Is it Time for Twins to Move Louie Varland to the Bullpen?

[JD-TWINS]

10 hours ago, Blyleven2011 said:

Louie must like the bus rides in the minors  , he is stubborn and wants to be a starter  ....

His best season so far has been 2023 bullpen  , so if he wants to stick in the majors and have the good life  , it appears to be in the bullpen  ... 

Duffy was a converted starter and had some good years as a reliever  , it's time for Louie to focus on what will keep him in the majors  ...

Duffy and nearly every other reliever were a starter within the previous 1-4 years. Not too many guys get drafted as a reliever out of college & obviously zero out of high school.

He’s head strong - just watch him on the mound.

IMO, it’s been wise to keep him available throughout the year but now Morris seems he may be on a similar par and able to give the Team 5 innings in a pinch.

I’d add Louie & Winder (was optioned and is delayed) to the Pen ASAP!!

[BsuNemo]

2 hours ago, TopGunn#22 said:

This is a GREAT time to bring this topic up.  With the Twins bullpen in complete self-immolation mode we are 2-weeks too late to bring Varland up and put him in the pen.  He's a power arm who can be used in high leverage situations if he's throwing one or two inning stints.

How many late game leads do the Twins need to blow before this front office has the caffeine from their morning coffee kick in???  The twins went out and got a complete non factor for their bullpen at the deadline (Richards) who Rocco is rightly reticent to use in a high leverage situation.  Honestly, as far as a starting pitcher is concerned, Dobnak would probably do just as well as Varland.  But Varland COULD be a difference maker in the pen.  And to make this move NOW in no way puts Varland out of contending  for a starting rotation spot for 2025.  

DO IT !!!

He's one good off speed pitch away from being a solid #3 or a dominant closer in 2025. Right now he's a power arm that doesn't have the endurance. Let's roll varland 7th, Jax 8th Duran 9th right now! 

[DocBauer]

Got a lot to say here. SURPRISE! LOL.

1] Varland still has a CHANCE to be a good ML SP. He's OK-ish right now. Solid for 4-5 innings with a chance to be better. His offspeed stuff is probably the biggest issue. Bit it's OK to be a really good RP as well. Like Jax, why can't he work on honing his other offerings to make him a great RP instead of a mediocre SP? 

2] I'm OK if the Twins move him to the pen ASAP. I think it's where he belongs, and he can thrive there, and only get better. Again, Jax as an example. But it's OK if they keep him as a SP option for a couple more weeks until we see if someone hits a wall. For all the talent and future possibilities of the kids in the rotation, it's a very real possibility SWR, Festa, or Matthews just hit a wall or get figured out. It's OK to give Varland a couple more weeks, and see what happens, and have him in reserve for those couple of weeks.

3] I KNOW this won't be popular, but if the Twins needed ANOTHER SP option, and Varland were in the pen tomorrow, I'd honestly rather give Dobnak a shot before anyone else. He's having a good season, and past performance and by his own admission, he's never been comfortable coming out of the pen. I hope ANOTHER starter isn't needed, but I'd rather see him than anyone else at AAA for the next month, if needed, again, Varland in the rotation.

4] I might be incorrect in how the timing worked, so forgive me. But wasn't there an opportunity when Ryan went to the IL that the Twins couldn't have kept Varland up along with Festa and Matthews? I swear there was a window with injury and double header where he could have stayed. If I'm correct, he could have stayed as a pen option who could piggyback anyone if they ran in to trouble, or, to throw 2-3 innings and lengthen the pen, thus keeping himself stretched out.

Again, forgive me if I'm wrong, but am pretty sure that window was open.

I'd keep Varland at AAA, for now, as @chpettit19 stated, until mid September if possible. I think he then moves to the pen, and he should be there going forward. Again, why can't he get even better ala Jax?

I don't care if he's wild, he's got better stuff and a better future, I'd find a "tired arm" with Okert and bring Funderburk back when healthy. While wild, he has better stuff and can actually get RH batters out. IDK if what we saw of Winder is real or not, but I'd like to see if he can follow the "Sands" model and actually help. For the NOW, I'd like to see what Henriquez can do. His final line against the Padres Wednesday was skewed by a horrible play from Margot.

