General politics

[TheLeviathan]

 

Ya, it cuts it by almost exactly 40% (just went to a site to check).

 

How does it change current monthly payments and pay-off period?

[Badsmerf]

I still don't see that as the end to a means. It helps (Helps, not fixes) the now, and still doesn't fix anything going forward.

 

I think more sweeping policy change can start correcting the burden, and change how we lend money, how much money is lent, and who it is lent to.

 

I have 4 smart kids now, and hope the insurmountable weight of student loan debt is lighter by the time they are choosing schools.

[TheLeviathan]

 

I still don't see that as the end to a means. It helps (Helps, not fixes) the now, and still doesn't fix anything going forward.

I think more sweeping policy change can start correcting the burden, and change how we lend money, how much money is lent, and who it is lent to.

I have 4 smart kids now, and hope the insurmountable weight of student loan debt is lighter by the time they are choosing schools.

 

100%, I want nothing even approaching a bailout without fundamental changes.  I want the loan program eliminated for all but a tiny fraction of people who need it the most.  I want tight regulations on the cost of colleges.  I want free college for trade schools and other options that keep their prices low.

 

One without the other is not a solution either IMO.  We start by hammering universities for their predatory behavior and set a new normal.  Then we right the wrongs.

[Mike Sixel]

 

How does it change current monthly payments and pay-off period?

 

those are a trade off.....if you pay the same amount, you pay off 40% faster, about.....

 

if you want to pay over the same period, well, I didn't look that up, but it's not hard to find calculators. But, I'd guess around 25% or maybe 30% less owed per year, if they recalculate payments, but keep the same term.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

I still don't see that as the end to a means. It helps (Helps, not fixes) the now, and still doesn't fix anything going forward.

To be clear, I am wholly against any kind of forgiveness without some stern action taken to slap the entire system around and change pretty much everything about how we pay for upper education.

[TheLeviathan]

 

those are a trade off.....if you pay the same amount, you pay off 40% faster, about.....

 

if you want to pay over the same period, well, I didn't look that up, but it's not hard to find calculators. But, I'd guess around 25% or maybe 30% less owed per year, if they recalculate payments, but keep the same term.

 

For those people for whom paying off the loans doesn't even look possible, does 40% of impossible make it better?

 

And to use Smerf's example, he's save about $300 a month and pay it off when he's 50 (or whatever).  That's better....but I guess I'm not a fan of half-measures.

 

I won't let some stupidity stop me from doing something that's right for a LOT of people.

[Mike Sixel]

 

For those people for whom paying off the loans doesn't even look possible, does 40% of impossible make it better?

 

And to use Smerf's example, he's save about $300 a month and pay it off when he's 50 (or whatever).  That's better....but I guess I'm not a fan of half-measures.

 

I won't let some stupidity stop me from doing something that's right for a LOT of people.

 

I'm not arguing for or against this, merely pointing out the argument it cuts terms by almost nothing was not factual at all.

[biggentleben]

So I come from a different angle on this. I was someone who came in with a load of freshman scholarships and a promise from coaches that after I walked on, there would be a scholarship for me. Well, if you think it's bad for the scholarship player who has limited medical coverage on something that ends his/her sports career, but they still technically do have a contract that unless they violated it by doing something egregious to cause the injury, the school has to honor for tuition, just imagine what it's like for the thousands of non-scholarship athletes who are injured and can no longer play.

 

I'd put in 20 credit hour terms for a year, nearly impossibly tanked my GPA, and ended up ignoring the signs of my eye issues because of football. In the end, not a single flip was given about that for me, but if I'd have tried to even transfer to a more local school, the damage to my GPA by that point would have screwed me. I was much better off finding any window I could for work study or other such things in college to get through at the U because moving on from there would cost me even more than staying. That led to plenty of loans.

 

Of course, then I took my marketing degree, graduated soon after 9/11, about the worst time to graduate with such a degree, and examined programs out there that offered loan forgiveness for 10 years of social work. Only, as was recently pointed out by a few places that have fact-checked the policy since it came to graduation, less than 0.5% of all those who should be eligible were actually getting processed and having their loans forgiven by the program due to a whole host of hang-ups that were not part of the program until the point that funds needed to be distributed. I've got roughly 11 years of social work that would be eligible. I've not even attempted to apply at this point.

 

So, even when life dealt you a turd sandwich, and you somehow found the mustard and lettuce enough to handle it, the government takes away the bread. That's the real crux of this whole issue.

