Vikings @ Jaguars 11/10

[Vanimal46]

3 minutes ago, Aggies7 said:

PUT THE GAME AWAY PLEASE 

KOC says hold my beer 

[Aggies7]

Terrible punt smh

[Aggies7]

I’m gonna be so mad if we lose but boy oh boy do we deserve it 

[Aggies7]

Now they call a facemask 😂😂😂😂

[Aggies7]

Thank god Mac jones is horrendous 

[Aggies7]

Ugh now we have to run some plays

[Aggies7]

What a great win guys

🤮

[Vanimal46]

I need a shower to wash the stench of that terrible game off me. 

[TheLeviathan]

Ugly win.  Hideous QB play has to get fixed.

[Aggies7]

Just now, Vanimal46 said:

I need a shower to wash the stench of that terrible game off me. 

Jacksonville is all time terrible. Still, they probably win had Lawrence played

[Mike Sixel]

Zero stats for Turner. I think I fire all the college scouts or GM at this point. Just awful drafts. 

[Vanimal46]

Why can’t the Vikings just be a normal team for once?

[Cap'n Piranha]

I tried to warn y'all after the Rams game--there are some real issues with this team, and as excited as we all were after the 5-0 start, the team that has shown up for the last 5.5 games gets eviscerated in the playoffs against any semi-decent team.  Last 11 halves--8 TDs (after 13 TDs in the first 7 halves).  96 offensive points in the last 11 halves--17 points/game.  That's one third of the season now playing like a bottom quartile offense; even on the full season, the Vikings are now down to 14th in offensive PPG.

Darnold is absolutely what killed the offense yesterday--all the hopeful vibes from last week's second half are gone.  And for anyone who wants to use Darnold as an excuse to cover for KOC, keep in mind that the Vikings could have kept Kirk--they chose not to.  The plan at QB this year, in a year they were planning to compete, is Sam Darnold and a rookie who threw the ball less than any non service academy QB in the NCAA.  Not a great plan, as it turns out.

[Cap'n Piranha]

On 11/10/2024 at 1:47 PM, Mike Sixel said:

Zero stats for Turner. I think I fire all the college scouts or GM at this point. Just awful drafts. 

Said it before, I'll say it again.  When your first draft is as bad as Kwesi's first draft was, you can't keep him around for a third draft unless his second draft was truly great.  Kwesi has proven he cannot draft well and we should stop letting him continue to prove it.  Barring a big-time turn around, and conspicuous contributions from drafted players, Kwesi has to be either demoted, or more likely fired, at season's end.

[sampleSizeOfOne]

On 11/10/2024 at 12:46 PM, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

This should be a two-score win, minimum.

2 Safeties count?

[gunnarthor]

4 hours ago, Cap'n Piranha said:

I tried to warn y'all after the Rams game--there are some real issues with this team, and as excited as we all were after the 5-0 start, the team that has shown up for the last 5.5 games gets eviscerated in the playoffs against any semi-decent team.  Last 11 halves--8 TDs (after 13 TDs in the first 7 halves).  96 offensive points in the last 11 halves--17 points/game.  That's one third of the season now playing like a bottom quartile offense; even on the full season, the Vikings are now down to 14th in offensive PPG.

Darnold is absolutely what killed the offense yesterday--all the hopeful vibes from last week's second half are gone.  And for anyone who wants to use Darnold as an excuse to cover for KOC, keep in mind that the Vikings could have kept Kirk--they chose not to.  The plan at QB this year, in a year they were planning to compete, is Sam Darnold and a rookie who threw the ball less than any non service academy QB in the NCAA.  Not a great plan, as it turns out.

You had this team DOA before the season even started and now you're predicting a playoff loss. Way to move the goalposts. And now you're complaining that we didn't keep Kirk. I think you've demonstrated pretty effectively that you really don't know what you're talking about.

And, really, don't bother with the "I only call it likes I see it" or "I'm sorry if my truth upsets folks" follow up posts, we've already read them.

[nicksaviking]

14 hours ago, Cap'n Piranha said:

Darnold is absolutely what killed the offense yesterday--all the hopeful vibes from last week's second half are gone.  And for anyone who wants to use Darnold as an excuse to cover for KOC, keep in mind that the Vikings could have kept Kirk--they chose not to.  The plan at QB this year, in a year they were planning to compete, is Sam Darnold and a rookie who threw the ball less than any non service academy QB in the NCAA.  Not a great plan, as it turns out.

You continue to think that KOC does Adofo-Mensah's job. This hang-up is getting really weird. I'll guess to cover this gaffe you'll claim the KOC is the one who is ACTUALLY making the decisions.

And I still don't want Kirk Cousins. He never was the path to a Super Bowl and he's clearly the same good-not-great QB that he always has been. Ask Atlanta fans after he once again threw short of the sticks with zero chance at a 1st down with the game on the line.

[Cap'n Piranha]

13 hours ago, gunnarthor said:

You had this team DOA before the season even started and now you're predicting a playoff loss. Way to move the goalposts. And now you're complaining that we didn't keep Kirk. I think you've demonstrated pretty effectively that you really don't know what you're talking about.

And, really, don't bother with the "I only call it likes I see it" or "I'm sorry if my truth upsets folks" follow up posts, we've already read them.

No goalpost moving man--I was clearly wrong about how bad this team would be, since I thought they would win 6 or 7; they're already there.  What I'm talking about now is concerns about the offense (which I can't help but notice you didn't respond to, which suggests you have no arguments disputing that), and how the poor performing offense limits this team's ability to win a playoff game, let alone compete for a Superbowl.  That's actually 100% consistent with what I said in the offseason--I didn't think the offense would produce enough to offset any defensive improvements.  You should stop using analogies if you don't understand what they mean.

