Chance Twins open season with 75/80m payroll??

[Mike Sixel]

When Jr says "the Twins can't give their money away," I don't believe him.

 

Baker 1/5.5

McCarthy 2/15.5

Blanton 2/15

 

The Twins could have pitched a signing bonus to all 3 equaling 50% of their 2013 salary, and they would have paid $30m next year, and only be on the hook for 15.5m in 2014.

 

They could have offered each an additional year of guaranteed money, incentives, no trade clauses, vesting options, whatever. They could have gotten more creative to get even 1 of these guys.

 

I can't believe all 3 turned down deals from the Twins that were better than what they ended up signing for.

 

Would Baker or McCarthy starting 15-20 games make the Twins competitive in 2013? Would Blanton pitching like he has the last couple of years make the Twins competitive? Giving these players more money than what they signed for is giving money away.

 

Yes, McCarthy on this roster over Deduno does make them more competitive. Does it alone make them great, no. But it makes them better. That should be the goal. If they should only spend money if they are "certain" to win, they should trade every player on this roster that won't be here in 2 years...and then sell no tickets.

[Willihammer]

Would Baker or McCarthy starting 15-20 games make the Twins competitive in 2013? Would Blanton pitching like he has the last couple of years make the Twins competitive? Giving these players more money than what they signed for is giving money away.

 

Considering who will likely pitch in their stead in 2013, and 2014 and 2015 for that matter, yes. With a few breaks and a little luck health-wise, the Twins could have been competitive in 2013 and 2014, or at least, more competitive.

 

Obviously, there is risk in all 3. But it didn't take huge longterm deals to get any of these guys. And, Justin Verlander could get hurt too. Chris Sale had a sore elbow last year, Peavy is always a risk. Everyone is a year older, some guys will break down. It works both ways.

 

At the very least, when you tell 22,000 people who have already bought season ticket packages, that you are going to field a competitive team, you should get the guys who, if the breaks go your way, are talented enough to deliver on your promise. I will happily eat crow if Ryan goes out and get Sanchez and Jackson, but that is not looking likely. Instead, if the rumors are to be believed, he is chasing 4 bottom feeders who even if healthy aren't talented enough to put this team into contention. That, would be money wasted.

[JB_Iowa]

The Twins created certain expectations by their repeated reference to the 50+% rule through the years. I've suggested previously that it may make sense to have a payroll of less than 50% while rebuilding while expending more than 50% once the team matures.

 

That approach makes sense to me. But given this franchise's repeated prior references to the 50% rule, they CANNOT do this in a vacuum. If they are to have any credibility with fans, they must explain what they are doing and then they must follow through on that spending plan as time goes along. Even if they do that, many fans are going to doubt their sincerity that they would later spend current savings. Like it or not, Terry Ryan and the Pohlads have a reputation for being cheap (and that reputation was strengthened when Jim Pohlad made it pretty clear that he replaced Bill Smith because Smith wanted to keep the budget at $110m+).

 

I actually expect this whole discussion to be moot. I don't think the Twins will significantly change their approach to the 50% rule. I do expect payroll to be in the $91 million - $94 million range. (Although I admittedly wouldn't be too surprised if it came in at $85-$90 m)

[70charger]

All I know is that my stance is that if they insist they are going to compete next year..and they don't spend the money on a decent pitcher, I'm not spending a dime to go see them play until I actually see they are competitive. If they'd spend the money to make it look.like an effort for 2013 is in place, I'd probably buy some tickets in advance. If their roster solutions consist of the lower tier variety, I'm not forking over a dime in advance.

 

All this talk of people saying how the Pohlads spend their millions of dollars and how it's not our money.. well that is how I will move forward regarding my money and the team.

 

What do you expect? Dave St. Peter calls a press conference and says "Hey, you know that year 2013? Yeah, **** that noise."

 

Not gonna happen.

[DaveW]

This whole thread summed up in 3 words:

 

HUUUURRRRRRR DUUUURRRRRR DEERP

[old nurse]

When Jr says "the Twins can't give their money away," I don't believe him.

 

Baker 1/5.5

McCarthy 2/15.5

Blanton 2/15

 

The Twins could have pitched a signing bonus to all 3 equaling 50% of their 2013 salary, and they would have paid $30m next year, and only be on the hook for 15.5m in 2014.

 

They could have offered each an additional year of guaranteed money, incentives, no trade clauses, vesting options, whatever. They could have gotten more creative to get even 1 of these guys.

 

I can't believe all 3 turned down deals from the Twins that were better than what they ended up signing for.