[biggentleben]

 

I figured this wouldn't need to be explained, but I was wrong

 

There seems to be no distinciton made with regard to intent or modus operandi

 

...or perceived MO. Or truth. Perhaps there's a reason that the U.S. is one of the only friends that places like Saudi Arabia and Israel have in the world sphere. No one would dare connect that would they, though?

[Badsmerf]

So after I posted that, I said to myself they don't have to be mutually exclusive... I think we're all in favor of changing the system. The disagreement is what we do to help lighten the load on the current debt facing us.

 

My thoughts on this topic are ways we can get the most from our investments. Incentives for jobs that require degrees and benefit the public. Like loan forgiveness for teachers, social workers, government attorneys, doctors that participate in the (hypothetical) government run healthcare etc. Make those jobs compete with the private sector to attract better talent and ease student loans for those that are providing value to all.

 

There are so many things that can be done, we just need it to be a priority. Get both bases riled up about it and hopefully something changes.

[TheLeviathan]

I'm not arguing for or against this, merely pointing out the argument it cuts terms by almost nothing was not factual at all.

True, my nothing statement was hyperbole. It is merely a patch after we already hit the iceberg IMO.

[biggentleben]

 

So after I posted that, I said to myself they don't have to be mutually exclusive... I think we're all in favor of changing the system. The disagreement is what we do to help lighten the load on the current debt facing us.

My thoughts on this topic are ways we can get the most from our investments. Incentives for jobs that require degrees and benefit the public. Like loan forgiveness for teachers, social workers, government attorneys, doctors that participate in the (hypothetical) government run healthcare etc. Make those jobs compete with the private sector to attract better talent and ease student loans for those that are providing value to all.

There are so many things that can be done, we just need it to be a priority. Get both bases riled up about it and hopefully something changes.

 

...but then it needs to be funded correctly by those in power for the decades of time that it will typically cover.

[TheLeviathan]

...but then it needs to be funded correctly by those in power for the decades of time that it will typically cover.

And therein lies the rub, without a one time solution you leave the problem to fester while you hope future administrations do right by it.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Another solution is to make all loans interest-free starting today. If you have a $100k   loan (and the average debt leaving school is around $40k as of 2016) at 5.5% interest, using a 20 year schedule, the difference in payment between interest and no-interest is $690/mo versus $420/mo.

 

Lots of ways to approach this problem while keeping the taxpayer bill moderately reasonable.

 

Besides, I think we can all agree that the government should not be profiting from education (and the interest rate is well over the inflationary rate so, yes, they are definitely profiting).

[Mike Sixel]

 

Another solution is to make all loans interest-free starting today. If you have a $100k   loan (and the average debt leaving school is around $40k as of 2016) at 5.5% interest, using a 20 year schedule, the difference in payment between interest and no-interest is $690/mo versus $420/mo.

 

Lots of ways to approach this problem while keeping the taxpayer bill moderately reasonable.

 

Besides, I think we can all agree that the government should not be profiting from education (and the interest rate is well over the inflationary rate so, yes, they are definitely profiting).

 

Including private loans? Because most students have both......

 

Maybe the government buys all private loans?

 

I could get behind this for everyone, with additional relief for teachers (and others, as pointed out above).

[biggentleben]

 

And therein lies the rub, without a one time solution you leave the problem to fester while you hope future administrations do right by it.

 

...and frankly, I had little issue with putting in the decade. I gained an incredible amount from doing the work I did. However, I took on a career path, knowing that I would be incredibly underpaid, because there was to be a light at the end of that tunnel. Much like many of our teachers, who go in, expecting tremendous healthcare and retirement benefits, but now due to the destruction of unions, those same teachers are expected to do their job for a minimal raise over previous employment and substantially worse benefits once their union is broken.

 

My grandfather was not a learned man. He had an 8th grade education and worked his entire life hard to compensate for it, encouraging all of his grandchildren to study hard and put in the time in the classroom needed to have a real chance in life. However, one thing he was adamant about that went against many of his right-leaning beliefs otherwise was the need to ensure low-level healthcare workers, social workers, and teachers were all very well-compensated. Near the end of his life, he once talked with me as he discussed the pay disparity between the Twin Cities and South Dakota for my wife (fiance at the time) in teaching. He stated that in those jobs, we want the absolute best of our society, right alongside those who are the doctors, we want the best to become teachers and nurses and counselors. Those jobs are so critical for the long-term health of the society that if they're neglected, it won't take long to see elderly mistreated, our children falling behind dramatically in education, and our standard of life decreasing.

