Best fix for Shortstop?

[howieramone1406390264]

I hear there's a kid in Japan having a pretty decent year - I think his name is Nishikoa or something like that.

I think we still owe him some money from last time.

[Oxtung]

Given the Twins' track record over the past 25 years, the best long-term fix for shortstop is for the Twins to start petitioning MLB to eliminate the position of shortstop.

 

Time to start thinking outside of the box.

 

How about this for outside the box. The Twins could sign Cano, assuming he doesn't sign an extension, or Josh Johnson, assuming he comes back to form in the second half of the season. They could very heavily front load the contract. So, just spitballing here, if the contract is 7 years $120M, the Twins have enough payroll flexibility to pay $50-80M that very first season. So during the 2014-15 offseason, hopefully just when Rosario or Polanco or May or Meyer are ready to take over at 2nd base/Pitcher, Sano/Johnson is now essentially signed for 6 years and $60 million. That is one heck of a trade chip if you ask me. How much is a cheap star player signed long term worth in prospects?

[howieramone1406390264]

We have a better chance with the petition.

[drjim]

How about this for outside the box. The Twins could sign Cano, assuming he doesn't sign an extension, or Josh Johnson, assuming he comes back to form in the second half of the season. They could very heavily front load the contract. So, just spitballing here, if the contract is 7 years $120M, the Twins have enough payroll flexibility to pay $50-80M that very first season. So during the 2014-15 offseason, hopefully just when Rosario or Polanco or May or Meyer are ready to take over at 2nd base/Pitcher, Sano/Johnson is now essentially signed for 6 years and $60 million. That is one heck of a trade chip if you ask me. How much is a cheap star player signed long term worth in prospects?

 

7/120 isn't getting Cano. Add a couple of years and double the money.

 

Johnson could be interesting, but I would sign him to keep him.

[Oxtung]

7/120 isn't getting Cano. Add a couple of years and double the money.

 

Johnson could be interesting, but I would sign him to keep him.

 

What he signs for was not the point. Figure whatever amount you feel necessary then apply the frontloading to that contract. It is going to look pretty good a year or two down the line.

[drjim]

What he signs for was not the point. Figure whatever amount you feel necessary then apply the frontloading to that contract. It is going to look pretty good a year or two down the line.

 

So you would expect the Twins to go something like $35-40 mil a year for the next 3-4 years on Cano with the thought that you might be able to trade him at that point because the contract will be cheaper?

[Oxtung]

So you would expect the Twins to go something like $35-40 mil a year for the next 3-4 years on Cano with the thought that you might be able to trade him at that point because the contract will be cheaper?

 

I'm not going to be drawn into an argument with you, going around and around about the details of one potential signing. The front loading concept is the important point.

[Zyax]

Not entirely relevant, but ESPN's "Market Central" page lists the Twins only positional Strengths as Catcher and.... Shortstop. Still scratching my head.

[Riverbrian]

Not entirely relevant, but ESPN's "Market Central" page lists the Twins only positional Strengths as Catcher and.... Shortstop. Still scratching my head.

 

Seriously... That had to be a mistake... Those would be the primary weaknesses.

[Riverbrian]

I'm not going to be drawn into an argument with you, going around and around about the details of one potential signing. The front loading concept is the important point.

 

No argument is necessary!!! Reasonable discussion is certainly possible.

 

I'm intrigued at least.

[drjim]

I'm not going to be drawn into an argument with you, going around and around about the details of one potential signing. The front loading concept is the important point.

 

I'm in favor of the concept in theory, but there is a reason it doesn't happen in practice.

[Oxtung]

I'm in favor of the concept in theory, but there is a reason it doesn't happen in practice.

 

Sure, but not the reason you were alluding to. First you need a copious amount of payroll space which is pretty rare. Second, you have to be a bad team looking to move the player. Third, teams looking to take on big payrolls are those looking to win now that have no payroll flexibility in the present so they end up back loading contracts playing for today and letting the chips fall where they may in the future. Fourth, millionaires and billionaires are a conservative lot by nature and front loading a contract is risky. There are probably others I haven't thought of but these are off the top of my head.

[Oxtung]

Not entirely relevant, but ESPN's "Market Central" page lists the Twins only positional Strengths as Catcher and.... Shortstop. Still scratching my head.

 

They are simply going by WAR provided at the position. It shouldn't be surprising that catcher is a strength and Florimon's defensive abilities rank him in the top 10 for WAR this season at SS.

[ScottyB]

Coming into the season, I wasn't a fan of Florimon, but he has done better than I expected. Let's learn from history. Everything is a knee-jerk reaction. If we had some patience, we'd still have Hardy - a gold glove shortstop with power. Florimon has basically played a half season. Could we please let a guy play a couple seasons and see if he improves instead of throwing someone away after 90 or 100 games. I think Florimon will one day be a guy who can hit .260 with some speed (fine for someone in the 9 hole) and be a consistent fielder. Let's let this play out before abandoning him after a short audition.

