Nightengale: Lohse in 'Awkward' Spot as Boras Fumes

[TheLeviathan]

Gee, I thought anyone taking the idea of giving hundreds of thousands of dollars to unproven children and comparing it to kidnapping was going to have a sane, rational position that I would be interested in hearing.

 

How wrong I was.

[diehardtwinsfan]

I find it amusing that people are running out there to call Boras a dick when they really dont' know the guy.

 

He's an agent whose best talent is maximizing the return for players, but when you are in high stakes negotiation, there's always risk. Boras and Lohse both knew the risk and chose to take it anyways, and I doubt Boras wouldn't have clients if he didn't clearly explain to them their risk. As some have said, Boras is right far more often than wrong, but in this case, it's going to hurt his client. It isn't the first time. The Twins got Crede and Kenny Rogers for similar reasons. Appel is another example, as losing a year of FA is going to cost him dearly I'd imagine.

[ashbury]

He wears a sweater vest, what did you expect?

 

That's a douche; similar but not quite the same.

[jokin]

Stolen our youth? Kidnapped our children? Yeah, it's horrible. These children get drafted to play baseball and if they end up even somewhat average (by MLB standards) they'll get paid MILLIONS of dollars...

 

The only thing worse than a player's agent lawyer is a drama queen player's agent lawyer. So was that Boras who put words into Latrell Sprewell's mouth?

[jokin]

Geez. Boras is such a drama queen.

 

Sorry to step on your quite accurate characterization, just working my way down the comment list.

[jokin]

The integrity of the game,'' Boras says, "is very damaged by this system. Draft dollars is the latest currency for GMs. And the best way to earn draft dollars is to sabotage your major-league team and finish last.''

 

This from the guy who 10 months ago had this to say about the new CBA:

 

Boras contends that he’s not trying to fool anyone. “I’m a lawyer and I understand something has been collectively bargained, and we are in no position to ask anyone to give it away,” he said. “I’ll play by their rules, and I don’t want to complain about it. I don’t want shenanigans.”

[Tcrose3636]

It is ironic when the agents were defending the free market system when the market was bearing huge contracts, now the free market has changed a bit and is now blaming the system. Boras miss judged the market for his client plan and simple. Teams don't feel Kyle is top of the line money, so they aren't paying it.

[Tcrose3636]

And....Boras is a Dick.

[beckmt]

The error Boras made is that Lohse is 34. A pitcher on the downside has to be careful to get the good contract. Boris errored and is now crying about it.

[TheLeviathan]

That was a great quote you pulled jokin. Whining is all this really is.

[old nurse]

As far as I know Boras has done nothing criminally wrong to earn disdain. When you need a lawyer and want to win you don't care if he is a dick, drama queen, wears a sweater vest, has the same turn on as Marv Albert or is two faced. Just win baby.

[JB_Iowa]

Isn't Lohse basically in a similar position to Pavano was in a couple of years ago (although a couple of years younger and with a change in the draft compensation rules)?

 

I'm sure that players and their agents weigh the risks involving loss of a draft pick -- and those of you who said that Boras misjudged the market are probably right but the market could change significantly with a few injuries to starting pitchers. (OTOH, if everybody stays healthy, it may not change much at all).

 

I do have a question, though. At what point does the draft pick loss become a moot point? Is this an entire-season problem for Lohse & Boras or is there a point a which teams could sign him without the draft pick compensation issue?

[IdahoPilgrim]

You don't have to be a criminal to be disdained.

 

In this case the disdain I have is for his comments. I find it somewhat hypocritical that he is complaining about competitive balance when his role in the system makes it difficult for smaller market teams to attract/retain talent. He's not doing anything wrong; his job is to get the best deal possible for his clients. But I have no sympathy for him when, as in this case, that is limited somewhat by the CBA.

[ashbury]

But I have no sympathy for him when, as in this case, that is limited somewhat by the CBA.

 

He is pointing out that if a pitcher is really really good, such as Grienke, he gets signed at something like market value. If he's not very good, such as Blanton or Correia, he gets signed signed at something like market value (lower of course). If a pitcher happens to be just good enough to be above the threshold in the CBA, he's not signed for anything close to market value. This seems like good enough reason to take another look at this aspect of the CBA. I don't see why that's whining. And it's not especially good for baseball to have one of its competent pitchers sitting out part of the season just because of a discontinuity such that the penalty for signing him takes away that much from his market value.

