General politics

[TheLeviathan]

Republicans argue more people voting is unpatriotic.

 

Yup, sounds about right.

[PseudoSABR]

 

Speaking of ol Mitch, at least now they're admitting it:

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell doesn’t think Election Day should be a federal holiday because that would give Democrats too much power.

McConnell took to the Senate floor Wednesday to rail against HR 1, the sweeping anti-corruption proposal House Democrats have put forward as their first bill in the majority. Among many other measures, it proposes making Election Day a federal holiday and encourages private sector businesses to do the same.

McConnell, who calls the bill the “Democratic Politician Protection Act,” sees that as a “power grab.”

“Just what America needs, another paid holiday and a bunch of government workers being paid to go out and work ... [on Democratic] campaigns,” he snarked on the Senate floor. “This is the Democrat plan to restore democracy? ... A power grab.”

Right.  This is what Mike Green is responding too.  If making it easier to vote is a power grab; conversely, making it harder to vote is one too.  That abject, translucent self-interest from Senator Turtle is none too surprising these days. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Republicans argue more people voting is unpatriotic.

 

Yup, sounds about right.

Fascinating to think about how the party got here over the past three decades. I don't understand how so many fail to see they have become decidedly anti-democratic. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Right.  This is what Mike Green is responding too.  If making it easier to vote is a power grab; conversely, making it harder to vote is one too.  That abject, translucent self-interest from Senator Turtle is none too surprising these days. 

The history books will not be kind to Gingrich and McConnell.

[Vanimal46]

Green New Deal... Your thoughts?

[PseudoSABR]

 

Green New Deal... Your thoughts?

Good slogan.  But it seems rather aspirational in its current form.  Any bill that's set to take on climate change will need some real teeth, in particular, enforcement mechanisms that the government will actually use.

[ashbury]

I haven't looked at the details yet. But the meta-idea of discussing big ideas, well in advance of the next major election cycle, is a healthy one. Even if it means that the opposition will shoot down any unworkable aspects and try to pin them on the people suggesting them, while simultaneously adopting some portion of it and saying "well yes, of course" by the time the election actually rolls around. It's a much better way of effecting economic change than the top-down approach, adopted most recently but not uniquely by Bernie Sanders in 2016. You have to get buy-in from the electorate, or else they will turn you out and undo/subvert your accomplishments a short 2 years later when your legislation goes beyond your cautious rhetoric (or vice versa). The Tea Party eventually ushering in the Trump Era is an example of how it can succeed, as well as an example of the perhaps unexpected ways it can turn out.

[Vanimal46]

Aspirational is probably the best way to describe it. The bill has good intentions, but filled with unrealistic ideas IMO.

[Vanimal46]

Also, I had a general opinion about the direction Democrats are going in 2020... It's clear that every candidate is going with the WOKE strategy taking the moral high ground for injustice, inequality, racism, etc. I have a bad feeling they're going to be put in a box by Republicans with this strategy...

 

It's already not looking good with the situation in Virginia... If there is a zero tolerance policy going forward for the party, everyone involved needs to resign immediately. Yet the people involved have no intention of stepping down and hoping they can be forgiven over time... You can't have it both ways.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Also, I had a general opinion about the direction Democrats are going in 2020... It's clear that every candidate is going with the WOKE strategy taking the moral high ground for injustice, inequality, racism, etc. I have a bad feeling they're going to be put in a box by Republicans with this strategy...

It's already not looking good with the situation in Virginia... If there is a zero tolerance policy going forward for the party, everyone involved needs to resign immediately. Yet the people involved have no intention of stepping down and hoping they can be forgiven over time... You can't have it both ways.

 

To their credit, many of the people running right now are more pragmatic and centric than that.  But I agree, as much as some on the left want them to go full left in their rhetoric, they are best not to do that.  Stay moderate and centric and then use your election wins to move policy left.  If you put your rhetoric before your election wins, you'll never get to change policy.

[Mike Sixel]

The GOP pushed their policy for decades, as a long term play. Those that believe in healthcare should do the same. People need to hear about a change this big for a long time to embrace it.

[TheLeviathan]

 

The GOP pushed their policy for decades, as a long term play. Those that believe in healthcare should do the same. People need to hear about a change this big for a long time to embrace it.

 

They pushed subtly.  The left is not as good at that.