Here's hoping Paddack can come back and provide another high velocity arm like he did last year. But for Varland, I'm HOPING he can remain stretched out "just in case" for another couple of weeks and then make a permanent transition to the pen.

[chpettit19]

26 minutes ago, BsuNemo said:

I guess I'd say more wins are a higher probability than more losses if you put someone in that gives you a better chance to win... Which it sounds like most people think varland would be... I mean could we say that we'd have more wins if buck and c4 were healthy? Not for sure but a higher chance than we'd have more losses right? I feel the same with varland. 

As for your bullpen game scenario... Maybe you're right. Maybe we'd just be better with rolling the dice with Dobnak and see if he can get thru 3 or 4 then varland 2 or 3?

In all honesty, if we get to that point, especially if it's Ober or Lopez that goes down... We better just be in a place on offense to out score the other team. That would be a scary (in a bad way) scenario! 

Yes, better players give you better chances to win. That's not my argument. It's that what you do with Varland effects other things.

If Varland was in the pen a month ago like some people want(ed) then who's making his starts on August 9th and 14th? They went 1-1 in those games, but he gave them 6 innings in the loss with only 3 runs given up (only scored 1 run that game). If that's Dobnak or Boushley or bullpen games or whoever else are they 0-2 instead and that guy only went 3 innings in each game and the pen was blown up because of it and some of the Ws around those games flipped to Ls because the pen was shot?

You wouldn't just be replacing Okert or whoever's innings with Varland and automatically switching those to good innings. It would've effected other things. And putting him in the pen next week will effect other things. Reasonable minds can disagree on the risk reward analysis of that, but there is a reasonable reason why it hasn't been done yet, and had it been done before it would've effected other things.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

11 hours ago, Rod Carews Birthday said:

Of the things on the Twins’ to do list, this is among the least urgent unless you think that the bullpen will implode enough to cost the team a shot at the playoffs.  I don’t happen to think that and I don’t think the Twins do either.  If we’re lucky, and the rotation keeps rolling along, we will be able to do that, just not yet.

Varland can be converted into a reliever very quickly at the end of the season, IF he is no longer needed to be the backup to the starting rotation.   Once he has been converted to a relief role, moving him back takes more time than the team would have available if a starter goes down (or is completely ineffective.) Right now, much more harm can come to the team and its record without an adequate fill-in on the rotation than without another arm in the bullpen.  

 

I mean… when you put it that way… it did implode two nights in a row and catapulted KC to the second WC spot.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

1 hour ago, DocBauer said:

Got a lot to say here. SURPRISE! LOL.

1] Varland still has a CHANCE to be a good ML SP. He's OK-ish right now. Solid for 4-5 innings with a chance to be better. His offspeed stuff is probably the biggest issue. Bit it's OK to be a really good RP as well. Like Jax, why can't he work on honing his other offerings to make him a great RP instead of a mediocre SP? 

2] I'm OK if the Twins move him to the pen ASAP. I think it's where he belongs, and he can thrive there, and only get better. Again, Jax as an example. But it's OK if they keep him as a SP option for a couple more weeks until we see if someone hits a wall. For all the talent and future possibilities of the kids in the rotation, it's a very real possibility SWR, Festa, or Matthews just hit a wall or get figured out. It's OK to give Varland a couple more weeks, and see what happens, and have him in reserve for those couple of weeks.

3] I KNOW this won't be popular, but if the Twins needed ANOTHER SP option, and Varland were in the pen tomorrow, I'd honestly rather give Dobnak a shot before anyone else. He's having a good season, and past performance and by his own admission, he's never been comfortable coming out of the pen. I hope ANOTHER starter isn't needed, but I'd rather see him than anyone else at AAA for the next month, if needed, again, Varland in the rotation.

4] I might be incorrect in how the timing worked, so forgive me. But wasn't there an opportunity when Ryan went to the IL that the Twins couldn't have kept Varland up along with Festa and Matthews? I swear there was a window with injury and double header where he could have stayed. If I'm correct, he could have stayed as a pen option who could piggyback anyone if they ran in to trouble, or, to throw 2-3 innings and lengthen the pen, thus keeping himself stretched out.

