Twins Moving on From SP Trade Targets?

[Mike Sixel]

Outside of Stroman, who that has been dealt have they come up short on thus far?

Darvish. Numerous international players. It's not a one year trend.

 

As long as they add players, the media stuff doesn't matter to me, but they've just missed on players every year of this front office.

[nicksaviking]

 

I'll try again.

How would you like the rest of us to assess the value of trades involving prospects? To see what might be reasonable for the Twins to make deals, for example?

 

Using the lists are fine for evaluation, it's the 'Someone's lying to me because there's no way the Blue Jays wouldn't have preferred Kirilloff or Graterol or Larnich' that's going to drive me crazy today.

[Mike Sixel]

Using the lists are fine for evaluation, it's the 'Someone's lying to me because there's no way the Blue Jays wouldn't have preferred Kirilloff or Graterol or Larnich' that's going to drive me crazy today.

Fair

[SwainZag]

 

Darvish. Numerous international players. It's not a one year trend.

As long as they add players, the media stuff doesn't matter to me, but they've just missed on players every year of this front office.

 

Ah, overall not just this year.  I still thinking missing on Darvish was a  blessing, same as Kimbrel with the contract he received.  I'd rather have my front office be on things and come up short than not be interseted or hear about it, but that's just a personal opinion.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Outside of Stroman, who that has been dealt have they come up short on thus far?

This is the first time they are really trade buyers, but free agents Darvish and Kimbrel come to mind. (Not to make this a tangent about whether we'd be better off signing those players or not, just citing them as examples of players the front office admittedly pursued but failed to land.)

 

Edit: Coke to Mike.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Ah, overall not just this year. I still thinking missing on Darvish was a blessing, same as Kimbrel with the contract he received. I'd rather have my front office be on things and come up short than not be interseted or hear about it, but that's just a personal opinion.

That's fair, but at some point, they are going to have to deliver the goods, and this trade deadline seems like a very strong opportunity.

[Vanimal46]

Outside of Stroman, who that has been dealt have they come up short on thus far?

This year no one yet... So far they've expressed interest in Minor, Thor, Stroman, and Robbie Ray publicly. If they go 0 for 4 I'm sure there will be convenient reasons why they missed out acquiring them.

 

In 2017 there's the Dozier trade that never went through because they just couldn't find the right package of prospects from the Dodgers that worked.

 

In 2018 we had the famous Darvish negotiations where they finished in 2nd place and just couldn't muster that 6th year on the contract.

[nicksaviking]

 

That's fair, but at some point, they are going to have to deliver the goods, and this trade deadline seems like a very strong opportunity.

 

I'm not going to be happy if they come away from this deadline with only Romo in their hands, but I don't know about holding their feet to the fire for free agents. They didn't get Darvish or Kimbrel, but it seems to me they've gotten more of them that they've been rumored to be attached to than most teams the last two years. Certainly the organization has signed way more legit free agents the last two years than ever before.

[Doomtints]

There is also a story out there where Falvey is saying they have enough pieces floating around the system already to where they feel OK about the bullpen situation.

[SwainZag]

 

That's fair, but at some point, they are going to have to deliver the goods, and this trade deadline seems like a very strong opportunity.

 

And I, like probably everyone here hope they do, but I would rather they come up short on deals like those who right now, both seem to be serious overpays by Chicago.  Coming up short isn't a bad thing when someone else is willing to overpay, just how I see it.

 

Davish has been worth about 1 WAR for the $40M they have paid him and Kimbrel  has a FIP of over 8 in his first dozen appearances.  "Winning" either bid would seem like a net loss to me right now. :shrug:  

 

That being said, I hope they find a way to add before tomorrow night.

[PseudoSABR]

 

Darvish. Numerous international players. It's not a one year trend.

As long as they add players, the media stuff doesn't matter to me, but they've just missed on players every year of this front office.

Every team falls short on players they are rumored with.  We are just don't follow them as closely.  I seriously doubt this is unique to the Twins, considering a FA can only sign with one team, and a player can only be traded to one team, despite all the rumors.

[Utah Twins Fan]

This point is very valid and is what scares me that nothing else will happen

[Otto von Ballpark]

I'm not going to be happy if they come away from this deadline with only Romo in their hands, but I don't know about holding their feet to the fire for free agents. They didn't get Darvish or Kimbrel, but it seems to me they've gotten more of them that they've been rumored to be attached to than most teams the last two years. Certainly the organization has signed way more legit free agents the last two years than ever before.