 

Would Baker or McCarthy starting 15-20 games make the Twins competitive in 2013? Would Blanton pitching like he has the last couple of years make the Twins competitive? Giving these players more money than what they signed for is giving money away.

 

Yes, McCarthy on this roster over Deduno does make them more competitive. Does it alone make them great, no. But it makes them better. That should be the goal. If they should only spend money if they are "certain" to win, they should trade every player on this roster that won't be here in 2 years...and then sell no tickets.

 

With McCarthy you would still get Deduno pitching as many games for the Twins as he did last year.

[old nurse]

Would Baker or McCarthy starting 15-20 games make the Twins competitive in 2013? Would Blanton pitching like he has the last couple of years make the Twins competitive? Giving these players more money than what they signed for is giving money away.

 

Considering who will likely pitch in their stead in 2013, and 2014 and 2015 for that matter, yes. With a few breaks and a little luck health-wise, the Twins could have been competitive in 2013 and 2014, or at least, more competitive.

 

Obviously, there is risk in all 3. But it didn't take huge longterm deals to get any of these guys. And, Justin Verlander could get hurt too. Chris Sale had a sore elbow last year, Peavy is always a risk. Everyone is a year older, some guys will break down. It works both ways.

 

At the very least, when you tell 22,000 people who have already bought season ticket packages, that you are going to field a competitive team, you should get the guys who, if the breaks go your way, are talented enough to deliver on your promise. I will happily eat crow if Ryan goes out and get Sanchez and Jackson, but that is not looking likely. Instead, if the rumors are to be believed, he is chasing 4 bottom feeders who even if healthy aren't talented enough to put this team into contention. That, would be money wasted.

 

Why not wait until the signings of more comment or healthier pitchers to sign to complain. Then you would not have to eat crow.

[Seth Stohs]

Michael Young was traded to Philadelphia. MLBTR thinks Texas may be looking for a 1B/DH type and that Olt may be available. Think Morneau would bring him?

 

No... They're not going to deal one of baseball's ttop hitting prospects for a year of a $14 million player. Also, so many in this forum would probably complain because that would mean that the Twins would have about $13.5 million less in payroll.

[Mike Sixel]

Michael Young was traded to Philadelphia. MLBTR thinks Texas may be looking for a 1B/DH type and that Olt may be available. Think Morneau would bring him?

 

No... They're not going to deal one of baseball's ttop hitting prospects for a year of a $14 million player. Also, so many in this forum would probably complain because that would mean that the Twins would have about $13.5 million less in payroll.

 

Not if they spent it.....but I would consider it a good trade. But that should create a context to spend money. But they'd really look like the Marlins then, wouldn't they?

[Seth Stohs]

Greinke just signed. A couple of mid-level pitchers have signed. Still lots out there and time. Why not at least wait a month to whine about what the Twins didn't do, rather than now about what they might not (or even probably won't) do.

[nicksaviking]

Greinke just signed. A couple of mid-level pitchers have signed. Still lots out there and time. Why not at least wait a month to whine about what the Twins didn't do, rather than now about what they might not (or even probably won't) do.

 

Well assuming they won't compete with the big pockets over Sanchez, and if we are to believe LE3, that the Twins won't pursue Marcum or Jackson, there's no other pitchers any reasonable fan should give two wet farts about.

[kab21]

It's kind of humorous how people are surprised that rebuilding teams trade veterans and are hesitant to sign aging and declining veterans to long contracts.

[Top Gun]

The price just went up on FA pitchers. Now the big market teams will make there bids. It's over for the Twins the fat lady is singing.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Not if they spent it.....but I would consider it a good trade. But that should create a context to spend money. But they'd really look like the Marlins then, wouldn't they?

 

No, the Twins wouldn't look like the Marlins because Ryan is actually getting talent in return for the players they're trading.

 

What Loria is doing in Florida is abominable.

[kab21]

It's abominable because they will open the season with a 15M payroll once they trade Nolasco. I would disagree that they didn't get talent in return though. Marisnick and Nicolino aren't far behind May and Meyer imo. And they also rid themselves of Buehrle's contract.

 

I've made an argument before that in addition to a luxury tax, baseball also needs a salary floor. If you don't spend X then your revenue sharing is reduced and/or eliminated. There is absolutely no excuse that Loria should get any of the revenue sharing for fielding an absolutely awful baseball team.

