The Darnold Decision

[Mike Sixel]

2 hours ago, Danchat said:

He's playing like a top 10 QB, but is he actually one? I think the environment around him has been a major factor in his success and I would be absolutely fine rolling with JJ and a high end backup like Daniel Jones, and in case JJ has injury problems they can elevate Jones' abilities like Darnold did.

If Sam wants to come back on a team-friendly deal I'd be open to it, but if he wants to be paid like a top 10 QB then he is free to get his bag on the market and see how he does in a lesser environment. We need a new interior OL, at least 2 CBs, and an interior pass rushers and we won't be finding most of that in the draft.

Ultimately, I will trust in what O'Connell and the front office decide on. And what happens in the playoffs.

I think you are underestimating the QB here. Either way, if you deal a player playing as one of the best QBs, you have guts. They are going to tag him, unless something happens. And either trade him to Vegas, or keep him. 

[nicksaviking]

On 12/23/2024 at 8:19 PM, Mike Sixel said:

I think you are underestimating the QB here. Either way, if you deal a player playing as one of the best QBs, you have guts. They are going to tag him, unless something happens. And either trade him to Vegas, or keep him. 

Whether they trade or keep him, (I heavily lean keep at this point) I still like tagging him to keep the long term options open. It's just really hard to make the longer term commitment being a fan of this club, as few sports cities have seen the one-year-of-excellence-then-disappointment like we've seen.

I guess I'll say, if you can get him for 30M, go ahead and do a deal. But I'd guess it will be way higher than that. If it's higher, just tag him for 40M and don't think twice; I'd rather not put all my eggs in the basket if it's a decision over a few million.

However, I'm quite confident that for any of his in-game faults, I do have pretty solid confidence that O'Connell knows a great QB when he sees one. If they do give him an extension, I'd at least be optimistic that they know more than our skeptical sports history has ingrained in us.

[DocBauer]

On 12/23/2024 at 9:10 AM, TheLeviathan said:

Apologize for this DocBauer-like post....So this game really forces the conversation IMO.  Let's lay it out:

* Vikings currently have about 75M in cap room in 2025.  If they francise Darnold that will eat up 40M of it right off the bat.  

* They will need to make decisions on Bynum and Murphy.  They will need a running back.  They likely lose Patrick Jones and most of their DT rotation is a FA.  They also need a guard and probably a center.

* They have no picks basically other than the first rounder.

So....long story short.  I have no freaking idea what they should do.  It feels like - and I am cringing and giving myself a mild heart attack typing this - that they should try and lock Darnold in at a good rate and trade McCarthy?  Would the Rams give you pick 23 and a 3rd for him?  Maybe Pittsburgh do the same thing?  Aim higher and offer him to San Fran?

If you sign Darnold to a 4 year 120M deal (probably too low, but just go with it) you retain plenty of salary cap space to keep building around him.  Darnold likely is open to something like that as it's life changing money in a place that has changed his career.  You can go out and throw an obscene amount of money at DJ Reed to play CB.  Or Trey Smith to play guard.  (Hell...you might be able to do both)

Draft the best DT available at your picks.  Find the best RB you can with the mid tier picks.  

But so much of that hinges on what you can get for McCarthy.  So after all that, I feel good about none of what I said.

OMG! Levi, why didn't you tag me so I could have seen this before now? I don't know if I should be insulted or complimented! But I did a LMAO when I read your opening line!

Am I now a reference point? Is there such a thing now as a "docbauer" post? I LOVE IT! LOL!

I've been too caught up in work, life, Huskers, (yes, I'm one of those), and the Twins BS to spend much time here lately, but the Darnold situation is a very interesting one. I'm also conflicted.

Despite a poor to mediocre career to this point, let's not forget Darnold is only 27yo, 28 next season, and was a top 3 selection for a reason. Not his fault...as well as others before him...that he was on bad teams and thrust in to a starting job early for a bad team/franchise. He got a "re-set" in SF last season to actually work with a good staff/team. Less we all forget, it used to be your young QB got a good year to sit, learn, and adapt. Even some great QB the past couple of decades...as $ changed the game and expectations...didn't exactly set the world on fire as rookies.

I'm as pleasantly surprised as anyone by what Darnold has done. I was very much "who? what?" when signed. But the arm talent has always been there. Again, that's why he was a #3 pick. When I watch him, I see a solid athlete, and a smart one, and he's mentally tougher than I expected considering what he's been through. The arm talent is obvious. I mean, that throw to beat Seattle was MONEY!