 

He's not even been gone 5 years, but it's as if he was writing a near-future playbook rather than a long-term warning...

[TheLeviathan]

Same boat Ben, I have actually applied for the 10 year forgiveness.  I don't expect to see a dime of it despite dedicating my life to helping others.

 

I have counted on a promise to do right by me over the length of my loans that will go unfulfilled.  Zero interest, 30k, etc......these all sound like things easily pulled out from under people in the name of cost cutting.  Meanwhile, the problem was never solved and we're back at square one again.

[PseudoSABR]

Court rules Sandy Hook families can sue gunmaker over rifle used in shooting

[ewen21]

 

...or perceived MO. Or truth. Perhaps there's a reason that the U.S. is one of the only friends that places like Saudi Arabia and Israel have in the world sphere. No one would dare connect that would they, though?

Not sure what you are trying to say now, but your original assertion that Israel might indeed target American citizens is a new one along the lines of an Alex Jones conspiracy theory rant.  TO even hint that MAYBE this is happening really is astounding.  Do you also think 9-11 was an inside job and that Sandy Hook was orchestrated by the government?  

 

Israel NEEDS us.  Name me one Israeli terror cell that ever had it's sights on Americans/the "American way of life".  Don't bother.  You can't

 

If anyone is asking me to pick one country out of the Middle East to have an alliance with that would Israel 1,000 times out of a 1,000

[PseudoSABR]

 

  Israel NEEDS us. 

Do they need us any more than, say, any NATO country? 

[TheLeviathan]

 

Do they need us any more than, say, any NATO country? 

 

I think the answer to that is yes.  

 

Our other NATO allies can rely on each other, Israel has a tenuous relationship with nearly everyone.  (And not, frequently, for valid reasons)

[PseudoSABR]

 

I think the answer to that is yes.  

 

Our other NATO allies can rely on each other, Israel has a tenuous relationship with nearly everyone.  (And not, frequently, for valid reasons)

In a way, we are enabling that tenuous relationship, including settlement.  I don't mind having a relationship with Israel including both monetary and military aid, but that should come with the price of not shaking the hornet's nest that is the middle east.

[TheLeviathan]

 

In a way, we are enabling that tenuous relationship, including settlement.  I don't mind having a relationship with Israel including both monetary and military aid, but that should come with the price of not shaking the hornet's nest that is the middle east.

 

Well, let me know when you find that alternate reality......

[ewen21]

 

Do they need us any more than, say, any NATO country? 

 

I would say they rely on us more than they do all the other NATO countries combined

[Mr. Brooks]

Do they need us any more than, say, any NATO country?

Are there any other NATO countries with a neighbor that has vowed to erase them from the planet?

[TheLeviathan]

I think that "neighbor" needs to be plural.  And that's a good point to add.

[PseudoSABR]

 

Well, let me know when you find that alternate reality......

So in your irl reality, we just let Israel do whatever it wants, and keep giving our support?

[PseudoSABR]

 

Are there any other NATO countries with a neighbor that has vowed to erase them from the planet?

Maybe not, but Russia, of course, is their major threat, and they don't make their intentions known.  Ukraine has a good case, but isn't a NATO nation, of course.

 

The carve out of Israel after WWII just seems so insane to me.  And it's a price, we'll keep paying I guess for perpetuity...

[TheLeviathan]

 

So in your irl reality, we just let Israel do whatever it wants, and keep giving our support?

 

No, I'm saying we could rain delicious muffins on the middle east and we'd still "shake the hornet's nest"

 

That's simply a non-realistic bar. It's unfortunate, but nevertheless a reality.

[biggentleben]

 

Not sure what you are trying to say now, but your original assertion that Israel might indeed target American citizens is a new one along the lines of an Alex Jones conspiracy theory rant.  TO even hint that MAYBE this is happening really is astounding.  Do you also think 9-11 was an inside job and that Sandy Hook was orchestrated by the government?  

 

Israel NEEDS us.  Name me one Israeli terror cell that ever had it's sights on Americans/the "American way of life".  Don't bother.  You can't

 

If anyone is asking me to pick one country out of the Middle East to have an alliance with that would Israel 1,000 times out of a 1,000

 

Those sorts of comments can just have you go F straight off.

 

I did not say Israel as a government targeted Americans. Israelis at the border have. Believe it or not, not every act by every person in a country speaks for the entire belief set and behavior of that entire country. I can put that separation there. Apparently, that is more difficult on the other side of this conversation.