Stick a fork in the 2017 Twins

[DaveW]

It was a fun few months, time to sell the few sellable assets we have.

 

Falvey has failed us in his first season, this rotation and bullpen are embarrassing.

 

Hopefully can get some arms for the future.

[Dantes929]

I remember Mike and Mike saying stick a fork in the 2006 Twins when they were 12.5 out in May.   Again when they were 10.5 out in August.    Give up on them if you want.    They are just a modest good streak from being right back in it.

[Otto von Ballpark]

I remember Mike and Mike saying stick a fork in the 2006 Twins when they were 12.5 out in May. Again when they were 10.5 out in August. Give up on them if you want. They are just a modest good streak from being right back in it.

To be fair, when we were 10.5 games behind Detroit in the division in August 2006, we were still in a virtual tie for the wild card.

[Old Twins Cap]

At the game on Sunday, during Escobar's 13-pitch at bat, bases loaded for the third time that game, with each pitch and foul ball, a 10-day West Coast trip looming, I turned to my buddy after the last swing and miss:  "There goes the season right there."

 

And I think I was right.  Twins needed that game, that inning, that hit.  And now, there's no real path.

[drjim]

Meh. They're about a game worse than where I expected them right now coming out of the all star break.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if they sold, but I also think they have been counted out multiple times this season and bounced back (how many of these have you personally posted Dave?). They have a nice little soft part in their schedule where they can do some damage. I would prefer they add a cheap reliever and give it a go.

[Mike Sixel]

We want Garver, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap.

[DaveW]

(how many of these have you personally posted Dave?). They have a nice little soft part in their schedule where they can do some damage. I would prefer they add a cheap reliever and give it a go.

This is my first

[DaveW]

Yeah I'd be dealing The following for sure:

Santana

Dozier

Garcia

Kintzler

Castro

Grossman

Santiago

 

Also would look into dealing Rosario and Polanco as well.

[Roaddog]

I don't mind Castro, but I'd rather he platoon with a catcher that can hit. Why not bring up Garver, let him do some catching and play the outfield. Maybe let him DH rather than esco

[jimbo92107]

I don't see this season as a failure, especially in light of how good the best couple teams are. I have very little criticism of the level of effort by everybody on the team. That said, it's time for the Twins to start making moves to make room for the talent in AAA and AA. If this organization wants to make a serious run in, say, 2019, then now is the time to get their most mature prospects up to test their game. I'm okay with the rookie follies to follow. The team's record will doubtless collapse as a result of a serious "sell" policy. Young pitchers will make mistakes, get too excited, etc. Young position players will flail at curve balls, blow fielding plays, etc. It's time to make those mistakes this year, getting the rookie shakes out of the way so they can settle down next year. 

[Guest]

After 100 games, they're on pace to better last year's record by 20 games. Young players are finally getting chances, at their natural positions, and many of them are showing large improvement. Sounds like a great year. Expectations beyond that are unrealistic.

[Mike Sixel]

 

After 100 games, they're on pace to better last year's record by 20 games. Young players are finally getting chances, at their natural positions, and many of them are showing large improvement. Sounds like a great year. Expectations beyond that are unrealistic.

 

did Dave say otherwise? Or anyone? who are you arguing with?

[Guest]

did Dave say otherwise? Or anyone? who are you arguing with?

OP said GM has failed.

 

What are your thoughts?

[Mike Sixel]

It's too early to asses the GM/FO, clearly.

 

But, their lack of action to address the pitching was, suspect, at best. And, they've done nothing to either help 17 or 18/19 during the year either. They've pretty much done nothing. If they do that again next off season, I will be disappointed to say the least.

[Rosterman]

The season is far from a failure. We could be mired in last place (well, we still could if we trade everyone away).I

 

t has allowed the front office to evaluate some talent, look at the minors, figure out why they win in the minors and then fail in the majors (hopefully) and put a stamp on the future with what appears to be a good draft.

 

The plus side is that the team played well and is running a modest 500 in attendance down from last year, so -- assuming they did underbudget -- they should do well this season and maybe have some money to do something next season.

 

I'm waiting to see if Cleveland makes a move or two. Kansas City wants to win this year. The White sox are adding lots of pieces for the future.

 

The Twins have to look at 2018 and 2019 and give some action to pieces that may be a part of those years, especially if their on-field performance will be no worse than some pieces they are replacing.

 

Ervin Santana is a luxury. He is an anchor. He is an investment, but the Twins already have some bad investments that they must carry (Hughes for one).

 

If they do slip out of the hunt, August waivers might bring them the salary relief by moving Gibson or Santiago. 

 

And they have to look long and hard at who is Rule 5 eligible (no one that could make the majors, otherwise the Twins should be looking at that themselves, who might be a free agent and still has promise in the system, and who they have to protect that can also contribute during the 2018 campaign.

