Nick Gordon heading to the IL

[chpettit19]

Their voiced plan coming out of ST was to reassess Buxton in CF in mid-May. It's felt like they've been trying to back off that plan slowly, but surely, the last month. I hope they're at least discussing it. I'm not a medical professional, and know nothing about his specific health concerns, but I hope they don't talk themselves into anything close to a full season DH role for him simply because he hasn't been hurt yet.

Can he at least do a few days a week until Lewis is up? Where are they at with allowing Lewis to play CF? That seems like the bigger opening for him come May 30th than 3B at this point. 2 of their 4 best players could be great fits for CF, but they may not be willing to play either of them there. That'd be such a gigantic competitive advantage to take away.

I've supported the "Buxton as DH to start the year" plan because at this point you can't just throw him in CF everyday and expect him to be healthy all season. They had to do something to take away some of the wear and tear on his body since it clearly wears him down, and leads to an acute situation ending his season. But if you can't use him in CF at all this team looks drastically different.

[Brock Beauchamp]

58 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

Where are they at with allowing Lewis to play CF?

My understanding is that Lewis will only play IF for the time being.

[LA Vikes Fan]

I think it's very unlikely that Lewis plays in the OF. That's where he got hurt and his agent's comments that he'll be playing 3b and SS resonates with me. I would be very surprised to see Lewis in OF with any regularity at any point this season unless injuries force our hand. It's too bad he isn't available now because he would be the best call up to replace Gordon. Farmer is playing well at 3B, but he'll be playing 2B while Polanco recovers.  Farmer can then be the RH hitting UTL since he can play OF in addition to IF. What I see by June 15 is a regular IF of Kirilloff, Polanco, Correa, Lewis, with Farmer playing 2-3 days a week backing up all 4 positions, and 1-2 days a week in LF/DH. The issue then becomes is Castro is the #2 UTL and Solano gone so we can keep Kepler, Gallo and Larnach, do we trade one of those 3 (or demote Larnach) based on performance/redundancy, or do we pick offense in Solano over defense and ability to play multiple positions in Castro.  

The answer? Somebody will get hurt and that will determine who stays or goes. If not, my guess is that when everybody is healthy Castro will get sent down unless Solano stops hitting. If he does, he gets the DFA and Castro stays. Should be an interesting next 3-4 weeks on the roster.   

Question - can we take Lewis off the 60 day list and bring him up now or is he once on the 60 day, have to wait the full 60 days? 

[Brock Beauchamp]

3 minutes ago, LA VIkes Fan said:

Question - can we take Lewis off the 60 day list and bring him up now or is he once on the 60 day, have to wait the full 60 days? 

He can come off the 60-day IL and play in Minnesota on June 1, not a day before.

[stringer bell]

20 minutes ago, LA VIkes Fan said:

 Farmer can then be the RH hitting UTL since he can play OF in addition to IF. 

Farmer is versatile, but he's played outfield about as much as Mitch Garver or Joe Mauer. His positions are second, third and short and emergency catcher. I suppose in a break glass situation, he could play first or in the outfield, but he's not really an option.

[stringer bell]

21 minutes ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

He can come off the 60-day IL and play in Minnesota on June 1, not a day before.

Not really a nit pick, but the 60-man IL goes into effect on Opening Day, correct? Opening Day was March 30 and 60 days from then would be May 29. Yeah, it is only a couple of days, but if we want to look at it from what is possible, shouldn't we be saying May 29?

[FlyingFinn]

42 minutes ago, LA VIkes Fan said:

his agent's comments that he'll be playing 3b and SS

I think you are saying that the Twins have told Lewis and his agent that he will be playing 3B and SS only. I sure hope the Twins aren't limiting him to those two positions just because that's what the agent wants.

[wavedog]

I certainly think we could ramp up Buxton playing CF once a series to give Taylor a rest.  I mean is he going to DH full-time this season?   He is a great defensive CF can he not play twice a week?    With Solano on the roster I would prefer to see Julien come up especially if Polanco is dinged up.  

