Mensa guy's radical ideas for changing baseball.

[PseudoSABR]

Thought this article  was interesting.  His ideas include mandating relief pitchers face at least three batters, centering the pitching rubber, best team chooses their playoff opponent, among others. 

[TheLeviathan]

I really think baseball should have bi-monthly double header Saturdays and trim the schedule by nearly two weeks.

 

I also dig the “unalignment” idea.

[Thrylos]

If it ain't broke...

[TheLeviathan]

If it ain't broke...

Demographic, attendance, and popularity trends indicate that it may be in trouble soon. Yeah, your car is running, but the check engine light is on.

[gunnarthor]

 

Demographic, attendance, and popularity trends indicate that it may be in trouble soon. Yeah, your car is running, but the check engine light is on.

I'm not sure you're really onto anything. Baseball has always been a sport that was too boring for young people. It was the same when I was a kid. People grow into the sport. Baseball attendance is still great and of the major sports, they somehow seem to be the best at using the internet and social media for other revenue streams. They could use some improvement in marketing - no one today rivals the popularity that Jeter or Ichiro used to have, for example, but the on-field product is pretty good right now. 

 

[Vanimal46]

I'm not sure you're really onto anything. Baseball has always been a sport that was too boring for young people. It was the same when I was a kid. People grow into the sport. Baseball attendance is still great and of the major sports, they somehow seem to be the best at using the internet and social media for other revenue streams. They could use some improvement in marketing - no one today rivals the popularity that Jeter or Ichiro used to have, for example, but the on-field product is pretty good right now.

MLB certainly needs to market their young stars better. Mike Trout may end up being the best player in generations, and I know nothing about him personally.

 

On the other hand, I don't watch basketball yet I know LeBron's political/social stances, his kid is also really good at basketball, and who his buddies are in the NBA.

[TheLeviathan]

I'm not sure you're really onto anything. Baseball has always been a sport that was too boring for young people. It was the same when I was a kid. People grow into the sport. Baseball attendance is still great and of the major sports, they somehow seem to be the best at using the internet and social media for other revenue streams. They could use some improvement in marketing - no one today rivals the popularity that Jeter or Ichiro used to have, for example, but the on-field product is pretty good right now.

 

The on-field product is constantly under attack in and out of baseball. The 50 year old white guy who compromises the average baseball fan grew up in a very different sports era. Waiting for a festering problem to become a full blown crisis is about the worst possible idea.

 

I get not wanting to make radical changes. Pretending the long term health of the sport is fine is pretty head-in-the-sand.

[TheLeviathan]

Also, if you want some anecdotes about how the 7-15 year old sports fan views baseball versus football or basketball....i could really horrify you. And those anecdotes align with some data about the popularities of the sports relative to each other.

[Vanimal46]

Also, if you want some anecdotes about how the 7-15 year old sports fan views baseball versus football or basketball....i could really horrify you. And those anecdotes align with some data about the popularities of the sports relative to each other.

I wonder if that's a result of watching ESPN? Those are the sports that network discusses ad nauseum.

[gunnarthor]

 

Also, if you want some anecdotes about how the 7-15 year old sports fan views baseball versus football or basketball....i could really horrify you. And those anecdotes align with some data about the popularities of the sports relative to each other.

I don't think the 7-15 year old sports today fan would be much different than the 7-15 year old sports fan who grew up in the 80s. 

 

MLB could do some tinkering - the three outcomes baseball is boring - but, generally, of the four major sports, it's the one I'm most comfortable saying will still exist in 50 years.

[bird]

 

If it ain't broke...

 

 

Maybe, maybe not. If you put a frog in luke warm water and turn on the burner....

[TheLeviathan]

I wonder if that's a result of watching ESPN? Those are the sports that network discusses ad nauseum.

My avid kid sports fans could name 50 NFL or NBA teams before they could name 5 MLB teams. Not an exaggeration.

 

ESPN may be hyping those leagues for the much the same reasons I am concerned about baseball. They know where their future bread gets buttered.

[TheLeviathan]

I don't think the 7-15 year old sports today fan would be much different than the 7-15 year old sports fan who grew up in the 80s. 

 

MLB could do some tinkering - the three outcomes baseball is boring - but, generally, of the four major sports, it's the one I'm most comfortable saying will still exist in 50 years.

They are much different. That's the part you aren't seeing.

[Vanimal46]

My avid kid sports fans could name 50 NFL or NBA teams before they could name 5 MLB teams. Not an exaggeration.

