Game Thread: Twins @ White Sox, 6/28/18 @ 11:10 AM PT (12:10pm CT)

[wavedog]

Quite the at-bat going here

[Aggies7]

That’s a heck of a job. Something to be proud of.

[Cap'n Piranha]

 

yes and no. They could have had Wade and Gordon in AAA from the get go, we'd know a lot more about them right now, and their readiness. Gonsalves could have started there. RPs that are there could have been given a chance (and allowed the team to use AAA as extra roster space, instead their bullpen is largely guys w/o options). They could have signed better backups.

 

And, I don't care which regime it is anymore......

 

And, it is a game thread, so I think I'll bow out of this overly serious discussion.....but I think people aren't looking at the trades, FA, and other decisions of the FO and are instead blaming it all on the players and injuries.

 

My final rejoinder.  Nick Gordon has a .639 OPS at AAA.  Lamonte Wade is at .703.  Both are worse than Jake Cave's .711 in MLB.  Maybe they started in AA because the FO didn't think they were quite ready for AAA yet.

 

I was referring to only the lineup, but since you bring him up, Gonsalves has a 4.56 ERA, 1.42 WHIP, and is walking more than 6 batters per 9.

 

I agree with you on the bullpen, I want Moya/Curtiss/Reed up yesterday, but when you struggle to score more than 2 runs, a great bullpen isn't going to move the needle a ton.

 

The front office has been forced to turn to replacement players due to everyone not named Ed or Jose struggling.  While they can certainly change the names on the back of the jerseys, just getting different replacement level players probably isn't going to turn us into a good team.

[USAFChief]

 

Does Odorizzi not have a breaking ball?

Yes.

[USAFChief]

 

My final rejoinder.  Nick Gordon has a .639 OPS at AAA.  Lamonte Wade is at .703.  Both are worse than Jake Cave's .711 in MLB.  Maybe they started in AA because the FO didn't think they were quite ready for AAA yet.

 

I was referring to only the lineup, but since you bring him up, Gonsalves has a 4.56 ERA, 1.42 WHIP, and is walking more than 6 batters per 9.

 

I agree with you on the bullpen, I want Moya/Curtiss/Reed up yesterday, but when you struggle to score more than 2 runs, a great bullpen isn't going to move the needle a ton.

 

The front office has been forced to turn to replacement players due to everyone not named Ed or Jose struggling.  While they can certainly change the names on the back of the jerseys, just getting different replacement level players probably isn't going to turn us into a good team.

Don't start with Robbie Grossman and Ryan LaMarre as your 4/5 outfielders.

 

etc etc etc

[Aggies7]

Wow

[Cap'n Piranha]

 

Don't start with Robbie Grossman and Ryan LaMarre as your 4/5 outfielders.

 

etc etc etc

 

Robbie Grossman is 28, and had a .741 OPS last year; .828 in 2016.  He has a solid OBP skill.  Perfectly acceptable for a guy you don't expect to play a ton, given that the plan was to let Rosario/Buxton/Kepler start every day.  It's hard to get quality veterans to agree to be fourth outfielders.

[USAFChief]

Provus called that HR before Morrison stepped to the plate.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Slo-Mo!

[Mike Sixel]

 

Robbie Grossman is 28, and had a .741 OPS last year; .828 in 2016.  He has a solid OBP skill.  Perfectly acceptable for a guy you don't expect to play a ton, given that the plan was to let Rosario/Buxton/Kepler start every day.  It's hard to get quality veterans to agree to be fourth outfielders.

 

Let's not forget his defense. He is a zero WAR player....with no future other than 5th OF, maybe. the literal definition of "replaceable",

[FunnyPenguin]

That was a true bomb, like to see more of that

[wsnydes]

 

Robbie Grossman is 28, and had a .741 OPS last year; .828 in 2016.  He has a solid OBP skill.  Perfectly acceptable for a guy you don't expect to play a ton, given that the plan was to let Rosario/Buxton/Kepler start every day.  It's hard to get quality veterans to agree to be fourth outfielders.

Except Grossman should have only been relied upon as a DH, not a 4th outfielder.  Rosario/Buxton/Kepler will need days off.  Plus, Buxton has yet to prove that he can remain healthy for an entire season.  the 4th outfielder was is kind of a key bench role on this squad and it should be filled by someone that can actually play the outfield competently.  

[USAFChief]

 

 

Robbie Grossman is 28, and had a .741 OPS last year; .828 in 2016.  He has a solid OBP skill.  Perfectly acceptable for a guy you don't expect to play a ton, given that the plan was to let Rosario/Buxton/Kepler start every day.  It's hard to get quality veterans to agree to be fourth outfielders.

I disagree on Grossman, he drew some walks two years ago, but has little actual bat and really shouldn't be in the OF. As a 5th/6th OFer? OK. Not as the primary backup. 

 

And I'll state the obvious: If the plan was "to let Rosario/Buxton/Kepler start every day" then that's a pretty bad plan.

 

Players get hurt. Players need a day off occasionally. Both Kepler and Rosario and Kepler looked like guys who would benefit from reduced exposure to LH pitching (and I don't really buy the idea that's been disproven.)

 

 

[Cap'n Piranha]

 

Assuming Mauer would be healthy seems like a really bad idea to me......and they signed Morrison to replace him, they made that decision.

 

He played 158 games in 2015, 134 in 2016, and 141 last year.  He plays a physically non-demanding position now, and gets frequent DH days.  It seems perfectly reasonable to assume Mauer would be more-or-less as likely to remain healthy as any other player.