[PseudoSABR]

He is pointing out that if a pitcher is really really good, such as Grienke, he gets signed at something like market value. If he's not very good, such as Blanton or Correia, he gets signed signed at something like market value (lower of course). If a pitcher happens to be just good enough to be above the threshold in the CBA, he's not signed for anything close to market value. This seems like good enough reason to take another look at this aspect of the CBA. I don't see why that's whining. And it's not especially good for baseball to have one of its competent pitchers sitting out part of the season just because of a discontinuity such that the penalty for signing him takes away that much from his market value.

Sure, it's not great for Lohse. What I hope is that players and their agents rethink declining the qualifying offer--and that teams can better retain their high profile free agents. That's a good thing.

[Mr. Brooks]

Isn't Lohse basically in a similar position to Pavano was in a couple of years ago (although a couple of years younger and with a change in the draft compensation rules)?

 

I'm sure that players and their agents weigh the risks involving loss of a draft pick -- and those of you who said that Boras misjudged the market are probably right but the market could change significantly with a few injuries to starting pitchers. (OTOH, if everybody stays healthy, it may not change much at all).

 

I do have a question, though. At what point does the draft pick loss become a moot point? Is this an entire-season problem for Lohse & Boras or is there a point a which teams could sign him without the draft pick compensation issue?

 

He can be signed after the amateur draft in June, without the team having to forfeit a draft pick.

[Guest USAFChief]

He is pointing out that if a pitcher is really really good, such as Grienke, he gets signed at something like market value. If he's not very good, such as Blanton or Correia, he gets signed signed at something like market value (lower of course). If a pitcher happens to be just good enough to be above the threshold in the CBA, he's not signed for anything close to market value. This seems like good enough reason to take another look at this aspect of the CBA. I don't see why that's whining. And it's not especially good for baseball to have one of its competent pitchers sitting out part of the season just because of a discontinuity such that the penalty for signing him takes away that much from his market value.

You're missing the part about Lohse miscalculating his own market value. He was offered in excess of $12M, he turned it down. The problem isn't the CBA (which was collectively bargained, in case you forgot) it's Kyle Lohse's opinion of his own worth. And by the way, baseball will be just fine if Kyle Lohse isn't part of this season...which, to date, is his choice, not "baseball's."

[JB_Iowa]

Thanks Mr. Brooks - that's exactly what I wanted to know.

[Aaron Cross]

Boras lamenting the integrity of the game? He should talk. Baseball players have the best CBA in all of sports. No cap. Ridiculous contracts EVERYWHERE. Maybe teams realize Lohse is barely above mediocre and not worth giving ridiculous money. Or maybe teams just don't like his agent.

[70charger]

Looks like the Brewers bit the bullet for 3 years/$33 million. Kyle Lohse comes to terms with Brewers, long national nightmare is over | Hit and Run - SI.com

 

I don't like the deal if I'm a Brewers' fan. They bought him through his 37 year old season, and aside from his last two years, his stats scream #4. But who knows? Maybe he can keep it going?

[Mr. Brooks]

Looks like the Brewers bit the bullet for 3 years/$33 million. Kyle Lohse comes to terms with Brewers, long national nightmare is over | Hit and Run - SI.com

 

I don't like the deal if I'm a Brewers' fan. They bought him through his 37 year old season, and aside from his last two years, his stats scream #4. But who knows? Maybe he can keep it going?

 

Like you, I'm skeptical that he can keep it up.

But, at the same time I like the fact that the Brewers are willing to gamble and go all in when they think they have a window open.

They did it a few years ago, trading for CC, and now they are giving up a draft pick and a decent amount of money to (they hope) add some depth and reliability to their starting staff.

These are the types of moves I wish the Twins would have made a few years ago when they seemed to have a pretty good window open to them, and mostly stood pat every year, settling instead for minor tweaks.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Whew. Good thing Lohse signed. Now our children are safe again.

[Aaron Cross]

Brewers are nuts. $33 million and their 1st round pick for Kyle Lohse?

[Kobs]

You're missing the part about Lohse miscalculating his own market value. He was offered in excess of $12M, he turned it down. The problem isn't the CBA (which was collectively bargained, in case you forgot) it's Kyle Lohse's opinion of his own worth. And by the way, baseball will be just fine if Kyle Lohse isn't part of this season...which, to date, is his choice, not "baseball's."

 

Lohse's "worth" is kind of irrelevant, since he was expected to sign for his own worth, less the value of a high pick in order to keep the Yankees from signing the top players away (which totally worked, the Yankees haven't signed any big free agents, ever).

[Top Gun]

Lohse is worth every penny.