[chpettit19]

1 hour ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

My understanding is that Lewis will only play IF for the time being.

Last I read they said he was going to start at only SS and 3B, but they'd take a look at it as the month went on. But that was when he first started his rehab assignment so I don't know if they've said different since.

[Mike Sixel]

1 hour ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

My understanding is that Lewis will only play IF for the time being.

Ugh. Do not understand. Not with Lee and Julien around ... And Miranda. 

[Mike Sixel]

1 hour ago, LA VIkes Fan said:

I think it's very unlikely that Lewis plays in the OF. That's where he got hurt and his agent's comments that he'll be playing 3b and SS resonates with me. I would be very surprised to see Lewis in OF with any regularity at any point this season unless injuries force our hand. It's too bad he isn't available now because he would be the best call up to replace Gordon. Farmer is playing well at 3B, but he'll be playing 2B while Polanco recovers.  Farmer can then be the RH hitting UTL since he can play OF in addition to IF. What I see by June 15 is a regular IF of Kirilloff, Polanco, Correa, Lewis, with Farmer playing 2-3 days a week backing up all 4 positions, and 1-2 days a week in LF/DH. The issue then becomes is Castro is the #2 UTL and Solano gone so we can keep Kepler, Gallo and Larnach, do we trade one of those 3 (or demote Larnach) based on performance/redundancy, or do we pick offense in Solano over defense and ability to play multiple positions in Castro.  

The answer? Somebody will get hurt and that will determine who stays or goes. If not, my guess is that when everybody is healthy Castro will get sent down unless Solano stops hitting. If he does, he gets the DFA and Castro stays. Should be an interesting next 3-4 weeks on the roster.   

Question - can we take Lewis off the 60 day list and bring him up now or is he once on the 60 day, have to wait the full 60 days? 

He also got hurt on stairs..... There is zero evidence OF is more dangerous than IF....

[stringer bell]

Yes, I'd like to see Lewis back in the outfield, too. But we might have a Manny Machado situation here. Machado was ballyhooed as a shortstop when he came up to the Orioles, but the vacancy was at third base. Manny went there and except for a few fill-ins has stayed a third baseman. Royce could be the same and I think his bat would play anywhere. 

[August J Gloop]

At this point, I think Twins fans' best hope is that Lewis will be the primary 3b from May 29 / June 1 until he leaves as a free agent or retires. It's a good spot for his talents and with the work, he could be up there with Machado, Chapman and Arranado defensively. With no shifts, short will still work, as he won't have the pivot to risk that ACL. But overall as far as potential 3B options go in the system, Lewis is the best. He doesn't look well suited to the OF in general outside CF. And even there, the team would be trying to put a square peg in a octagonal hole. It would fit, but how well? 

As for Gordon's replacement, it will likely be Contreras and ultimately Kepler. Kep is gonna have to play CF to keep his streaky bat in any MLB lineup. He's of minimal value to the Twins who are replete with RF options, unless he can be an average to plus defender in CF. The team has a situation where they have too many LHH corner bats and not enough corners to put them. 

 

[Mike Sixel]

2 minutes ago, stringer bell said:

Yes, I'd like to see Lewis back in the outfield, too. But we might have a Manny Machado situation here. Machado was ballyhooed as a shortstop when he came up to the Orioles, but the vacancy was at third base. Manny went there and except for a few fill-ins has stayed a third baseman. Royce could be the same and I think his bat would play anywhere. 

Agreed. I just don't know where he, Lee and Julien play together.... especially if Buxton is a DH.... And then there's Miranda. The opening might be at third right now, but it's 100 percent in the OF going forward. 

[Mike Sixel]

1 minute ago, August J Gloop said:

At this point, I think Twins fans' best hope is that Lewis will be the primary 3b from May 29 / June 1 until he leaves as a free agent or retires. It's a good spot for his talents and with the work, he could be up there with Machado, Chapman and Arranado defensively. With no shifts, short will still work, as he won't have the pivot to risk that ACL. But overall as far as potential 3B options go in the system, Lewis is the best. He doesn't look well suited to the OF in general outside CF. And even there, the team would be trying to put a square peg in a octagonal hole. It would fit, but how well? 