[Brock Beauchamp]

It's abominable because they will open the season with a 15M payroll once they trade Nolasco. I would disagree that they didn't get talent in return though. Marisnick and Nicolino aren't far behind May and Meyer imo. And they also rid themselves of Buehrle's contract.

 

I've made an argument before that in addition to a luxury tax, baseball also needs a salary floor. If you don't spend X then your revenue sharing is reduced and/or eliminated. There is absolutely no excuse that Loria should get any of the revenue sharing for fielding an absolutely awful baseball team.

 

They got talent back but they traded half a roster of former All-Stars to do it.

 

Take your time, piecemeal out those players, pay some of the salaries you've offloaded, and the Marlins could have doubled their return. But no, Loria turned greedy and proved just how awful an owner he really can be. I'd like to see the city of Miami find a way to drag his ass into court over this crap.

 

And Selig should be railroading his ass straight out of baseball.

[minn55441]

It's abominable because they will open the season with a 15M payroll once they trade Nolasco. I would disagree that they didn't get talent in return though. Marisnick and Nicolino aren't far behind May and Meyer imo. And they also rid themselves of Buehrle's contract.

 

I've made an argument before that in addition to a luxury tax, baseball also needs a salary floor. If you don't spend X then your revenue sharing is reduced and/or eliminated. There is absolutely no excuse that Loria should get any of the revenue sharing for fielding an absolutely awful baseball team.

 

I agree with everything you said, the problem is that I was saying the same thing about Oakland last off season. When they traded Gio and Baily, I thought that they were only going to field a AAA team. Then they went out and signed a Cuban guy late in the off season and he supplied just enough offense to win a division. Not just any division, but the division included the teams that spent the most last off season.

 

I'm a season ticket holder. I vented my frustration with the pitching last year and the lack of money spent on what everyone knew was a problem heading into the season. I've already paid for 2013, so I just have to have some faith that TR is going to make a competitive run this year. If he doesn't bring anyone in from the outside to start, he should be relieved of his duties. As far as who he brings in let the performance on the field be the judge. I sure didn't give Oakland or Baltimore a chance last year. Maybe TR can pull a few rabbits out of his hat like Billy Beane did last year.

[Seth Stohs]

It's kind of humorous how people are surprised that rebuilding teams trade veterans and are hesitant to sign aging and declining veterans to long contracts.

 

It's incredible, isn't it?

[Rosterman]

The Twins will not carryover profit. They are still paying off their portion of the stadium, I believe. 50% of $150 million and then 50% of $200+ million.....hummmmmm did they give everyone in the front office, scouting staff and such a raise? I think not. Because they are :losers" they egt higher draft picks and have to pay more. But if you win, you all sell more tickets, concessions et al. More people watch television and such.

 

They can spend. Not just on a pitcher but now an outfielder or a shortstop or someone. They have another $25+ million off the payroll next year, + $25 million more in TV revenue.

 

22,000 season ticket holders. Another 5,000 game sales. Okay, 10,000 empty seats in 2013.

 

Might as well trade Mauer, too.

 

Be the team with the fastest decrease in attendance with a new stadium ever.

 

You don't always win by spending carelessly, but the Twins supposedly have some money to spend and can spend it and not effect their bottom line, so why not do it. Get someone, something. Even futrue trade chips.

 

Hell, if they are doing nothing more, then they could've spent $24 million on Grienke for six years and let him led the staff when they really become competitive in 2015-2018.

[70charger]

The Twins will not carryover profit. They are still paying off their portion of the stadium, I believe. 50% of $150 million and then 50% of $200+ million.....hummmmmm did they give everyone in the front office, scouting staff and such a raise? I think not. Because they are :losers" they egt higher draft picks and have to pay more. But if you win, you all sell more tickets, concessions et al. More people watch television and such.

 

They can spend. Not just on a pitcher but now an outfielder or a shortstop or someone. They have another $25+ million off the payroll next year, + $25 million more in TV revenue.

 

22,000 season ticket holders. Another 5,000 game sales. Okay, 10,000 empty seats in 2013.

 

Might as well trade Mauer, too.

 

Be the team with the fastest decrease in attendance with a new stadium ever.

 

You don't always win by spending carelessly, but the Twins supposedly have some money to spend and can spend it and not effect their bottom line, so why not do it. Get someone, something. Even futrue trade chips.

 

Hell, if they are doing nothing more, then they could've spent $24 million on Grienke for six years and let him led the staff when they really become competitive in 2015-2018.

 

Mr. Rosterman, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points. And may God have mercy on your soul.

[snepp]

And Selig should be railroading his ass straight out of baseball.