 

I agree though, keep talking about universal healthcare.  And I'm ok with making it a major platform, but it's not what you talk about, it's how you talk about it.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

To their credit, many of the people running right now are more pragmatic and centric than that. But I agree, as much as some on the left want them to go full left in their rhetoric, they are best not to do that. Stay moderate and centric and then use your election wins to move policy left. If you put your rhetoric before your election wins, you'll never get to change policy.

The issue as I see it is that moderates on the left don't actually want lefty policies, and lefties who want lefty policy won't campaign as moderates. That's not how the left works. Trust me I would love it if a middle-left politician campaigned with a progressive dog whistle, like they do on the right, but they don't. Many on the left were hoping Obama was that guy, but he wasn't.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

The GOP pushed their policy for decades, as a long term play. Those that believe in healthcare should do the same. People need to hear about a change this big for a long time to embrace it.

Democrats campaigned on health care reform for decades. I'm not sure I'd trust them next time around to do what's right. A lot of the same Dems who were around in 2009 are still pulling the strings.

[TheLeviathan]

 

The issue as I see it is that moderates on the left don't actually want lefty policies, and lefties who want lefty policy won't campaign as moderates. That's not how the left works. Trust me I would love it if a middle-left politician campaigned with a progressive dog whistle, like they do on the right, but they don't. Many on the left were hoping Obama was that guy, but he wasn't.

 

That's a fair criticism.  Is Klobuchar that person?

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

That's a fair criticism.  Is Klobuchar that person?

Good question. I honestly don't know. What is your opinion?

[TheLeviathan]

 

Good question. I honestly don't know. What is your opinion?

 

I think it's possible.  She's a strong candidate - she's tough without being abrasive (unlike Bernie, for example), smart as a whip, comes off as a genuinely nice person, has centric/deal making chops in Congress, and seems to be without any noticeable flaws to attack.

 

Does she move policy enough?  I'm not sure, but I think she's a damn fine candidate to take the Presidency.

[biggentleben]

 

I think it's possible.  She's a strong candidate - she's tough without being abrasive (unlike Bernie, for example), smart as a whip, comes off as a genuinely nice person, has centric/deal making chops in Congress, and seems to be without any noticeable flaws to attack.

 

Does she move policy enough?  I'm not sure, but I think she's a damn fine candidate to take the Presidency.

 

Personal interaction with her would lead me to never, ever cast a vote for her.

[Squirrel]

I’m not a huge fan of HuffPo and don’t tend to share their articles much if at all, but this is a piece about Klobuchar a friend of mine shared. I haven’t seen or read anything similar from mainstream media, but if there is any truth to it, that wouldn’t be good.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/amy-klobuchar-abuse-staff-2020_us_5c5a1cb1e4b0871047588649?utm_campaign=hp_fb_pages&utm_medium=facebook&ncid=fcbklnkushpmg00000063&utm_source=main_fb&fbclid=IwAR0E4AneJD41fI_wZu2izCzrK9Ih2cLf8Q0UIGt9ENt0hW_RVQLZ-GXIPmw

[PseudoSABR]

 

I’m not a huge fan of HuffPo and don’t tend to share their articles much if at all, but this is a piece about Klobuchar a friend of mine shared. I haven’t seen or read anything similar from mainstream media, but if there is any truth to it, that wouldn’t be good.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/amy-klobuchar-abuse-staff-2020_us_5c5a1cb1e4b0871047588649?utm_campaign=hp_fb_pages&utm_medium=facebook&ncid=fcbklnkushpmg00000063&utm_source=main_fb&fbclid=IwAR0E4AneJD41fI_wZu2izCzrK9Ih2cLf8Q0UIGt9ENt0hW_RVQLZ-GXIPmw

I was going to mention this as well, as I've seen it reported a number of places now.

 

Klobuchar seems pretty vanilla to me.  Sure, I'd vote for her, but I don't think she'd drive turn out.  For those hoping for moderation, I see why they like her, but think a play to the center is what's had Democrats losing or getting Republican-lite candidates for decades...

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

I’m not a huge fan of HuffPo and don’t tend to share their articles much if at all, but this is a piece about Klobuchar a friend of mine shared. I haven’t seen or read anything similar from mainstream media, but if there is any truth to it, that wouldn’t be good.https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/amy-klobuchar-abuse-staff-2020_us_5c5a1cb1e4b0871047588649?utm_campaign=hp_fb_pages&utm_medium=facebook&ncid=fcbklnkushpmg00000063&utm_source=main_fb&fbclid=IwAR0E4AneJD41fI_wZu2izCzrK9Ih2cLf8Q0UIGt9ENt0hW_RVQLZ-GXIPmw

A lot of really good reporting at HuffPost, but a counter-productive editorial lean that sometimes borders on the horrific.