 

ESPN may be hyping those leagues for the much the same reasons I am concerned about baseball. They know where their future bread gets buttered.

And they spent billions of dollars in TV broadcast rights for NFL and NBA. But yes, I agree that kids today find baseball boring and the other sports more entertaining.

 

NBA knows how to market their players to casual sports fans. The NFL is a giant cluster bleep most of the time but still the king of sports in America.

 

Baseball has fun young stars, but fails to market them to young kids.

[TheLeviathan]

Like the article I'm not sure player marketing matters. Kids don't have any recognition or buy-in with the league.

 

Half the Arizona kids in my classroom didn't even recognize the Diamondback logo. All but five of them didn't even know a single player on the Diamondbacks. and those five only knew Goldschmidt and had no idea what position he played. Last year when they were in the wild card playoff they had no idea playoff game was going on that night all they could talk about was the Cardinals.

 

ESPN has a lot of money in baseball too, but where would you emphasize your time? On the diverse 15-40 market or the 50+, all white dudes?

 

Not sure the answer requires much thought.

[KirbyDome89]

 

I wonder if that's a result of watching ESPN? Those are the sports that network discusses ad nauseum.

Baseball is in full swing and the NBA finals were still going on but a recent "top story," detailed how Brady and Gronkowski skipped mini camp to train on their own. I tend to avoid ESPN as much as I can (I'm partial to Russillo's podcast and I like to catch SVP late night every so often) but you're spot on, the NFL is shoved down our collective throat all year long. I probably get more tilted about it than I should, but I really don't understand how the fatigue factor hasn't set in for more people.  

[mickeymental]

for what it's worth, espn's 2018 world fame top 100 includes zero baseball players. zero. 

 

eight basketballers make the list -- three in the top 10 (lbj, durant, curry) and all eight among the top 36. brady, at 38, is the only football player.

 

http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/page/WorldFame/espn-world-fame-100-2018

[Mike Sixel]

 

If it ain't broke...

 

perhaps the worst advice ever for running a business. If you aren't trying to be better every day, you aren't trying.

 

I've been thinking about starting a series of articles called:

 

Off the Wall 

(not so?) Crazy Ideas for Baseball

 

stuff like:

every team in the playoffs, here's how

Eliminate the draft

Universal DH, for any position you want

The 2 starter rotation

etc....

[gunnarthor]

 

They are much different. That's the part you aren't seeing.

Do you have a source for that or is it just what you're seeing? Attendance for baseball and football have dropped roughly the same as people don't go to games as much anymore.

 

But we've heard "baseball is dying" stories for several generations now.

[Vanimal46]

for what it's worth, espn's 2018 world fame top 100 includes zero baseball players. zero.

 

eight basketballers make the list -- three in the top 10 (lbj, durant, curry) and all eight among the top 36. brady, at 38, is the only football player.

 

http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/page/WorldFame/espn-world-fame-100-2018

Sad, really.... We may know more about Babe Ruth than Mike Trout when it's all said and done.

[Platoon]

I am surprised no one has mentioned soccer, especially when discussing the long term future. I wouldn't walk across my living room to watch soccer, but it's growing like crazy I think baseball will outlive the NFL. But I don't think the NFL will outlive soccer. Trying to deal with the head injuries will change the game significantly. I totally agree with gunnarthor, 3 outcomes baseball is boring. Working pitch counts is boring. And shifts are frustrating. That said I totally understand the shifts for the purposes of competition. . But watching guys flail away trying to hit HR's is simply a step above HR Derby. UGH. It would be a shame, and ironic, if metrics so improved the evaluations of players values and processes, and at the same time ruined the most interesting parts of the sport. HR's are exciting when the big guys hit them, you look for that. But when 5' 10" IF are constantly jacking for one, it starts to resemble slow pitch. And for heavens sake, solve the endless 3-2 counts. If you watch a game on TiVo you can almost skip the first 4 pitches of an AB. Sheesh!

[zenser]

Growing up, we didn't have cable/dish until I was in late high school.  I remember love going to a hotel or somewhere where they had ESPN so i could watch highlights on Sportscenter or Baseball tonight.  I rarely watch ESPN now and I couldn't tell you if Baseball Tonight was still on.  The few times I have watched Sportscenter recently, baseball was hardly, if at all, mentioned.  I don't care what LeBron wore to the arena before the game.  I don't care what Stephen A Smith says.  Just put some more baseball new/highlights/stories on and let the younger generation get exposed to it. 

[Thrylos]

 

Demographic, attendance, and popularity trends indicate that it may be in trouble soon. Yeah, your car is running, but the check engine light is on.

