Twins 2, Orioles 7: Stick a Fork in Them

[Beast]

14 hours ago, cmoss84 said:

Was thinking the exact same thing. 

If they fire everyone, does that get fans off of their back and buy them time to not spend money?

It shouldn’t, but it probably will here.  Getting any sort of real criticism/tough questions out of the local media isn’t going to happen.  And. There’s too many fans that are content spending $300 to hang out in nice summer weather with no regard for the product.  There’s never a real consequence.

That’s the thing.  This is the absolute easiest market to run a sports franchise, and the current ownership group still can’t get out of their own way.

All it takes is throwing the fan base a meager bone once in a while.  Sign Carlos Correa at a discount when nobody else wanted him, and they have NPCs on places like this doing their best to drag anyone that dares criticize their spending policies for the next decade.

I just heard a few stats on a podcast.  This team has won 90 games twice since target field opened.  It’s managed one play-in tournament win against an equally inept franchise in the last 25 years (and we had fans celebrating like we won’t back to back World Series).  The current FO was brought in under the pretenses of building a pithing pipeline.  This team still can’t pitch a lick and they’re nearly a decade into their administration.  There’s still a subset of people that will die on the hill of this franchises proven loser of a team building strategy.

I recently saw someone defending on the basis of the strong farm system, which is mind blowing.  They just had Jenkins, a top 5 prospect fall into their lap.  What else have they done?  They didn’t want to pony up for Greene so took Lewis, who may never play a full season in his career, and frankly, is not that good (can’t play defense, can’t run, and we’ve just recently discovered, isnt a world beater at the plate either).  They’ve burned first round pick after first round pick on slugging DH types that never materialize.

Frankly, I don’t care what ownership does this offseason.  I can tell you it won’t be enough.  It never has been, and never will be.  They don’t care.  Their ultimate goal is to do just enough to con the fans.  Not an inch more.  This is 100% hopeless.  Last year was the absolute ceiling for this franchise.  And, considering the pop-up of the Royals and Tigers this year, we’re not seeing that again for a very long time.

Last thing.  Can everyone that doesn’t understand accounting quit with the “what do you want them to do, take a loss?  It’s a business.”  Do you really think they’re losing money?   Amazon has a run an operating loss every year of their existence.  How’s Jeff Bezos doing?  They’re still making out like bandits financially, so let’s quit with the nonsense that they can’t afford this or that.

This franchise needs a real, competent business man running the ship.  Someone that understands return in investment and long-term positioning.  These trust funders in place now have been led to believe that’s them.  They were born on third base and think they hit a triple.  Then, while pretending they know how to run the bases, they got picked off.

[karcherd]

1 hour ago, JD-TWINS said:

Look at the Bullpen chart above - Blewett threw 39 pitches Thursday - Tonkin threw 18 pitches on Thursday - Thielbar had already pitched in the game - Funderburk is the only guy left that hadn’t thrown the two previous days consecutively.

3 soft contact hits and he was in trouble - not pitching poorly just getting nicked to death.

They DO NOT SCORE runs………. the Managerial decisions to use pitchers that are available aren’t the problem - strategy isn’t losing games - averaging 1-2 runs per game is a real problem………hitters need to look in the mirror!

You are correct if it is June, but it's not.  We were essentially playing a playoff game last night and Rocco gave up.  You don't keep a pitcher in after three straight batters reach, it is all hands on deck until you are eliminated.

[JD-TWINS]

32 minutes ago, karcherd said:

You are correct if it is June, but it's not.  We were essentially playing a playoff game last night and Rocco gave up.  You don't keep a pitcher in after three straight batters reach, it is all hands on deck until you are eliminated.

So, 3 straight soft contact hits are “soft contact hits”. He wasn’t pitching poorly - he didn’t get outs. That’s exactly what Maki said when he came to the mound. Even the last run they got off him was a high two hopper back to the mound  and he picked it allowing another run to score. Could have done things differently - can say that every time an opponent scores all year. Lopez was all over the place & gave up a homer early……..nobody clamoring for him to get yanked in the must win game.

Bottom line is at the end of 8 innings they had zero runs. Never, or seldom, scoring puts undue pressure on the Pen - happened nearly every day for a few weeks. 