As for Gordon's replacement, it will likely be Contreras and ultimately Kepler. Kep is gonna have to play CF to keep his streaky bat in any MLB lineup. He's of minimal value to the Twins who are replete with RF options, unless he can be an average to plus defender in CF. The team has a situation where they have too many LHH corner bats and not enough corners to put them. 

 

Most minor league evaluatiors have projected him in the OF since he was drafted. I'm not sure they agree he doesn't fit.

[stringer bell]

I guess I see Lewis as more of an outfielder than Lee (better speed), but their eventual big league positions just aren't set. I think either Lee or Lewis could be a long-term solution at second base, as well as third. IMHO, Julien might be able to stick at second, but is more likely to be a 1B/DH. Miranda is a 3B/1B/DH. Depending on recovering from his injury, Austin Martin looks like the player most likely to be converted to full-time outfield. Salas has struggled in the minors so far, but also looks like a player. All young players. 

The Twins are deep enough that one or two of these guys to fail to live up to their potential and still have quality talent. It is hard to be patient as things play out, but I guess it is the right move. 

[wornsmooth]

16 hours ago, CRF said:

Just read that he fractured his shin on that foul off his leg. He's going to be out a while. 

That is sad news.

I admire his tenacity. His hitting was starting to come back a bit. He hung in there while i am sure it was easy to get down on himself.

Another lousy break for him.

[LA Vikes Fan]

1 hour ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

He can come off the 60-day IL and play in Minnesota on June 1, not a day before.

Thanks, Brock. I suspected that was the answer but wanted to check. Too bad. He looks ready now but more time won't hurt. 

[LA Vikes Fan]

28 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Most minor league evaluatiors have projected him in the OF since he was drafted. I'm not sure they agree he doesn't fit.

I think the issue is the injuries and the additional leg stress from playing OF. I Suspect that the organization, player and agent are aligned in thinking that Lewis starts in the IF. Maybe he can move to the OF in subsequent years, but after tearing his ACL in CF last year, I'd really be surprised if he went back there this year. I've had ACl tears in both knees and you never come all the way back to 100% of what you were, and you get more strength and flexibility over time. I just can't see taking a guy who tore his ACL this first game he played CF after coming back from an ACL tear (if I remember right) and putting him back out in CF.  This team is ultra cautious with injuries and rehab so I can't see them taking that risk. By the way, I think keeping Lewis in the IF is the right call. 

[Mike Sixel]

8 minutes ago, wornsmooth said:

That is sad news.

I admire his tenacity. His hitting was starting to come back a bit. He hung in there while i am sure it was easy to get down on himself.

Another lousy break for him.

He was finally fully healthy last year, and was pretty good. 100% a MLB player. He was just coming around, as you say, and now this. It's hard not to feel for the young man.

[Mike Sixel]

Just now, LA VIkes Fan said:

I think the issue is the injuries and the additional leg stress from playing OF. I Suspect that the organization, player and agent are aligned in thinking that Lewis starts in the IF. Maybe he can move to the OF in subsequent years, but after tearing his ACL in CF last year, I'd really be surprised if he went back there this year. I've had ACl tears in both knees and you never come all the way back to 100% of what you were, and you get more strength and flexibility over time. I just can't see taking a guy who tore his ACL this first game he played CF after coming back from an ACL tear (if I remember right) and putting him back out in CF.  This team is ultra cautious with injuries and rehab so I can't see them taking that risk. By the way, I think keeping Lewis in the IF is the right call. 

All fair. I can't see how planting and throwing is safer, but I can't find any studies about IF vs OF injuries....though they must exist.

[LA Vikes Fan]

I couldn't find any studies either. I just think I wouldn't want to be the guy who made a decision to put him back in CF and he got hurt again.  

The key thing is to get his bat in the lineup, let him fix our "lack of a leadoff hitter" problem, and add some hitting and speed. All of this requires him to perform like last year of course...  

