What should the Twins do with Jose Miranda?

[NotAboutWinning]

23 minutes ago, Hunter McCall said:

UPDATE: Twins optioned Miranda and reinstated Farmer. Hope he gets going down there.

Wishing Miranda a quick turn-around and hoping this is the thing that breaks the spell!

[TwinsDr2021]

27 minutes ago, Jocko87 said:

They have been very good at getting them to the AAAA level hitting well.  Getting over the hump in the bigs is a different story and probably has less to do with the FO than the player. Keep that in mind when we talk about CES and Steer, they aren't established yet either.

So the FO brings in the players and pays people to develop the players but it is on the players? I can't agree with that.

[TwinsDr2021]

1 hour ago, Hunter McCall said:

I personally believe it's too early for Lee. They have to allow him time to develop. Rushing him to the majors could hinder his development. There are other options that will provide an increase in production at third base without having to bring up Lee.

Why? other teams bring up young guys all the time, the Twins in the past have brought up young guys, but all of a sudden 22 is too young and is rushing a guy? If the guy is a major league baseball player and future all star type player it isn't going to hurt his development to bring him up.

[Hunter McCall]

3 minutes ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

Why? other teams bring up young guys all the time, the Twins in the past have brought up young guys, but all of a sudden 22 is too young and is rushing a guy? If the guy is a major league baseball player and future all star type player it isn't going to hurt his development to bring him up.

Brooks Lee has 229 career minor league at bats, none of which are higher than the AA level. He has played pretty well, but it's not like he's absolutely miles above his current competition. He has a .825 career minor league OPS. That's solid, but not good enough to say that he could jump right in and hit major league pitching. I think he is a future all star, but he needs to get more professional experience before they do so.

[TwinsDr2021]

1 hour ago, Squirrel said:

I’ll grant Garlick or Rodriguez, but I’m not easily removing the others as they will get picked up by another team for nothing. But space still needs to be made on the 26-man, and Gordon and Solano can’t be sent down without being lost. Doing that now is one thing but they will also have to do that again when Lewis comes off the 40-man. 

I am not afraid of losing almost 26 year old Sands, and Wallner is almost 25 1/2. Oh no, somebody might pick up Solanco, that could even save the Twins some money. Maybe give a call to Oakland or KC or another bad team and offer Sands or Wallner or both of a really young semi-decent prospect that doesn't need 40 man protection for a few years. Maybe throw in Balazovic to sweeten the deal. Nothing is too hard to ever come.

[Hunter McCall]

19 minutes ago, gman said:

Miranda and Larnach both had options so were easy to send down. Let them work at 3A for a few weeks. As far as the overall team goes, when any of our expected future players find and prove the right skills, management  can easily replace someone on the 26 man squad. No difficult search or head scratching needed.

We may spend the year incorporating future players into the lineup. They may have their ups and downs and spend the year riding the shuttle back and forth to St Paul. Work on weaknesses so that next year we don't have the big questions of who we can rely on to field a daily lineup.

When Royce Lewis is ready, he will be added to the big league roster because he will be their best option. I personally don't see them adding Brooks Lee to the major league roster until the rosters expand. He just hasn't played enough. The Twins roster is still built to win a division right now. I think about guys like Sonny Gray, Tyler Mahle, and Joey Gallo, all players who likely won't be around next year. The Twins will look to compete. They will play the best players they have healthy and available. For that reason, I don't see this as a year to just throw young guys in there and get them experience for the future. Young guys may play, but that's only because they are the best players available.

[Jocko87]

40 minutes ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

So the FO brings in the players and pays people to develop the players but it is on the players? I can't agree with that.

There's not a front office out there that can get you or I to play in the big leagues.   AAA to MLB wash out rate is insanely high. 

[TwinsDr2021]

26 minutes ago, Hunter McCall said:

Brooks Lee has 229 career minor league at bats, none of which are higher than the AA level. He has played pretty well, but it's not like he's absolutely miles above his current competition. He has a .825 career minor league OPS. That's solid, but not good enough to say that he could jump right in and hit major league pitching. I think he is a future all star, but he needs to get more professional experience before they do so.