[diehardtwinsfan]

Coming into the season, I wasn't a fan of Florimon, but he has done better than I expected. Let's learn from history. Everything is a knee-jerk reaction. If we had some patience, we'd still have Hardy - a gold glove shortstop with power. Florimon has basically played a half season. Could we please let a guy play a couple seasons and see if he improves instead of throwing someone away after 90 or 100 games. I think Florimon will one day be a guy who can hit .260 with some speed (fine for someone in the 9 hole) and be a consistent fielder. Let's let this play out before abandoning him after a short audition.

 

Florimon has been a pleasant surprise, but he's not a future foundation guy (as of now). I tend to agree that waiver wire trash is not going to provide any sort of significant upgrade over him now, though I do think the Twins should be targeting something of value at that position for their current trades.

[johnnydakota]

So a guy who is hitting near Nishi level is a pleasent surprise?

Me thinks we need to be targeting a couple of shortstops in this

Internatiol signing season,and if we are to trade perkins ,

We need to get either a near ready front of the rotation starting pitching

or a near ready shortstop.

[ashbury]

So a guy who is hitting near Nishi level is a pleasent surprise?

 

I think you are minimizing how awful Nishi was at bat. Nobody keeps a job at the hitting level he demonstrated. Guys occasionally carve out utility infielder careers for a few years at the Florimonster's level. And then we could compare these two guys' defense...

[johnnydakota]

I think you are minimizing how awful Nishi was at bat. Nobody keeps a job at the hitting level he demonstrated. Guys occasionally carve out utility infielder careers for a few years at the Florimonster's level. And then we could compare these two guys' defense...

 

It was a shot at 2 regimes in charge of the Twins ,

1 Bill who watched tapes with his senor adviser and assistant gm and made a bid on a player they never saw in person .

 

2. On the current regime who did nothing to fix the gapping hole which is the middle infield

[Kwak]

Platoon at SS, Florimon (the primary) vs LHP and Escobar/alternate RHH (option #2) vs LHP.

[ashbury]

senor adviser

 

Tony Oliva?

 

In any case, shots don't add to the discussion of the "best fix for Shortstop".

[johnnydakota]

Isint A. Diaz now a Mexican citizen , and elidgible to be signed as a International free agent?

With the Twins out of the Gonzales derby(40 to 60 million) How about making SS a priority

on July 2nd?

[AlwaysinModeration]

I think you are minimizing how awful Nishi was at bat. Nobody keeps a job at the hitting level he demonstrated. Guys occasionally carve out utility infielder careers for a few years at the Florimonster's level. And then we could compare these two guys' defense...

 

Aaron Hicks doesn't want you to forget about him!

[Guest USAFChief]

Platoon at SS, Florimon (the primary) vs LHP and Escobar/alternate RHH (option #2) vs LHP.

That's gonna leave a big hole on the left side of the infield against RH pitching.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Aaron Hicks doesn't want you to forget about him!

 

Nishioka makes Aaron Hicks look Ruthian by comparison.

[AlwaysinModeration]

As for the question at hand, I would love to see the Twins trade for a SS (from the Rangers, although I would think Profar is impossible), or target a couple of Venezuelan SS July 2.

 

Man, that Hardy mistake is haunting the Twins organization for years.

[TheLeviathan]

I'm not going to be drawn into an argument with you, going around and around about the details of one potential signing. The front loading concept is the important point.

 

Front loading doesn't really happen in baseball. I'd argue because there is heavy union/peer pressure not to because those deals are seen as favoring ownership.

 

It's a concept I think we all could get behind, but it's so non-existent that positing it even in a hypothetical doesn't seem realistic.

[diehardtwinsfan]

So a guy who is hitting near Nishi level is a pleasent surprise?

Me thinks we need to be targeting a couple of shortstops in this

Internatiol signing season,and if we are to trade perkins ,

We need to get either a near ready front of the rotation starting pitching

or a near ready shortstop.

 

No one will disagree with you about targeting SS in international signings. That said, those kids are 16 and won't be up for a minimum of 5 years.

[Thrylos]

In 2015, we may likely have Rosario and Sano forcing playing time. I think that depends on the emergence of Parmelee, but given his approach at the plate, I think consistent PT will eventually coax out a fairly decent hitter.

 

3B - Sano

SS - Plouffe

2B - Rosario

1B - Parmelee.

 

That would be a defensive infield that would make the 2012-3 Detroit Tigers proud.

[Brock Beauchamp]

That would be a defensive infield that would make the 2012-3 Detroit Tigers proud.

 

Hey, Parmelee looks pretty adept in the field.

 

But other than that, yeah. That infield would be brutal. Rosario has a chance to be decent but Christ, Plouffe can barely man third. Let's not move him back to short.

[lecroy24fan]

60 posts and no one has mentioned moving Mauer to SS?????