[Swing Batter-Batter]

15 hours ago, cmoss84 said:

Was thinking the exact same thing. 

If they fire everyone, does that get fans off of their back and buy them time to not spend money?

I don't think they are going to fire anyone. If there is someone in management that has an expired contract, they might not renew it but, nobody with a contract will be fired.

[karcherd]

6 minutes ago, JD-TWINS said:

So, 3 straight soft contact hits are “soft contact hits”. He wasn’t pitching poorly - he didn’t get outs. That’s exactly what Maki said when he came to the mound. Even the last run they got off him was a high two hopper back to the mound  and he picked it allowing another run to score. Could have done things differently - can say that every time an opponent scores all year. Lopez was all over the place & gave up a homer early……..nobody clamoring for him to get yanked in the must win game.

Bottom line is at the end of 8 innings they had zero runs. Never, or seldom, scoring puts undue pressure on the Pen - happened nearly every day for a few weeks. 

Bottom line, it is an elimination game, he is not getting anyone out.  Rocco was trying to play the matchup game, you can't do that in this situation.  Being down by 7 vs 3 at the end of the inning is a huge difference.

[S Bart]

5 hours ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

Not sure where you pulled this list from. Blake Snell should be on it. A bunch of those guys will be dropping off it next year.

Funny enough, in addition to Pablo next year, Sonny Gray will also make a comet-like appearance near the top of that list in 2025, based on how his contract was structured. 

Ohtani belongs not on the starting pitcher list but on the ‘Unicorns’ list, with him as the only name on that list. 🙂

MLB's highest-paid starting pitchers for 2024 season: Ranking starters by salary - Yahoo Sports

Ohtani still is listed as a pitcher and the Dodgers have stated publicly that they may use him as such in that role. I live in the area. He wants to pitch. Don't be surprised if you see him on the mound in 2025, He has been in the bullpen throwing.

I have inputted the link....it was posted on March 13 ( Snell was traded on the 20th). Also, his base salary in SF is 15 million with a signing bonus off 17 mill payable in Jan. of 2026 based on what I viewed online. In comparison,  

 

 

[S Bart]

5 minutes ago, S Bart said:

MLB's highest-paid starting pitchers for 2024 season: Ranking starters by salary - Yahoo Sports

Ohtani still is listed as a pitcher and the Dodgers have stated publicly that they may use him as such in that role. I live in the area. He wants to pitch. Don't be surprised if you see him on the mound in 2025, He has been in the bullpen throwing.

I have inputted the link....it was posted on March 13 ( Snell was traded on the 20th). Also, his base salary in SF is 15 million with a signing bonus off 17 mill payable in Jan. of 2026 based on what I viewed online. In comparison,  

 

 

Also...this high salary issue is based on years served and not really performance...Some of the top performing pitchers are not the highest paid.

[Bruce Lysne1]

21 hours ago, Aerodeliria said:

Well-said...it was the ugliest of the ugly. The game typified the season, including an error by Farmer. The only difference was that Castro didn't play five different positions in this one, but the rest of it was more-of-the same.

My team assessment:

Starting pitching: OK

Mid-relief: Mediocre

End-relief: Decent

Fielding: Beyond atrocious

In-game decisions: Poor

Line-ups: Head-scratching

Base-running: Strange

Hitting (besides Correa): Futile

Should have been DFA'd: Margot, Farmer, Vasquez (yes, I said it), Irvin (Why must we shop from the island of misfit toys?)

Should be in the minors: Lee, Funderburk

Anyway, fire away...

 

 

I agree. This season has been a micro-cosm of this franchises problems. No guts. Guys don't play through anything that hurts. Day to day and then the IL for 2 months. Not everyone needs to play 3 times a week. Some of these lineups...wow. What gets me is they don't seem to care. Guess what, now I don't either. Fire Baldelli he can't get them to play. Could have had Lugo or even Lorenzen or Wacha cheap but no. Owners don't want to win either. Starts from the top down. I have given up hope on this team. 

[pierre75275]

11 hours ago, Aggies7 said:

Most unenjoyable twins team of my lifetime and there isn’t a close second.