 

Morrison has a career .753 OPS, and looked perhaps like he was peaking later in his career.  We were all excited for Morrison, especially at $6M.  Blaming the FO for Morrison is hindsight at its finest.  I'll blame them if they decide to bring him back next year.

[Mike Sixel]

 

He played 158 games in 2015, 134 in 2016, and 141 last year.  He plays a physically non-demanding position now, and gets frequent DH days.  It seems perfectly reasonable to assume Mauer would be more-or-less as likely to remain healthy as any other player.

 

Morrison has a career .753 OPS, and looked perhaps like he was peaking later in his career.  We were all excited for Morrison, especially at $6M.  Blaming the FO for Morrison is hindsight at its finest.  I'll blame them if they decide to bring him back next year.

 

I'm not blaming them....but at some point you have to be right about a FA signing to be considered good at your job, even if they all look good when they happen.....and I don't think I was "excited" at all. I'm pretty sure a lot of people were more "well, it's not a lot of money and he might be good", but I don't recall much excitement.

 

Look at all the moves, and see if there are more good than bad (not draft picks, the scouting director does those).

[FunnyPenguin]

You just can't make this stuff up

[Mike Sixel]

sigh. 

[VATwinsFan]

sigh.

 

. What you said.

[Cap'n Piranha]

 

I disagree on Grossman, he drew some walks two years ago, but has little actual bat and really shouldn't be in the OF. As a 5th/6th OFer? OK. Not as the primary backup. 

 

And I'll state the obvious: If the plan was "to let Rosario/Buxton/Kepler start every day" then that's a pretty bad plan.

 

Players get hurt. Players need a day off occasionally. Both Kepler and Rosario and Kepler looked like guys who would benefit from reduced exposure to LH pitching (and I don't really buy the idea that's been disproven.)

 

Robbie had 0.8 WAR two years ago, and 0.5 last year.  He definitely did not look like a replacement player prior to this year.  I acknowledge that players get hurt--that's why the FO signed LaMarre to go along with Granite--with the DL now at 10 days, if one of those guys get hurt, you bring them up for defense.

 

The greater point is that it is hard to find good players.  There are 90 starting outfielders in MLB--last year only 48 outfielders had a positive WAR.  By that definition, Grossman was better than the SECOND best outfielder for 12 teams.  There are more positive WAR outfielders this year, but it's still only 63, which means essentially every team is trotting out a sub-replacement level outfielder every day.

 

Also, I'm not sure what about Kepler's .969 OPS against lefties suggests he hasn't figured something out.

[Circus Boy]

Is there a stat that measures efficiency in scoring from third base with less than two outs? If so, I predict we're at the MLB bottom.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Robbie had 0.8 WAR two years ago, and 0.5 last year.  He definitely did not look like a replacement player prior to this year.  I acknowledge that players get hurt--that's why the FO signed LaMarre to go along with Granite--with the DL now at 10 days, if one of those guys get hurt, you bring them up for defense.

 

The greater point is that it is hard to find good players.  There are 90 starting outfielders in MLB--last year only 48 outfielders had a positive WAR.  By that definition, Grossman was better than the SECOND best outfielder for 12 teams.  There are more positive WAR outfielders this year, but it's still only 63, which means essentially every team is trotting out a sub-replacement level outfielder every day.

 

Also, I'm not sure what about Kepler's .969 OPS against lefties suggests he hasn't figured something out.

 

those are literally replacement level WAR.....

 

116 OF had positive WAR last year, btw....if you filter on 200 ABs.....

[Cap'n Piranha]

 

I'm not blaming them....but at some point you have to be right about a FA signing to be considered good at your job, even if they all look good when they happen.....and I don't think I was "excited" at all. I'm pretty sure a lot of people were more "well, it's not a lot of money and he might be good", but I don't recall much excitement.

 

Look at all the moves, and see if there are more good than bad (not draft picks, the scouting director does those).

 

Lance Lynn looks decent right now, Rodney has been great.  Reed looked real good until Molitor overworked him.  The FO has had essentially one FA class, given that 103 loss teams (which is what they inherited) generally don't try and add a bunch of FA's.  Let's assume that the FO has $50M or so to play with this offseason--that's where I'm going to judge them.  No good FA's this offseason, and I will gladly agree to your assertion that the FO is not doing its job.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Lance Lynn looks decent right now, Rodney has been great.  Reed looked real good until Molitor overworked him.  The FO has had essentially one FA class, given that 103 loss teams (which is what they inherited) generally don't try and add a bunch of FA's.  Let's assume that the FO has $50M or so to play with this offseason--that's where I'm going to judge them.  No good FA's this offseason, and I will gladly agree to your assertion that the FO is not doing its job.

 

very fair, even if we disagree on year 1, very fair.

 

edit: Lynn is here for 1 year, so he didn't fix anything, but fair.

[Cap'n Piranha]

 

those are literally replacement level WAR.....

 

116 OF had positive WAR last year, btw....if you filter on 200 ABs.....

 

That's fair!  I did that, and it turns out Robbie Grossman was 99th in WAR--he was a top 10 4th outfielder.

[S.]

Man, Wilson is a butcher at all aspects of the game.

[S.]

Well, that was a half assed run to first. If Adrianza didn't hurt himself there, there is no excuse to be lollygagging up the line. 

[Jerr]

Everybody hold your breath.........

 

[Mike Sixel]

1 run.....wow. Offensive, or something.

[wsnydes]

 

1 run.....wow. Offensive, or something.

What is that, 2 runs in the last 24 innings?  That's not too bad against a squad with such pitching prowess as the White Sox!  

[gocgo]

The experience begins....and continues....and continues....and ends.