Again, forgive me if I'm wrong, but am pretty sure that window was open.

I'd keep Varland at AAA, for now, as @chpettit19 stated, until mid September if possible. I think he then moves to the pen, and he should be there going forward. Again, why can't he get even better ala Jax?

I don't care if he's wild, he's got better stuff and a better future, I'd find a "tired arm" with Okert and bring Funderburk back when healthy. While wild, he has better stuff and can actually get RH batters out. IDK if what we saw of Winder is real or not, but I'd like to see if he can follow the "Sands" model and actually help. For the NOW, I'd like to see what Henriquez can do. His final line against the Padres Wednesday was skewed by a horrible play from Margot.

Here's hoping Paddack can come back and provide another high velocity arm like he did last year. But for Varland, I'm HOPING he can remain stretched out "just in case" for another couple of weeks and then make a permanent transition to the pen.

Or, they could DFA Okert (or Richards) and piggy-back Varland with Mathews and still keep Varland somewhat stretched out, while giving the BP a breather

[DocBauer]

3 minutes ago, Richie the Rally Goat said:

Or, they could DFA Okert (or Richards) and piggy-back Varland with Mathews and still keep Varland somewhat stretched out, while giving the BP a breather

Which is why I mentioned I THOUGHT there was an opportunity to just keep Varland when Ryan went on the IL.

Again, I could be wrong. 

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Just now, DocBauer said:

Which is why I mentioned I THOUGHT there was an opportunity to just keep Varland when Ryan went on the IL.

Again, I could be wrong. 

Quit being nice and just point out I’m obtuse :)

[darin617]

13 hours ago, Blyleven2011 said:

Louie must like the bus rides in the minors  , he is stubborn and wants to be a starter  ....

His best season so far has been 2023 bullpen  , so if he wants to stick in the majors and have the good life  , it appears to be in the bullpen  ... 

Duffy was a converted starter and had some good years as a reliever  , it's time for Louie to focus on what will keep him in the majors  ...

It doesn't matter what Varland wants. The Twins own his rights and if they want him to move to the pen his only choices are accepting it or retiring.  

Louie could probably be a shut down closer or 8th inning guy if he put his mind to it.

[Riverbrian]

19 hours ago, August J Gloop said:

Varland can absolutely be refined, but in a short period of time it's about pitch distribution. And in LV's case it's about refining his approach to use his 98+ fastball as much as possible in a game. and that's for about 2 innings every other day. 

I was going to say. 

He was allowing too many base runners.

Put people on base... you are bloop from a run or a blast from a crooked number. 

In April... He threw 16.2 innings. 27 hits and 9 walks. 2.16 WHIP. 

In his 4 starts since then. Two in June... Two in August. 

20 Innings - 22 hits and 2 walks. WHIP 1.20

The Varland since June I have no concerns with. 

 

 

 

[LA Vikes Fan]

On 8/22/2024 at 8:47 AM, USAFChief said:

He needs to be on the 40 man roster by Aug 31 to be eligible. Obviously he already is.

There are even exceptions to that rule for injury. 

He doesn't need to be on the 26 man.

Teams set their playoff roster from the 40 man prior to each postseason series.

https://www.mlb.com/glossary/transactions/postseason-roster-rules-eligibility

Thanks, I thought they had to be on the 26 man. That actually makes things a lot easier, especially when it comes to the last bullpen spot being a yo-yo between Winder and Henriquez. 

[spanman2]

On 8/22/2024 at 10:59 AM, Rod Carews Birthday said:

He's not refusing to be a reliever.  The team has kept him starting games to keep in line to potentially start games if they need him to do so.  I think he is probably destined to be a reliever at some point in the near future, and I'm guessing he does too.  However, at the moment, his value to the Twins is as a guy who COULD start if they need him to and can go to the pen later.  To expect none of those rookies to hit a wall or get figured out is overly optimistic. 

Many here are acting as though moving to relief is going to take months of working out of the pen.  He's done it before, knows what it takes, and can do it again.  My guess is that he needs about 2 weeks or so.  So, until September 15, leave him as a starter. 

https://www.startribune.com/louie-varland-minnesota-twins-st-paul-saints-starter-turned-reliever/600302030