Michael Harris was called up after 196 at bats in AA,  Vaughn Grissom 98, Julio Rodriguez, 206, Anthony Volpe very little, Nolan Gorman same, Dylan Carlson, and on and on, Real Prospects don't need to spend forever in the minors.

[Squirrel]

28 minutes ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

I am not afraid of losing almost 26 year old Sands, and Wallner is almost 25 1/2. Oh no, somebody might pick up Solanco, that could even save the Twins some money. Maybe give a call to Oakland or KC or another bad team and offer Sands or Wallner or both of a really young semi-decent prospect that doesn't need 40 man protection for a few years. Maybe throw in Balazovic to sweeten the deal. Nothing is too hard to ever come.

Oakland and KC are NOT giving up a prospect for those players. That's really not happening. Especially when they are rebuilding. 

And wow ... giving up on Sands and Wallner? Both could still provide some usefulness. You are quick on the axe, imo. My point was removing Garlick or Rodriguez does nothing to get Lee on the 26-man roster. Farmer is up now and Miranda is down. Maybe it will be Castro for Lewis in a couple of weeks ... would be my guess. Or for Miranda if he suddenly turns it around. But then one of them will come up for someone else ... that's when it will be Solano or Gordon.

[gman]

32 minutes ago, Hunter McCall said:

When Royce Lewis is ready, he will be added to the big league roster because he will be their best option. I personally don't see them adding Brooks Lee to the major league roster until the rosters expand. He just hasn't played enough. The Twins roster is still built to win a division right now. I think about guys like Sonny Gray, Tyler Mahle, and Joey Gallo, all players who likely won't be around next year. The Twins will look to compete. They will play the best players they have healthy and available. For that reason, I don't see this as a year to just throw young guys in there and get them experience for the future. Young guys may play, but that's only because they are the best players available.

Who said anything about just throwing guys in there, if better players were available. You read the wrong direction in what I said.

[TwinsDr2021]

7 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

Oakland and KC are NOT giving up a prospect for those players. That's really not happening. Especially when they are rebuilding. 

And wow ... giving up on Sands and Wallner? Both could still provide some usefulness. You are quick on the axe, imo. My point was removing Garlick or Rodriguez does nothing to get Lee on the 26-man roster. Farmer is up now and Miranda is down. Maybe it will be Castro for Lewis in a couple of weeks ... would be my guess. Or for Miranda if he suddenly turns it around. But then one of them will come up for someone else ... that's when it will be Solano or Gordon.

So you are saying if you called up either of those teams and offered Sands or Wallner for a semi decent 18 year old prospect (ranked between 30 and 40 in their prospects )they are going to say no? And yet they are good enough to be on the Twins 40 man? That makes zero sense, unless of course their 40 man is so full of better players than them.

[TwinsDr2021]

16 minutes ago, Jocko87 said:

There's not a front office out there that can get you or I to play in the big leagues.   AAA to MLB wash out rate is insanely high. 

Isn't that the job of the FO office to bring in guys that can play in the majors? Of course failure is high, On the current roster how many players did this FO draft that are on the team? I think it is Jeffers now that Larnach is down. 7 years? 1 guy? and it is the players fault? And I might the others that are close are 24 plus and some say they need more minor league time.

[Squirrel]

31 minutes ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

So you are saying if you called up either of those teams and offered Sands or Wallner for a semi decent 18 year old prospect (ranked between 30 and 40 in their prospects )they are going to say no? And yet they are good enough to be on the Twins 40 man? That makes zero sense, unless of course their 40 man is so full of better players than them.

They might, if they have a need for either. I'm suggesting a rebuilding team probably doesn't have room. Trading is about finding another willing team who has a need. To just say ... trade him to Oakland or KC ... that makes zero sense and not really how it works. But this discussion, for now, is moot. Farmer is up, Miranda has been optioned. We will make the next move when we need to.

