Are Fans Focusing on the Wrong Pitching Unit to Improve?

[brockbesler]

They need to get at least one reliever as good as Rogers and one more solid reliever. They should call the Nationals and offer them Graterol, Javier, Blankenhorn, and whoever else they need to for Scherzer.

[Mr. Brooks]

What???

 

They signed Quinton McCracken in July!!

 

Don’t hate on the Q!!

 

Also, if Liriano doesn’t blow out his elbow - something that happened just after the deadline, the Twins might not have needed much pitching help.

The Twins got swept that year.

Liriano alone couldn't have prevented that.

[Brock Beauchamp]

What???

 

They signed Quinton McCracken in July!!

 

Don’t hate on the Q!!

 

Also, if Liriano doesn’t blow out his elbow - something that happened just after the deadline, the Twins might not have needed much pitching help.

I’m not defending the Twins lack of 2000s acquisitions but that 2006 team had some rotten luck. Liriano went down and then Radke’s arm basically fell off.

 

All of that happened well after the deadline.

[USAFChief]

 

I’m not defending the Twins lack of 2000s acquisitions but that 2006 team had some rotten luck. Liriano went down and then Radke’s arm basically fell off.

All of that happened well after the deadline.

They also had Nick Punto at 3rd, and Rondell White at DH. Ryan did absolutely zero to help that team.

[yarnivek1972]

They also had Nick Punto at 3rd, and Rondell White at DH. Ryan did absolutely zero to help that team.

In a back handed way he did. He released Juan Castro and Tony Batista to let Bartlett and Punto play and fluorish. Of course, he signed those two stiffs to begin with.

[Squirrel]

I'd be curious to know the cost difference between a late inning reliever and a starter we could label as #3 or higher? It may not be that much more to go for the starter.

I would think that could vary depending on years control. But I think we could find both. And should be looking for both, and make the deals we can.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

For most of the 1st half I’ve been all in on the Stroman bandwagon, and still am to a degree because of his extra year of controllability. However, if you really want a starter with ace-like stuff, forget about Stroman and Bumgarner, the Mets have two flamethrowing starters that would fit nicely in between Berrios and Odorizzi.

And while I understand that most would instantly gravitate toward Syndergaard because of his controllability, I actually would prefer to pay less for similar performance in Wheeler so that we can also address our weak bullpen with a Vazquez and or Iglesias acquisition.

Wheeler's contract would make the prospect price cheaper... but the Mets just extended him. I have a tough time believing he's on the market... now if he is, go get him.

 

My choices though are Syndergard or Boyd. I think both of those guys fit that bill and I don't mind paying a bit more to get them. Boyd is definitely on the market. Not quite sure about Thor. 

 

Another team to watch is AZ. This was supposed to be a tanking year. They are at .500 tied for 3rd in their division (though their run differential says they've been unlucky)… I'm wondering if they choose to make Grienke available if they hit a bad spell after the ASB.

[Riverbrian]

 

Wheeler's contract would make the prospect price cheaper... but the Mets just extended him. I have a tough time believing he's on the market... now if he is, go get him.

 

My choices though are Syndergard or Boyd. I think both of those guys fit that bill and I don't mind paying a bit more to get them. Boyd is definitely on the market. Not quite sure about Thor. 

 

Another team to watch is AZ. This was supposed to be a tanking year. They are at .500 tied for 3rd in their division (though their run differential says they've been unlucky)… I'm wondering if they choose to make Grienke available if they hit a bad spell after the ASB.

 

To my knowledge... Wheeler has not been extended. Still a Rental option. 

[USAFChief]

To my knowledge... Wheeler has not been extended. Still a Rental option.

correct.

 

And since he's only owed about $3m for the rest of this yr, the prospect price would actually be higher.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Also, if Liriano doesn’t blow out his elbow - something that happened just after the deadline, the Twins might not have needed much pitching help.