I've demonstrated with stat after stat after stat that right now the Vikings offense is not good.  You've demonstrated with your hurt feelings, inability to understand analogies, and statistical illiteracy that you're not capable of any level of analysis.  That's why you downvote pretty much every one of my posts, and yet almost never respond to them.  When you do, you don't actually address any point I've made, but spout random accusations about me, rather than what I've said.  So let me issue a challenge to you--just once, respond to what's actually in one of my posts without resorting to broad dismissals of me as a poster.

[Cap'n Piranha]

4 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

You continue to think that KOC does Adofo-Mensah's job. This hang-up is getting really weird. I'll guess to cover this gaffe you'll claim the KOC is the one who is ACTUALLY making the decisions.

And I still don't want Kirk Cousins. He never was the path to a Super Bowl and he's clearly the same good-not-great QB that he always has been. Ask Atlanta fans after he once again threw short of the sticks with zero chance at a 1st down with the game on the line.

I'm well aware of the different responsibilities of a GM and HC (who also runs the offense).  But if you honestly think that KOC doesn't have immense input in roster management, especially on the offensive side of the ball, then it's actually you who doesn't understand how NFL rosters are built.  Do you really think that if KOC was adamant he wanted Kirk at QB, Kwesi would have still refused to keep him here, especially since cap space is not an issue?  The fact that Kirk isn't here strongly suggests that KOC was not that interested in keeping Kirk around, and was completely fine with having Darnold and an unpolished rookie as his QBs.  On the other hand, if Kwesi is completely ignoring KOC's input on personnel, then we have a huge issue, and one of the two needs to be fired yesterday.

I'm not saying I want Kirk either--I'm saying Kirk is a better QB than Darnold or McCarthy, and would give this team a better chance to win in the playoffs.  While I don't think that's a clear shot at a Superbowl, no one in their right mind thought that Darnold/McCarthy gave the team a better shot than Cousins.  And given that reality, why are the Vikings acting like this is the year to push chips to the middle with FA contracts and pillaging future picks?

[TheLeviathan]

For those that care and don't want to get dragged into one person's inability to have fair conversation:

The Vikings have not "pushed all their chips in" with contracts.  They have the 5th most cap room in the NFL for 2025 and the only notable FAs they have to sign are Murphy, Bynum, Aaron Jones, and Gilmore.    They will have ample room to add to the roster by free agency next year.

The Vikings have traded most of their 2-7th picks.  Which are, statistically, far less likely to return starting players.  If the team's strategy is to continue to make first round picks or trade for established players, the odds are in their favor on that strategy.  (They do, however, have to hit on those picks they trade for which is TBD at this point 9 games in) 

I believe the team quite smartly determined that they could supplement their roster next year with the money freed up from moving on from Cousins and others and utilized their picks to make splashier selections in what they view as a better draft.  That really depends on JJ and Turner panning out and netting a good offseason of FAs next year.  So, TBD on that strategy - I like the thinking though.

Right now the results are hard to argue with.  No matter what struggles they are going through, the team is vastly overperforming expectations.  One would think that if a team vastly overperforms that those in charge of leading it would get some credit and not constant derision......

[nicksaviking]

5 hours ago, TheLeviathan said:

For those that care and don't want to get dragged into one person's inability to have fair conversation:

The Vikings have not "pushed all their chips in" with contracts.  They have the 5th most cap room in the NFL for 2025 and the only notable FAs they have to sign are Murphy, Bynum, Aaron Jones, and Gilmore.    They will have ample room to add to the roster by free agency next year.

The Vikings have traded most of their 2-7th picks.  Which are, statistically, far less likely to return starting players.  If the team's strategy is to continue to make first round picks or trade for established players, the odds are in their favor on that strategy.  (They do, however, have to hit on those picks they trade for which is TBD at this point 9 games in) 

I believe the team quite smartly determined that they could supplement their roster next year with the money freed up from moving on from Cousins and others and utilized their picks to make splashier selections in what they view as a better draft.  That really depends on JJ and Turner panning out and netting a good offseason of FAs next year.  So, TBD on that strategy - I like the thinking though.

Right now the results are hard to argue with.  No matter what struggles they are going through, the team is vastly overperforming expectations.  One would think that if a team vastly overperforms that those in charge of leading it would get some credit and not constant derision......

I really do like that they finally got off of the balance beam straddling between cap space hell and keeping their top veterans.

However, it does appear they are now on a balance beam straddling between rostering their top veterans and building a long-term squad.

I'm not throwing in the towel by any means, and it's definitely a better and more flexible beam, but I'm also not sure how they get down from this one without draft picks. And obviously without using their draft picks more wisely. Ten key free agents a season just doesn't seem sustainable.

[TheLeviathan]

20 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

I really do like that they finally got off of the balance beam straddling between cap space hell and keeping their top veterans.

However, it does appear they are now on a balance beam straddling between rostering their top veterans and building a long-term squad.

I'm not throwing in the towel by any means, and it's definitely a better and more flexible beam, but I'm also not sure how they get down from this one without draft picks. And obviously without using their draft picks more wisely. Ten key free agents a season just doesn't seem sustainable.

Agreed, but it's important to remember that the guys they are signing are not that old.  Tillery is 28, Greenard 27, Gink 29, Murphy was 25, Griffin 29, Oliver 26, Darnold 27.

These aren't 34 year olds, you can count on these guys for awhile.  Obviously, I agree you can't always dump your picks and you can't blow them on bad players, but this is a team that was in a TERRIBLE spot when this FO took over and they've got them at 7-2 with real cornerstones for the forseeable future.  And that's despite a really awful first draft.

Having a good coach and good assistants who can scheme and elevate players can cover a lot of roster gaps.