[Hunter McCall]

42 minutes ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

Michael Harris was called up after 196 at bats in AA,  Vaughn Grissom 98, Julio Rodriguez, 206, Anthony Volpe very little, Nolan Gorman same, Dylan Carlson, and on and on, Real Prospects don't need to spend forever in the minors.

There's not one part of this that's true lol. Michael Harris has 746 career minor league at bats, Grissom has915, Rodriguez has 838, Volpe has 1044, Gorman has 1344, Dylan Carlson has 1494, and on and on... Brooks Lee has 229 TOTAL at bats in the minors. The point you're trying to make is not only ridiculous but it's not even close to being true.

[Hunter McCall]

52 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

Oakland and KC are NOT giving up a prospect for those players. That's really not happening. Especially when they are rebuilding. 

And wow ... giving up on Sands and Wallner? Both could still provide some usefulness. You are quick on the axe, imo. My point was removing Garlick or Rodriguez does nothing to get Lee on the 26-man roster. Farmer is up now and Miranda is down. Maybe it will be Castro for Lewis in a couple of weeks ... would be my guess. Or for Miranda if he suddenly turns it around. But then one of them will come up for someone else ... that's when it will be Solano or Gordon.

This is exactly right! I agree!

[Hunter McCall]

49 minutes ago, gman said:

Who said anything about just throwing guys in there, if better players were available. You read the wrong direction in what I said.

My apologies! I thought you were insinuating essentially punting on this year and getting guys ready for the future! Sorry about that! Thank you for the comment!

[mikelink45]

3 hours ago, Hunter McCall said:

As I noted, Miranda is really really hurting the team. The other guys have brought positives to the table that Miranda has not. Every metric agrees that Miranda is the biggest problem on the team at the moment. Ranks 18th on the team in Win Probability Added and dead last in Wins Above Replacement at -0.5. I know there are other people slumping, but I think Miranda needs to see inferior minor league pitching in order to get going and return to the Twins.

You could be right, but I am still ready to give him another week or two.

[Hunter McCall]

6 minutes ago, mikelink45 said:

You could be right, but I am still ready to give him another week or two.

Understandable, I just think this is a better option than wasting Castro's last option. Let him figure out his struggles in Saint Paul. That's my thought.

[TwinsDr2021]

1 hour ago, Hunter McCall said:

There's not one part of this that's true lol. Michael Harris has 746 career minor league at bats, Grissom has915, Rodriguez has 838, Volpe has 1044, Gorman has 1344, Dylan Carlson has 1494, and on and on... Brooks Lee has 229 TOTAL at bats in the minors. The point you're trying to make is not only ridiculous but it's not even close to being true.

and Lee has 1216 at bats including college so your point is what, only Twins prospects need extended time in the minors? All those players were in the majors prior to the age Lee is now. If the Twins don't think he is ready so be it but the longer he stays in the minors the less likely he is going to be the star we all hope he will be.

And FYI, what I wrote was true, that is how many AA at bats they had, (You said this - Brooks Lee has 229 career minor league at bats, none of which are higher than the AA), so maybe leave out the part about being ridiculous.

 

[TwinsDr2021]

1 hour ago, Squirrel said:

They might, if they have a need for either. I'm suggesting a rebuilding team probably doesn't have room. Trading is about finding another willing team who has a need. To just say ... trade him to Oakland or KC ... that makes zero sense and not really how it works. But this discussion, for now, is moot. Farmer is up, Miranda has been optioned. We will make the next move when we need to.

My point was referencing how you create room on the 40 man, and IMO this is a legit way (both seem fairly low on the Twins depth chart), saying two of the worst teams in the MLB don't have room for guys that are good enough to help a team compete for a division title but aren't good enough (with lots of control left) for a last place team seems like a interesting take. Does this happen often? I don't know but I thought this FO was supposed be a thinking outside the box FO.

[Hunter McCall]

9 minutes ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

and Lee has 1216 at bats including college so your point is what, only Twins prospects need extended time in the minors? All those players were in the majors prior to the age Lee is now. If the Twins don't think he is ready so be it but the longer he stays in the minors the less likely he is going to be the star we all hope he will be.