Be thankful you didn't get to watch the teams in the late 90s or from 2011-2015. Those teams were unwatchable 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

48 minutes ago, pierre75275 said:

Be thankful you didn't get to watch the teams in the late 90s or from 2011-2015. Those teams were unwatchable 

That 1994 team was real hard to watch, after about August 12th 🙂

[Aerodeliria]

10 hours ago, GNess said:

I agree with your basic premise. Cleveland especially has mastered this feat of winning beyond their payroll. However, are any of the three central playoff entrants likely to advance to the World Series? Teams that spend are typically those in serious contention most consistently. (Note: Astros, Dodgers, Phillies as examples)

Maybe not, but the Twins are certainly not advancing...

[Finfineman]

Three things: 

1).  The Pohlads had a chance to get an ace and they were too cheap.  The Twins would have been in the playoff and at least two playoff games would have helped pay the salary.  These owners are about the bottom line and not about winning.  Pitting an Ace, Lopez and Ober against Houston could have gotten them to round 2 and more revenue to pay that Ace.  Again, they were too cheap.

2).  This team quit on Baldelli in September.  I think they need new blood at manager.  The Pohlads cant hide from their responsibilities as owners by hiring someone else.  But alas, they are too cheap to care.

3).  The starting pitching needs an Ace.  Period.  Go get one.  Be an ownership that looks like you have actually played sports and want to be competitive.

 

 

[Finfineman]

The Vikings are such a better Minnesota product than the Twins.  Sell the Twins to Iowa.  Get a few dairy cows and call it good.

[Finlander]

I was volunteering once again at the free soup kitchen and, as I was about to ladle a cup of beef barley to a blind person (who I understand is a recently retired MLB umpire), Jim Poor-lad cut in front of him and demanded that he wanted an extra packet of crackers for his soup. We chatted very briefly as I tried to settle him down.  But when I asked whatever became of the millions of dollars in relief money that MLB teams adversely impacted by poor TV deals (like the Twins) received, he turned around and stormed away without his crackers.

[Riverbrian]

On 9/28/2024 at 11:47 AM, ashbury said:

 The drafting part of the FO is hitting on all cylinders but their talent evaluation at the minors and majors level, both inside the organization and outside, must be being done by other individuals because I have serious questions about their acumen over the span of several seasons now.

 

Jair Camargo was up for 10 games April 13 to April 22. He was called back up to the majors on July 12 and sent back down on July 25 for a total of 8 games. He was in a major league uniform for a total of 3 more games in September for a grand total of 21 games.

7 Plate Appearances total for Jair over 21 games. 

Someone or someone's in our evaluation system felt that Camargo could not do better than the numbers produced by Christian Vazquez. Someone felt he would hurt our chances of winning games if he played rather than Vazquez. 

.221/.248/.327. were the numbers produced by Christian Vazquez. 

.243/,312/.399 is major league average for 2024.  

Meanwhile, at the very same time. 

The same evaluators or a different evaluator in the same system has determined that Jair Camargo gets and keeps a 40 man roster spot. Camargo is protected in the off-season when the 40 man decisions are hard to make and keeps the roster spot over the course of the season surviving all the 40 man additions, with the help of 60 day I.L. maneuvering. He keeps his roster spot all season. 

Evaluations are hard. The Margins are tight. 

I doubt that the Twins had Julien evaluated at .615 OPS because they cleared space and made room for him at 2B. 

I doubt that the Twins or the Mariners had Polanco evaluated at .651

They probably missed by quite a bit on those two. 

Yet... very confidently... they can evaluate that Vazquez can't yield time and that Camargo can't see the field.

Yet... can't take him off the 40 man. 

I'd also would have liked to have been a fly on the wall when the Twins and Reds were discussing the Mahle deal with their evaluations.  

Was Miranda part of the discussion? Did the Twins evaluators evaluate Miranda as untouchable but Steer not? Did the Reds evaluators determine that they wanted Steer or Strand over Miranda. Maybe Strand was the lead dog in the deal.

What Reds evaluator determined that Steer or Strand wasn't enough so Strand or Steer had to be included. What Twins evaluator agreed that Steer or Strand wasn't enough. 

Through 1,000 AB's... Steer is leading Miranda and when I say that... don't get me wrong. I like Miranda. Glad he's a Twin.