Frankly, I think he's better than Cousins, and I don't think he's a 1 shot wonder either. 

But let's rewind for a moment.

I'm not a fan of Jim Harbaugh. I'll leave it at that. But he's proven himself over and again as a good head coach. And before the draft last season he stated McCarthy was the best QB in the draft. That resonated with me. As talented athletically as Darnold is, McCarthy is more so. As young as Darnold is, McCarthy is 6 years younger. And the Vikings didn't draft McCarthy because they hoped he'd be the future. They believed he was. The Vikings have a lot of offensive talent...though they need ONE better interior OL to really make the line great and not just good...and a good system, a QB coach on the rise, and one of the best young head coaches in the league.

Are the Vikings as**oles if they franchise Darnold and then trade him? Is that even allowed? IDK.

My point is the huge amount of $ flexibility they have pending 2025 allows them to keep the talent on hand, make a couple key FA signings, hopefully grab a couple solid players with what little draft capital they have, maybe hold some $ in reserve, and TRUST in O'Connell, his staff, system, and the playmakers on offense to move forward with the talented McCarthy at QB.

That's HUGE for the next few years! And it's what was intended when Darnold was signed, and McCarthy was drafted.

I like Darnold. I've become a fan. And I can see reasons to keep him. But the long range plans of O'Connell and Kwesi was a 1 year rental for the future. Were I a betting man, I'd still say that's the plan for now.

IF they really and truly think Darnold is THE GUY for another 5 years or so, then they HAVE to TRY to recoup trade value for McCarthy to replace some of the talent they won't be able to sign or keep in FA with a more limited budget.

I don't have the answer. I'm not sure either road is necessarily a bad one to take. But again, were I a betting man, the Vikes will put their trust in McCarthy and THE SYSTEM in place, and make adds and move forward, and play the long game.

How's that for a "docbauer" opinion? 😁

 

[Vanimal46]

Today sealed the deal for me. Extend Darnold and figure out what to do with McCarthy in a year or 2 

[Mike Sixel]

4 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

Today sealed the deal for me. Extend Darnold and figure out what to do with McCarthy in a year or 2 

Agreed

[Aggies7]

Sam is the first quarterback in the history of the NFL to win 14 games in his first year with a team 

[gunnarthor]

This was fun. His humor isn't for everyone but Viking fans will probably enjoy this.

[Mike Sixel]

I'm out, unless they win two playoff games.

[Aggies7]

This all went from gold to 💩 in one week. Not because of the loss. It’s really hard to see a guy look frightened. I really didn’t expect that. Thought it wouldn’t be an issue considering his career trajectory. You just can’t be scared and have it affect your play. Not in this league where things are literally decided by inches 

[Vanimal46]

Does tonight’s performance wash out his previous 6 weeks of great play? Maybe? Now I gotta see him in the playoffs to make a decision. 

[Aggies7]

4 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

Does tonight’s performance wash out his previous 6 weeks of great play? Maybe? Now I gotta see him in the playoffs to make a decision. 

Yeah next week could be a redemption week against a weaker opponent. But regardless…even with a win, you’re going to Detroit or Philly. Unless the unimaginable happens and both GB and Washington win. They they’d have a home game.

[Mike Sixel]

13 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

Does tonight’s performance wash out his previous 6 weeks of great play? Maybe? Now I gotta see him in the playoffs to make a decision. 

It reminded me that the team has holes on in the entire IOL. That they have no CBs that have played a game under contract after this year I think and that if Darnold isn't great, all those bad drafts are hard to overcome with lots of cash to spend.

[Mike Sixel]

5 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

It reminded me that the team has holes on in the entire IOL. That they have no CBs that have played a game under contract after this year I think and that if Darnold isn't great, all those bad drafts are hard to overcome with lots of cash to spend.

So. Many. Autocorrect . and Typos. Sigh. 

Hard to overcome without cash to spend....

[Aggies7]

17 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

So. Many. Autocorrect . and Typos. Sigh. 

Hard to overcome without cash to spend....

I guess the good news is that he became a whole lot cheaper tonight. 

I’m just stunned by what happened tonight. the inaccuracy from last week’s big game was noted, but he ended up making some key throws and overcoming that interception he threw. I really didn’t think Sam would melt like this. Now what? Does he come back and have another great regular season….but the entire time we all are thinking he will wilt in the playoffs? That kind of stuff becomes sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy. 