And FYI, what I wrote was true, that is how many AA at bats they had, (You said this - Brooks Lee has 229 career minor league at bats, none of which are higher than the AA), so maybe leave out the part about being ridiculous.

 

Okay? I had a couple hundred at bats in high school, am I ready for the major leagues? My original point was, why take a guy like Brooks Lee and bypass AAA just to thrust him into a position he isn't ready for? If he had a 1.000 OPS and was just tearing everybody apart you could maybe make the argument, but that's not the case. Lee is going to be a very good big league player, but he's not a phenom prospect who is major league ready immediately. I think he needs to spend a full year in the minors getting familiar with professional baseball.

[Reptevia]

Miranda shouldn’t be playing in the field for the Twins. He’s an absolute butcher. So DH?  You have to hit for that. I just don’t see a spot for him right now. It may change, but then there are probably better options. As was noted elsewhere, with all the certain HOFers on this club, he may find it hard to break back in. 

[rwilfong86]

Love Miranda, but this is the best move for the team. Miranda hasn't looked good defensively and despite an RBI last night, the hitting has not been there. Giving him some time in St Paul to work on his swing and defense will help him more than booting ground balls at 3rd and swinging at the first pitch in MLB.

[BD57]

opinion only:

By mid-May (we're basically there), guys have had enough plate appearances to give you an idea of how they're doing.

We have a LOT of guys who are struggling.   While it may make sense to give the vets with a track record additional time to figure it out, a younger guy like Miranda shouldn't have that long a leash.

Here's the thing - I'd expect the analytics guys to pinpoint where he's getting himself out - particular pitch, particular zone, and so on.   

This many guys struggling after a "normal' spring training suggests a gap in preparation somewhere.

[mikelink45]

6 hours ago, Hunter McCall said:

Understandable, I just think this is a better option than wasting Castro's last option. Let him figure out his struggles in Saint Paul. That's my thought.

They did it - 

[Doctor Wu]

18 hours ago, Squirrel said:

Oakland and KC are NOT giving up a prospect for those players. That's really not happening. Especially when they are rebuilding. 

And wow ... giving up on Sands and Wallner? Both could still provide some usefulness. You are quick on the axe, imo. My point was removing Garlick or Rodriguez does nothing to get Lee on the 26-man roster. Farmer is up now and Miranda is down. Maybe it will be Castro for Lewis in a couple of weeks ... would be my guess. Or for Miranda if he suddenly turns it around. But then one of them will come up for someone else ... that's when it will be Solano or Gordon.

I agree. Oakland can't afford to give up any prospects at all at this point. They will keep looking for waiver pickups and guys like Brent Rooker who were cast off by other teams. 

[Doctor Wu]

16 hours ago, rwilfong86 said:

Love Miranda, but this is the best move for the team. Miranda hasn't looked good defensively and despite an RBI last night, the hitting has not been there. Giving him some time in St Paul to work on his swing and defense will help him more than booting ground balls at 3rd and swinging at the first pitch in MLB.

I think you are right. Sending down Miranda to get some confidence (and maybe some fielding tips?) will be a good thing when all is said and done. 

[Hunter McCall]

20 hours ago, Reptevia said:

Miranda shouldn’t be playing in the field for the Twins. He’s an absolute butcher. So DH?  You have to hit for that. I just don’t see a spot for him right now. It may change, but then there are probably better options. As was noted elsewhere, with all the certain HOFers on this club, he may find it hard to break back in. 

Right now it looks like DH is his best route. He has to improve his feet in order to play either of the corner infield spots. Hopefully his bat gets right in AAA to make up for his poor ability in the field. The Twins will sacrifice a little with the glove if he is able to produce at the plate.

[Hunter McCall]

20 hours ago, rwilfong86 said:

Love Miranda, but this is the best move for the team. Miranda hasn't looked good defensively and despite an RBI last night, the hitting has not been there. Giving him some time in St Paul to work on his swing and defense will help him more than booting ground balls at 3rd and swinging at the first pitch in MLB.

Absolutely! Thanks for the comment!