAM and KOC seem to be on the same page on everything. KAM isn't forcing a QB on him that he doesn't want. He's not picking McCarthy b/c he worked with Harbaugh in SF. The team made the pick. I'm sure they all knew there were risks - especially after he missed a season. But you're suggesting a level of disfunction that we haven't seen here until the end of the Zimmer/Spielman regime, with no evidence to support it. 

I’m not just inventing this out of thin air. Alec Lewis wrote about the growing tension in the locker room on the Athletic. The beat reporters in the locker room have talked about the tone in the locker room changing this season. 

[RpR]

59 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

That last question in the one I've been asking all year. Why build this expensive, win now team around McCarthy?

The ghost of Tavaris Jackson....

[Vanimal46]

Credit where credit is due since I’ve been pretty critical of Dallas Turner. Yesterday was his best game as a pro by far. 

[gunnarthor]

On reddit, someone posted the Vikings offensive PFF grades from the Bears loss. McCarthy didn't make the bottom 5, which surprised me. PFF is putting more blame on his receivers than I think is right - I think if it hits the receivers' hands and then incomplete, they rule it a drop, but I'm not sure. But they put 5 drops on the receivers and said McCarthy's adjusted completion percent was 70%. Take that for whatever you think it's worth. I don't love PFF and I think McCarthy should be bottom five. Addison and Hockinson both had some big drops but that happens all the time. Right now, the offense can't keep a drive going if a receiver drops a ball or we have a pre-snap penalty. Good QBs can overcome that. Right now, McCarthy can't. Hopefully he will, and soon.

But a positive from PFF is that McCarthy got the ball out fast - his average time to throw was under 2.7 seconds. So that shows (arguably) that he is reading defenses better and making the right reads. Now he just needs to complete the passes. 

[Mike Sixel]

34 minutes ago, gunnarthor said:

Because they've seen the importance of cost-controlled QBs and the ability to shape the roster elsewhere. We went all in on Cousins and it didn't work. This lets the team bring in vets.

Next year was the year to do that, though.....unless people thought JJ was going to be ready this year. Now? Now they are over the cap and need to make tough choices. 

[Aggies7]

18 minutes ago, gunnarthor said:

On reddit, someone posted the Vikings offensive PFF grades from the Bears loss. McCarthy didn't make the bottom 5, which surprised me. PFF is putting more blame on his receivers than I think is right - I think if it hits the receivers' hands and then incomplete, they rule it a drop, but I'm not sure. But they put 5 drops on the receivers and said McCarthy's adjusted completion percent was 70%. Take that for whatever you think it's worth. I don't love PFF and I think McCarthy should be bottom five. Addison and Hockinson both had some big drops but that happens all the time. Right now, the offense can't keep a drive going if a receiver drops a ball or we have a pre-snap penalty. Good QBs can overcome that. Right now, McCarthy can't. Hopefully he will, and soon.

But a positive from PFF is that McCarthy got the ball out fast - his average time to throw was under 2.7 seconds. So that shows (arguably) that he is reading defenses better and making the right reads. Now he just needs to complete the passes. 

Probably his best throw of the day was a drop. 

I wonder if the uptick in drops from our best guys has anything to do with his inaccuracies. In other words, are the receivers out of rhythm because they never know where the ball is going to end up? So even when they do get a good pass thrown to them, their catching mechanics are out of sync?

[Danchat]

53 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

Your last paragraph is what I want to know. I’m not even remotely qualified to be a QB coach and I can see from my living room that McCarthy has clear mechanical flaws throwing the ball. How is it possible for an NFL HC to not see that?

Do we have a Tim Tebow on our hands? Meaning a guy who looks great in practice but during a live NFL game he crumbles under the bright lights?

Yeah, that's what I struggle with understanding... JJM had a fairly decent training camp and does fine in practices - KOC said this past Thursday and Friday he had his best practices of the season. And yeah, that could be a load of crock just for the sake of building confidence, but I don't think he's missing that many passes in practice or else KOC is a fool for having him throw the ball downfield so much. And if it's a "bright lights" / mental problem, well, that's surprising given his college career. Where was his stage fright when he lead a game-winning drive against the best defense in college football in the national championship? We saw that version of him at the end of the game, inexplicably.

Give him the rest of the season and see what happens, but if he shows no improvement then you can't start him next year. I expected ups and down, I didn't think he would look like the worst QB in the league and be so off-target.

53 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

If we had just league average QB play we would be 7-3 right now at a minimum. 

This roster still does have a ton of problems at multiple positions, a lot of regressing players / overpaid ones that aren't contributing. Flores has the defense playing well but I think it's more the scheme than the players, they aren't generating turnovers and every position group has somebody who is severely underperforming.

But yeah, they would be winning more games with decent QB play. Don't think they'd be winning anything in the playoffs (again), a lot of people had said bringing back Darnold was the right move but I've watched his last two games, the dude has had 7 turnovers and still melts down when pressured. We aren't going on a playoff run with him.

Drafting and developing a QB in the 1st round is still the primary way to find a franchise QB, even if it is very difficult to do. Unfortunately, they might have picked the wrong prospect, though it wouldn't be that shocking for a horrifically bad drafting front office to do. But if KOC is the QB whisperer the media purports him to be, it's on him to fix him. He waited out multiple drafts to take a QB and landed on JJM, it's on him to get him fixed.

[Mike Sixel]

I figured he's play like a rookie, be around the 20th best QB or so.....he's not even close to that so far. 

I do think you are 100% committed to him next year also. for better or worse. Will JJ ask for a trade, though, if this is the QB play he gets? 

[Vanimal46]

9 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

I figured he's play like a rookie, be around the 20th best QB or so.....he's not even close to that so far. 

I do think you are 100% committed to him next year also. for better or worse. Will JJ ask for a trade, though, if this is the QB play he gets? 

My leash with him is the next 7 games… If he still looks this bad on the field, that  is probably enough to justify cutting bait after 1 year a la Anthony Richardson and Josh Rosen. 

[gunnarthor]

33 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Next year was the year to do that, though.....unless people thought JJ was going to be ready this year. Now? Now they are over the cap and need to make tough choices. 

This article talks about how the cap problem for next year isn't really a problem. For all the worry about KAM remember that he was hired because he was a cap guru. 

https://zonecoverage.com/2025/minnesota-vikings-news/dont-panic-but-the-vikings-are-over-the-salary-cap-for-2026/