[nicksaviking]

9 hours ago, Vanimal46 said:

Does tonight’s performance wash out his previous 6 weeks of great play? Maybe? Now I gotta see him in the playoffs to make a decision. 

Yeah, fans everywhere would call us crazy for having this one game be a factor in the decision, but they don't understand Minnesota sports. Every sport, every league and every big game, choking is what our players do. Darnold could throw for 5000 yards and 50 TDs, but if he is going to freeze when it matters most, that's a deal breaker.

[gunnarthor]

Nothing changed. He finished the season #5 in yards and TD, #6 in rating. We're going to tag him.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Imagine. Guys were carrying Darnold on their shoulders a week ago with fake champagne spraying everywhere. 

There is still time to re-write the end of this story.

[RpR]

13 hours ago, Aggies7 said:

Yeah next week could be a redemption week against a weaker opponent. But regardless…even with a win, you’re going to Detroit or Philly. Unless the unimaginable happens and both GB and Washington win. They they’d have a home game.

Maybe the head coach will have learned his game plan was a pile of feces and try some thing different.

[TheLeviathan]

I'm on tag and trade.  I think, after waffling a bit, that's where I'm firmly at.  Darnold holds the ball too long.  I'd rather have the cap room and a fresh QB with no warts from past mistakes.

[nicksaviking]

14 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

I'm on tag and trade.  I think, after waffling a bit, that's where I'm firmly at.  Darnold holds the ball too long.  I'd rather have the cap room and a fresh QB with no warts from past mistakes.

I've been a skeptic all year. We as Vikings fans are very familiar with the short-term renaissance QB phenomena.

Still, while I absolutely tag him, I'm still TBD about trading him. At least right away. 

[TheLeviathan]

1 minute ago, nicksaviking said:

I've been a skeptic all year. We as Vikings fans are very familiar with the short-term renaissance QB phenomena.

Still, while I absolutely tag him, I'm still TBD about trading him. At least right away. 

Depends on return.  I'd take a high 2nd and a little something extra and call it a day.  It's a good return on 10M and a prayer.

[gunnarthor]

7 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

I've been a skeptic all year. We as Vikings fans are very familiar with the short-term renaissance QB phenomena.

Still, while I absolutely tag him, I'm still TBD about trading him. At least right away. 

There are so many possibilities right now so it doesn't really matter. If Schefer (sp) is right and some team in the top 10 offers us their pick plus more for McCarthy, the team has to reconsider everything. If Darnold looks great in the playoffs, the team has to reconsider everything. 

My guess is that the Vikings will bring him back, hold onto McCarthy (and showcase him during the preseason) and reevaluate after next season. If, with another year of games with the system, Darnold gets better, they may try to keep him long term. 

[RpR]

2 hours ago, TheLeviathan said:

I'm on tag and trade.

LOL - WOW, am I surprised. 🤩

[Aggies7]

Well he’s going to get at least one shot to restore everyone’s faith. I still want him back. I was just struck yesterday at how young JJMc is when they showed him on the broadcast. He looks like a child 😂

[Mike Sixel]

This thread can be locked, much like Sam's future, it's obvious it's not good.

[Aggies7]

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

This thread can be locked, much like Sam's future, it's obvious it's not good.

This thread is full of me loving darnold. I wanted him to succeed and really thought he was the real deal. For once I wasn’t the curmudgeonly pessimist I am so infamous for being. All to be paid back like this 😂

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

2 minutes ago, Aggies7 said:

For once I wasn’t the curmudgeonly pessimist

This’ll teach you lol 

[Aggies7]

6 minutes ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

This’ll teach you lol 

See that, mods! I tried it your way and look how it went! 😂

[Mike Sixel]

18 minutes ago, Aggies7 said:

This thread is full of me loving darnold. I wanted him to succeed and really thought he was the real deal. For once I wasn’t the curmudgeonly pessimist I am so infamous for being. All to be paid back like this 😂

Same

[nicksaviking]

8 hours ago, Aggies7 said:

This thread is full of me loving darnold. I wanted him to succeed and really thought he was the real deal. For once I wasn’t the curmudgeonly pessimist I am so infamous for being. All to be paid back like this 😂

As expected. You're a Vikings fan after all.