Even with Liriano, Radke was our #3 at the time and his shoulder was attached with duct tape at the time. I think we needed some form of SP addition at the 2006 deadline (and instead we actually subtracted SP by dealing Lohse, who admittedly struggled for us in 2006 but immediately regrouped for 11 starts of 103 ERA+ for the Reds down the stretch). And no way were we going to lean on Santana and rookie Liriano like Johnson/Schilling circa 2001 anyway.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Wheeler's contract would make the prospect price cheaper... but the Mets just extended him. I have a tough time believing he's on the market... now if he is, go get him.

I believe you are thinking of de Grom, not Wheeler.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Another team to watch is AZ. This was supposed to be a tanking year. They are at .500 tied for 3rd in their division (though their run differential says they've been unlucky)… I'm wondering if they choose to make Grienke available if they hit a bad spell after the ASB.

Arizona certainly wasn't going "all-in" for 2019 but it was hardly supposed to be a tanking year. They lost two FA but one (Pollock) was a probably a good "no sign" considering his age/health/performance history, and the other (Corbin) was probably just too expensive. They also got multiple immediate contributors back for an expiring asset in the Goldschmidt trade.

 

I expect they will do some more selling of expiring assets if they fall further back in the race this month, but probably not much selling of 2020-2021 assets without a substantial return.

 

FWIW, just my usual reminder that Greinke has a limited no-trade which includes the Twins too.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I’m not defending the Twins lack of 2000s acquisitions but that 2006 team had some rotten luck. Liriano went down and then Radke’s arm basically fell off.

All of that happened well after the deadline.

I'm pretty sure Radke's shoulder was already bad enough that he deferred on surgery the previous offseason, to pitch one last year. Yes, he didn't actually go on the shelf until August 2006, but it was hardly a surprising outcome.

 

And here's how the Liriano injury situation started:

 

 

On August 1, 2006, Liriano was scratched from his scheduled August 2 start because of forearm inflammation after a bullpen session

 

So even if they didn't know much about his health before the 4 PM ET deadline on July 31st, they had pretty much the entire August waiver trade period to address it. (Edit to add: looks like Moyer and Wells were both dealt that August. Again, not Liriano replacements exactly, but better than doing nothing!)

 

Even so, there was no way we were going to be able to lean enough on Johan and rookie Liriano to make up for the rest of that rotation anyway. It doesn't take post-trade deadline hindsight to figure that out. You might be able to consider it good luck that Boof Bonser put together a couple good months down the stretch too -- not enough to offset the loss of Liriano, of course, but it's not like it was all bad luck. (The performances of Reyes and Neshek in the pen have to be considered very good luck too. Plus a little good luck in Punto's season, and Rondell White's solid second half.)

[USAFChief]

Bumgarner was removed from his start last night after taking a liner off his left elbow.

 

HIS PRICE JUST WENT DOWN!!1!

[Mike Sixel]

I hope the Ryan history has nothing to do with this front office behavior. We'll know in four weeks, I guess.

 

The instructive thing about that history is that it shows that injuries happen, bad luck happens, and stuff. You need to take advantage of those times things go well, like this year, because they may not next year. Don't give up the farm, but don't sit out the chance for this year either.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

All of that in 2006, and the Twins still made up 10.0 games in the standings after August 1st.

[Squirrel]

I hope the Ryan history has nothing to do with this front office behavior. We'll know in four weeks, I guess.

The instructive thing about that history is that it shows that injuries happen, bad luck happens, and stuff. You need to take advantage of those times things go well, like this year, because they may not next year. Don't give up the farm, but don't sit out the chance for this year either.

I thought the last two summers were very different from the Ryan FO. It may not have been what we wanted or would have done, but it was different.

[Mike Sixel]

I thought the last two summers were very different from the Ryan FO. It may not have been what we wanted or would have done, but it was different.

Selling off assets is very different than using prospects to get better now. I too think they sold more than Ryan, so that's a good sign, even if I would not have traded pressley. Like I said, we'll see if they go in or sit out in four weeks

[Danchat]

I think it may be worth mentioning that our pitching staff has been incredibly durable so far this year and that may not continue through the second half. What happens if Rogers goes down? They could use more pitching depth just in case.