 

 

That's my opinion; not that anyone asked

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

I’m not a huge fan of HuffPo and don’t tend to share their articles much if at all, but this is a piece about Klobuchar a friend of mine shared. I haven’t seen or read anything similar from mainstream media, but if there is any truth to it, that wouldn’t be good.https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/amy-klobuchar-abuse-staff-2020_us_5c5a1cb1e4b0871047588649?utm_campaign=hp_fb_pages&utm_medium=facebook&ncid=fcbklnkushpmg00000063&utm_source=main_fb&fbclid=IwAR0E4AneJD41fI_wZu2izCzrK9Ih2cLf8Q0UIGt9ENt0hW_RVQLZ-GXIPmw

I have no problems with her being hard-working or hard to work for, but, "pick up Amy's dirty clothes off the floor and hang them back up for her" is getting into sketchy territory.

[ashbury]

I'm going to stick my neck out and say that gender is a confounding factor in nearly every single aspect the HuffPo article raised.

 

Judging only by the ranked list of turnover rates in one of the linked articles, maybe Kamala Harris and Elizabeth Warren learned quicker how to navigate those particular waters, but other explanations are possible, for example a Minnesota senator might have a smaller pool of outstanding applicants to choose from (than CA and MA) and the winnowing process through the years might be more painful.

 

Any senator who hasn't had a staffer pick up dry cleaning probably is the one to start the impeachment^* process.

 

 

^{* _{Hat tip to a fellow TD poster whose discussion has led me to think about sharpening up my Straw Man game.}}

[Squirrel]

 

I was going to mention this as well, as I've seen it reported a number of places now.

 

Klobuchar seems pretty vanilla to me.  Sure, I'd vote for her, but I don't think she'd drive turn out.  For those hoping for moderation, I see why they like her, but think a play to the center is what's had Democrats losing or getting Republican-lite candidates for decades...

I've actually read that elsewhere ... the driving turnout thing ... maybe even here. That she doesn't really have a broad name for herself in other areas of the country. She might do well in the Midwest (upper Midwest), but how would she fare outside Minnesota and the states bordering Minnesota?

 

It's going to be an interesting field and I'll be reading up on various candidates. I know who I like 'right now' but that could very well change.

 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

* _{Hat tip to a fellow TD poster whose discussion has led me to think about sharpening up my Straw Man game.}

me, again?

 

...I should have never taken that gig at the scarecrow factory...*mutters to self*...

[ashbury]

me, again?

If you have to wonder, then it isn't you.

 

_{^{/ Though, if I had a nickel for every TD'er I've discussed Straw Man arguments with.... I could purchase a lot of straw.}}

[Vanimal46]

If you have to wonder, then it isn't you.

 

_{^{/ Though, if I had a nickel for every TD'er I've discussed Straw Man arguments with.... I could purchase a lot of straw.}}

Soooo much straw, and potentially not enough cows to feed straw to! If the Green New Deal comes true...

[Mike Sixel]

If you want a lengthy discussion on Sen. Klobuchar....

 

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/politics-podcast-amy-klobuchars-path-to-the-democratic-nomination/

[ashbury]

If you want a lengthy discussion on Sen. Klobuchar....

 

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/politics-podcast-amy-klobuchars-path-to-the-democratic-nomination/

This 538 article covers a lot and doesn't require the patience to sit through potentially 47 minutes:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/amy-klobuchar-2020-democratic-nomination-kickoff

 

 

[TheLeviathan]

 

I was going to mention this as well, as I've seen it reported a number of places now.

 

Klobuchar seems pretty vanilla to me.  Sure, I'd vote for her, but I don't think she'd drive turn out.  For those hoping for moderation, I see why they like her, but think a play to the center is what's had Democrats losing or getting Republican-lite candidates for decades...

 

The Democrats did not lose because they ran to the center.  They lost because they lost their center.  

 

Run lefties where they can win, but a lefty isn't going to reverse Hillary's outcome.  Turning out liberals doesn't fix the loss in the electoral college.  And, ultimately, that's what you have to win.

 

Kamala Harris isn't likely to flip Wisconsin or Ohio or Pennsylvania back to blue.  Running a coastal, left-wing candidate against Trump is handing him four more years.