[chpettit19]

3 minutes ago, LA VIkes Fan said:

I couldn't find any studies either. I just think I wouldn't want to be the guy who made a decision to put him back in CF and he got hurt again.  

The key thing is to get his bat in the lineup, let him fix our "lack of a leadoff hitter" problem, and add some hitting and speed. All of this requires him to perform like last year of course...  

If they want to put the blame on me I'll be the one to make the call and put him back in CF! 😄

[Mike Sixel]

4 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

If they want to put the blame on me I'll be the one to make the call and put him back in CF! 😄

Same. I'm too old to be afraid at this point.

[chpettit19]

4 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Same. I'm too old to be afraid at this point.

You rarely see baseball players wearing knee braces. I wonder if you couldn't throw one of the offensive lineman knee braces on him for some extra support and let him go run around in that. I don't know how restrictive they are, but I feel like if NFL players can do what they do in them Royce Lewis could track down fly balls in CF with one.

[Jocko87]

50 minutes ago, stringer bell said:

Yes, I'd like to see Lewis back in the outfield, too. But we might have a Manny Machado situation here. Machado was ballyhooed as a shortstop when he came up to the Orioles, but the vacancy was at third base. Manny went there and except for a few fill-ins has stayed a third baseman. Royce could be the same and I think his bat would play anywhere. 

I like this comp.  I don't like the idea of bouncing him around.  If he was going to convert to CF make it an offseason move and stick with it.  If he can stick at third base with excellent defense he is far more valuable to the team, his agent and himself. 

One of the main reasons I don't like him moving isn't injury risk, its lack of playing time over the last several years.  His games played/age ratio is off the charts with covid and the injuries.  He's going to have lots of adjustments to make, they should minimize whats on his mind for the time being. 

Miranda moves around to accommodate Lewis, not the other way around.  1/1 draft, potential multiple time all stars slot first, especially when they are clearly better on both sides of the ball.  If we have to have this discussion vs Lee next year its a good problem to have.  Lets get Lewis established first.

[DJL44]

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

Ugh. Do not understand. Not with Lee and Julien around ... And Miranda. 

Lee isn't ready yet and Lewis is a better infielder than Julien or Miranda. They're not going to move the plus fielder to the outfield to put the minus fielder in the infield. That makes no sense.

[Mike Sixel]

1 minute ago, DJL44 said:

Lee isn't ready yet and Lewis is a better infielder than Julien or Miranda. They're not going to move the plus fielder to the outfield to put the minus fielder in the infield. That makes no sense.

Lee isn't a minus fielder, btw. Miranda is, clearly.....as is Julien. I'm talking long term, but even short term....they need a CF that can hit, not just field and run. Short and long term.....

[August J Gloop]

But the likelihood that ACL tear Lewis is a plus defender in CF now is low. Maybe in a year. 

[stringer bell]

Just to summarize, I see Gordon's injury as a certain two-month absence and perhaps a season-ender. If I am way off, I would hope someone corrects me. It would make sense to put Nick on the 60-day list when Lewis comes off, but they might do it immediately if they want to promote someone not on the current 40-man roster. 

Going forward with the rest of the season, Royce Lewis would then have a place to call his own--third base. Certainly, Jose Miranda could get flaming hot and force his way back in the lineup, but he'd have to get past one of the two highest regarded prospects the Twins have had since the Falvey/Levine era started (Kirilloff or Lewis). 

In the very short term, the Twins will need to fill Gordon's spot on the active roster, but probably for just four days since Max Kepler can come off the IL this coming Tuesday. The Twins face two left handers in Anaheim and they may be short more than Nick Gordon. Jorge Polanco and Joey Gallo both left yesterday's game with injuries. I sincerely doubt Gallo will miss much time, but he might get a day off with a left hander starting on Friday. Polanco has a hamstring issue and I think it is possible he could miss games or even be placed on the IL. In the event of a Polanco IL stint, the obvious choice is Edouard Julien.