True, but those guys have mostly been lower-stakes, short-term deals. TR and Bill Smith even managed a few of those themselves, with lower payrolls, although not with the same frequency!

 

This deadline is a bigger test than the FA stuff, for sure.

[SomeGuy]

 

I just don't get the sense that the Mets are feeling obligated to trade Syndegaard unless they get a top notch return for him in the return. Seem's like the Twins blinked when the price of Poker remained incredibly expensive. I know I mentioned Buxton in an earlier thread, do I want to trade him or part with him no, he is a real catalyst for the Twins, but it looks like in order to get a pitcher of Syndegaard type pitcher the Mets are signaling to teams that this deal is going to take a top notch outfielder (CF) type or starting third basemen, or even your best catcher or starting catching prospects. This look's like where they are headed in talks. If they move Syndegaard at all I don't think they do it until the offseason. 

Agree, what I don't get about the Stroman trade is that they admit that the 2020 goal is winning but can they trade Syndergaard AND upgrade the 2020 team? It would take at least one talented MLB player or multiple impact prospects that are close to MLB ready. I don't see a contender giving up key pieces to their current or 2020 team to get him. They should trade Wheeler and keep Thor but who knows with the Mets. Their best bet on Thor is the Yankees with Clint Frazier and/or the injured Andujar but that seems unlikely too. Going from Thor to Stroman is already a negative plus they lose a year of control, they would need to win the trade by that much more to upgrade 2020 IMO.

 

I think the media is blowing this up like they are for Bauer rumors. They keep quoting "one rival executive" who says they really want to trade Thor but they have also quoted a rival executive who got the sense that they were trying for a 2019 wildcard spot. Every year they have to play up unlikely trades to get some clicks, fortunately we haven't had the "could Mike Trout be traded" discussion this year.

[markos]

Does anyone else find it extremely strange that La Velle framed his article that basically "The Twins are done looking for starting pitching", but only talks about Stroman and Syndergaard? There are other starting pitchers available, right? Wheeler, Ray, Minor, Boyd? I don't feel like Stroman is head-and-shoulders above any of those guys.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Does anyone else find it extremely strange that La Velle framed his article that basically "The Twins are done looking for starting pitching", but only talks about Stroman and Syndergaard? There are other starting pitchers available, right? Wheeler, Ray, Minor, Boyd? I don't feel like Stroman is head-and-shoulders above any of those guys.

My theory was that they weren't really interested in adding a SP unless it was top-shelf like Syndergaard, or close enough to top-shelf AND pair-able with a top-shelf reliever like Stroman and Giles.

 

I guess the other guys might be pair-able with relievers too, but maybe not on the same level as the Stroman/Giles combo.

[David HK]

I keep checking in to the site for news of a deal-

 

But, I'm a Twins fan of several decades now- and for those of us out here who are of a similar vintage, how many times, year after year after year, has the club made noises, but stood pat and failed to reap anything at the deadline?

 

I am so used to this...

[nicksaviking]

 

Does anyone else find it extremely strange that La Velle framed his article that basically "The Twins are done looking for starting pitching", but only talks about Stroman and Syndergaard? There are other starting pitchers available, right? Wheeler, Ray, Minor, Boyd? I don't feel like Stroman is head-and-shoulders above any of those guys.

 

If I was interested in other pitchers, I'd probably prefer not to talk about it, but that would have also gone for Stroman and Syndergaard. I know there's a catharsis for us to hear the rumors, but strategically, I don't know that it's always for the benefit of the team.

 

MLBTR chat just suggested that the Mets may go ahead and pull a Jaime Garcia and re-flip Stroman. He's not a guy I care for, but the Mets turning around and flipping him to the Twins for what everyone but the Jays perceived as the better offer sounds about as nuts as I'd expect from both organizations.

[PseudoSABR]

 

My theory was that they weren't really interested in adding a SP unless it was top-shelf like Syndergaard, or close enough to top-shelf AND pair-able with a top-shelf reliever like Stroman and Giles.

I guess the other guys might be pair-able with relievers too, but maybe not on the same level as the Stroman/Giles combo.