 

It's Loria that has been railroading Selig's ass for two decades, why stop now?

[Mike Sixel]

Its amazing that people keep putting up straw man arguments that no one is making. Most people suggesting they spend money have suggested signing guys that should still be good in 2 or 3 or more years. Also, the GM said they would spend money to he competitive. Also, they are 3 years into a new stadium. Also, they are 25 million below last year. Also, 25 million more is coming in revenue next year. Is it unreasonable to want them to sign one legit pitcher to a long term deal, given all that?

[twinsnorth49]

The Twins will not carryover profit. They are still paying off their portion of the stadium, I believe. 50% of $150 million and then 50% of $200+ million.....hummmmmm did they give everyone in the front office, scouting staff and such a raise? I think not. Because they are :losers" they egt higher draft picks and have to pay more. But if you win, you all sell more tickets, concessions et al. More people watch television and such.

 

They can spend. Not just on a pitcher but now an outfielder or a shortstop or someone. They have another $25+ million off the payroll next year, + $25 million more in TV revenue.

 

22,000 season ticket holders. Another 5,000 game sales. Okay, 10,000 empty seats in 2013.

 

Might as well trade Mauer, too.

 

Be the team with the fastest decrease in attendance with a new stadium ever.

 

You don't always win by spending carelessly, but the Twins supposedly have some money to spend and can spend it and not effect their bottom line, so why not do it. Get someone, something. Even futrue trade chips.

 

Hell, if they are doing nothing more, then they could've spent $24 million on Grienke for six years and let him led the staff when they really become competitive in 2015-2018.

 

 

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/mad/1335.gif

[Mike Sixel]

I'll tell you what I wouldn't do...trade Sano and Gibson for Shields and Davis and PTBNL....what is KC doing? Awful trade for KC, great trade for MN and TB.

[johnnydakota]

If they were to use some of the "extra" money to sign another Sano or Kepler or two, I would be OK with that.

 

huh? the twins and every other team are allowed to spend a set amount in the draft including a set amout for international signings,and they didnt spend there allotment in either case last year

[greengoblinrulz]

I'll tell you what I wouldn't do...trade Sano and Gibson for Shields and Davis and PTBNL....what is KC doing? Awful trade for KC, great trade for MN and TB.

Yeah, Id hate it also if my team dealt for a top of the rotation horse

[nicksaviking]

It's kind of humorous how people are surprised that rebuilding teams trade veterans and are hesitant to sign aging and declining veterans to long contracts.

 

It's incredible, isn't it?

 

I have no illusion of competing next year, and I've been on the rebuild bandwagon since before last season, so unless the Twins change their minds and go after Marcum or Jackson on a multi year deal, I couldn't care less if they sign the other junkballers as rental players.

 

However, to rip on those that DO want to see some free agent action is a load of crap seeing as the GM flat out lied to the fans, specifically those that follow this site. Ryan said he was going after a "pretty darn good" pitcher, John's quote not mine.

http://twinsdaily.com/twins-talk/3801-article-terry-ryan-twins-will-chase-pretty-darn-good-pitcher.html

 

Now unless we find out Ryan is making a play for Sanchez, we know that was not true, as reports from LE3 have refuted that the Twins have made any offers to any of the other top arms.

 

Ryan was just on the baseball network the other day and said you can make offers but "sometimes you can't give money away." Sneaky, sneaky. The implication was that the Twins were TRYING to sign guys but they wouldn't take the offers, what it likely meant was, "We ain't giving our money to those bums."

 

There is no obligation for Ryan to be straight with us, but by deceiving the fans with the hope that the rotation will be improved via free agency, he forfeits his right to be defended by Twins homers.

[TheLeviathan]

Yeah, Id hate it also if my team dealt for a top of the rotation horse

 

Where is that Picard image when you need it?

[johnnydakota]

Michael Young was traded to Philadelphia. MLBTR thinks Texas may be looking for a 1B/DH type and that Olt may be available. Think Morneau would bring him?

they want a right handed bat to platoon with moreland

[greengoblinrulz]

Yeah, Id hate it also if my team dealt for a top of the rotation horse

 

Where is that Picard image when you need it?

 

sorry but there is no guarrantee that myers can/will be any better than Mostakas/Hosmer have been the past 2 yrs or what Gordon/Butler etc did their first couple yrs......Shields is an absolute top of rotation innings eater (didnt say ace tho). They dealt from percieved strength (young hotshot hitter prospect types) to get what they dont have.

I love what KC has done this offseason to get their pitching in order.