 

What check engine light?  Imaginary? 

 

Fact:  MLB revenue by year:   Look at the rates of growth from 2001-2009 and 2010-2017.   This is a business in growth.

 

[Thrylos]

 

perhaps the worst advice ever for running a business. If you aren't trying to be better every day, you aren't trying.

 

 

I totally agree.  However you really need to figure out what better really looks like from the perspective of your customer.  Got to make changes to improve the experience of your customer and solve his/her problems and speak to their needs, not to develop products for products' sake or make change for change's sake.

 

I'd love MLB to go out there and gather data from customers (and they have plenty in their CRM, start with the mlb.tv subscribers) about what they want to see in the game.  Go poll 50,000 people and publish the responses.  If a particular change has more than 75% support, they should implement them.

 

Also, they should go to prospectives who are not customers and ask what it will take to make them customers.  Then take the higher answers and pass them through the group of customers.  If 75% + of them say ok, implement it.

 

That's how businesses make successful change.   Data shows (up there) that baseball is a successful growing business.  Unless particular changes will not alienate most of your customers you don't need to make changes.

 

 

 

[Thrylos]

Here is this other piece of data also:

 

2017 

Total attendance:

MLB
72,678,797

NBA
21,972,129
NHL
21,501,156
NFL
17,510,312

 

 

I wonder which league has the least problem here...

[Vanimal46]

Posting raw attendance numbers is nonsense.

 

162 games in MLB

82 for NHL/NBA

16 for NFL

[TheLeviathan]

Posting raw attendance numbers is nonsense.

162 games in MLB

82 for NHL/NBA

16 for NFL

Correct. Revenue numbers are good right now, but that isn't the issue.

 

The issue is that strictly white males, most of whom are over 50 are your paying customers. And those younger are checked out.

 

Any sane business person is going to see huge red flags.

[TheLeviathan]

Do you have a source for that or is it just what you're seeing? Attendance for baseball and football have dropped roughly the same as people don't go to games as much anymore.

 

But we've heard "baseball is dying" stories for several generations now.

According to Nelson the baseball audience was 41% composed of 55+ aged people in 2007, now it's 55%.

 

This compiles the issues well. Even the commissioner admits the problem.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/nationals/baseballs-trouble-with-the-youth-curve--and-what-that-means-for-the-game/2015/04/05/2da36dca-d7e8-11e4-8103-fa84725dbf9d_story.html?utm_term=.81a38daf005b

[Platoon]

Sad, really.... We may know more about Babe Ruth than Mike Trout when it's all said and done.

That's because Babe Ruth would have never went 1-12 against the Twins

[mikelink45]

As a man in his seventies I will not get into the 7 - 15 debate except to say I have five grandchildren in that age group and none of them are interested in baseball - none, not a bit.  They like LaCrosse, Soccer, NFL, fishing, and running.  And as much as they like their granddad it does not affect their choices.

 

What I can say is that I have been a baseball fan from grade school and the K, BB, HR era is boring.  It is like being forced to eat ice cream for all three meals for a month.  Too much of a good thing. People wanted HRs, but they do not want a season long HR derby.

 

Sure pitching duels can be boring - especially if they last for 3 1/2 hours.

 

I like some of these ideas - the fan gifts like the one that eliminates the out when a foot twitches and leaves the bag for a minute.   I remember when I was young and the ball park was filled with transistor radios.  I always wanted the PA to give me more. 

 

I love making the relief pitcher have to get three outs - my belief (in one of my blogs) is that we should limit the game to three pitchers for each team for each game.  Finally some strategy and not the wasted two visits, the trip in, and the 8 warm up pitches.  They just got done warming up!  How about making relief pitchers come in to start innings and not break up the suspense.  

 

Or how about putting a time limit on the game - play as many innings as you can for 2 1/2 hours? 

 

I know - some of you will say - don't fix it if it ain't broken.  But right now this game is traveling down a rocky road without a spare.  It is the only sport I follow and I find so few others who are committed to the game.  This site is so important because the seam heads can talk to each other and even debate without rancor - I hope.

 

But 16 NFL games catch so much attention and the NBA and NHL play a long and tedious set of warmup games to eliminate half their league and begin the real season called the playoffs.  I do not want either of those things for our sport.  No more in the playoffs.  However, while I do not want 16 games I do want 154.  We do not need those last 8 - what makes 162 the right number?  Of course I am not speaking for the owners.  I do not care about them, I am thinking of what I like.  I want the world series to be played without snow.