I endorse such a strategy.  Other pitchers, Ray included, don't seem like enough of an upgrade to part with assets that could be better spent towards acquiring bullpen help.

[KidBro]

This is a test to be graded potentially after the trade deadline, or in October.  The FO needs to make trades w/ the goal of (A) winning the World Series and ( Sustained success in 2020 and 2021 (pending SP acquisitions).   Past that, is too many variables to let this record setting offense go to waste.  I'll grade the performance based on the entire trade deadline (who was traded and for what vs Twins M&A's) and how we fair in October.  If Syndergaard is still in a NYM uniform on Thursday, I hardly would blame our FO to meet such outlandish demands that seem to be league wide consensus.  If a couple top bullpen arms are moved for anything less than a top 100 prospect, I'm going to be getting the red ink out.  

 

Get High end/late inning pieces & possibly Kennedy.   

 

 

[nicksaviking]

I'm still surprised there's next to no chatter about Rockies players being moved. I'd take an under-the-radar Jon Gray deal.

[Mike Sixel]

I'm still surprised there's next to no chatter about Rockies players being moved. I'd take an under-the-radar Jon Gray deal.

Yes! But that FO is pretty bad.

[nicksaviking]

 

Yes! But that FO is pretty bad.

 

They seem to love left handed corner bats, can never have too many of those in Denver it seems. Probably let them pick either Kirilloff or Larnich and one of Raley or Blankenhorn then toss in Jake Cave for good measure and they'll let you take whatever right handed human being you want from their roster.

[Otto von Ballpark]

I'm still surprised there's next to no chatter about Rockies players being moved. I'd take an under-the-radar Jon Gray deal.

What should be under-the-radar about Jon Gray? He has a 138 ERA+ this year, for the 2nd time in the last 3 years. And controlled 2 more seasons at reasonable arb prices.

 

The reason you don't hear any trade chatter about him right now is the same reason we don't hear about most other good, controllable pitchers -- their teams actually want them and aren't rebuilding.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Yes! But that FO is pretty bad.

The bad FO thing to do would be to trade Gray for prospects right now, hoping to find another pitcher who can succeed in Coors Field in the near future...

[nicksaviking]

 

What should be under-the-radar about Jon Gray? He has a 138 ERA+ this year, for the 2nd time in the last 3 years. And controlled 2 more seasons at reasonable arb prices.

The reason you don't hear any trade chatter about him right now is the same reason we don't hear about most other good, controllable pitchers -- their teams actually want them and aren't rebuilding.

 

Right, but we're hearing chatter about every other pitcher with less than 3 years of control on losing teams. Some winning teams as well. Why Ray and Syndergaard but not Gray? Matthew Boyd has even more control and we've been hearing his name for over a month now.

[SwainZag]

 

What should be under-the-radar about Jon Gray? He has a 138 ERA+ this year, for the 2nd time in the last 3 years. And controlled 2 more seasons at reasonable arb prices.

The reason you don't hear any trade chatter about him right now is the same reason we don't hear about most other good, controllable pitchers -- their teams actually want them and aren't rebuilding.

 

Shouldn't that be precisely why they should move him now?  Teams want controllable starters, he has a lot of value and the Rockies really aren't built to contend in the near future.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Right, but we're hearing chatter about every other pitcher with less than 3 years of control on losing teams. Some winning teams as well. Why Ray and Syndergaard but not Gray? Matthew Boyd has even more control and we've been hearing his name for over a month now.

Syndergaard's availability is noteworthy because it is ususual.

 

Ray is controlled for less, and arguably not as good as Gray.

 

And the Tigers are a far worse team than the Rockies.

[nicksaviking]

 

Shouldn't that be precisely why they should move him now?  Teams want controllable starters, he has a lot of value and the Rockies really aren't built to contend in the near future.

 

If I was the Rockies, I'd be telling the Astros, Twins, Padres, Yankees and Braves to show them their rejected Syndergaard proposals if for no other reason than to stir the pot.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Shouldn't that be precisely why they should move him now? Teams want controllable starters, he has a lot of value and the Rockies really aren't built to contend in the near future.

The Rockies aren't rebuilding either. They made the NLDS just last year. They're not perfect but they've got Arenado, Story, Blackmon, Rodgers, Gray, and Marquez. If anything, they'd probably want to shed some money, more than shedding talent for prospects.