 

To me, Dozier is the big question. Can you replace him right now? Will he take x-amount for a contract? Remember, he could become a DH who can also play the field towards the end of his contract, a position the Twins have no one currently in the loop to fill that role not named Sano, who is holding his own at third base.

 

And the Twins really do need to address the longterm issue of Mauer. As well as evaluate Molitor and the coaching staff.

 

[Otto von Ballpark]

After 100 games, they're on pace to better last year's record by 20 games. Young players are finally getting chances, at their natural positions, and many of them are showing large improvement. Sounds like a great year. Expectations beyond that are unrealistic.

Didn't a lot of people say last year's team wasn't a true talent (or lack thereof) 103 loss team?

[Guest]

Didn't a lot of people say last year's team wasn't a true talent (or lack thereof) 103 loss team?

Even if it was a true talent 95 loss team, this year is looking way better. Remember that last year's team was led by two veterans, Dozier and Santana, having the best years of their careers. In terms of building for the future, it's much better to have growth years by Sano and Berrios.

[jimmer]

I remember Mike and Mike saying stick a fork in the 2006 Twins when they were 12.5 out in May. Again when they were 10.5 out in August. Give up on them if you want. They are just a modest good streak from being right back in it.

and to be fair, in 2006, we had won 3 of the previous 4 division titles and proven playoff caliber talent was still there. This team is nothing like the 2006 team that was 10.5 back in August but also had a record of 65-46. If this team was 65-46, doubt anyone would have much negative to say about it.

 

Right now, we have to hope this team is like the 2001 team.

 

Oh, and Mike and Mike arent exactly baseball experts. Even less so 11 years ago

[Brock Beauchamp]

They went into the home stadium of the hottest (and likely best) team in baseball and played two competitive games.

 

It hurts the Twins in the standings but this wasn't the Astros series where the Twins were humiliated in three games.

[Mike Sixel]

 

They went into the home stadium of the hottest (and likely best) team in baseball and played two competitive games.

 

It hurts the Twins in the standings but this wasn't the Astros series where the Twins were humiliated in three games.

 

Moral victories! Meh, I'm tired of moral victories. Go get some players.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Even if it was a true talent 95 loss team, this year is looking way better. Remember that last year's team was led by two veterans, Dozier and Santana, having the best years of their careers. In terms of building for the future, it's much better to have growth years by Sano and Berrios.

True, although the new FO didn't really have anything to do with that. (And perhaps should have cashed in those vets already?)

[jimmer]

To be fair, when we were 10.5 games behind Detroit in the division in August 2006, we were still in a virtual tie for the wild card.

and our record was 65-46, considerably above .500 not below it.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Moral victories! Meh, I'm tired of moral victories. Go get some players.

I'm not declaring it a moral victory, only pointing out that the Twins lost a series to what is likely the best team in baseball and kept it close.

 

Now they get to play some of the cupcakes of baseball. We'll see how this shakes out soon enough. One interleague series in July will not make or break a season.

[jimmer]

I'm not declaring it a moral victory, only pointing out that the Twins lost a series to what is likely the best team in baseball and kept it close.

 

Now they get to play some of the cupcakes of baseball. We'll see how this shakes out soon enough. One interleague series in July will not make or break a season.

mmmm, cupcakes and shakes...

[Squirrel]

mmmm, cupcakes and shakes...

Analogous or actual ... mmmm, is right ... mighty tasty!

[Guest]

True, although the new FO didn't really have anything to do with that. (And perhaps should have cashed in those vets already?)

Well, they brought in as many new coaches as they were allowed to, opened up third base for Sano, found catchers that may benefit Berrios and other pitchers, changed the pitcher development program, instituted new method to prepare for games, stopped the whining to favorite media about disappointment every time a young player made a mistake that a veteran like Logan Schafer or Matt Tolbert either wouldn't have made or would have at least looked effortful in making, and showed a greater reluctance to pull the plug on developing players, among other things. But, other than that, you're right, management probably did nothing.

 

Cashed in the vets already? Wow, three days ago, they would have been pilloried for trading vets, but now they've waited too long? Let's wait for the trade deadline to officially end before saying they did a bad job at the trade deadline.

[DaveW]

I'm not declaring it a moral victory, only pointing out that the Twins lost a series to what is likely the best team in baseball and kept it close.

 

Now they get to play some of the cupcakes of baseball. We'll see how this shakes out soon enough. One interleague series in July will not make or break a season.

You can't rountinely blow big leads in the last 3 innings of ball games. This team is cooked. Especially now that Berrios and Santana aren't pitching lights out

[DaveW]

After 100 games, they're on pace to better last year's record by 20 games. Young players are finally getting chances, at their natural positions, and many of them are showing large improvement. Sounds like a great year. Expectations beyond that are unrealistic.

The pitching across the board is still a disaster. Other than Berrios and Santana, who can we exactly count on in the rotation moving fwd?

 

Bullpen: we have zero shut down guys, a decent closer and a couple decent arms. Long ways to go.

 

Depth in the minors at SP isn't promising either imo.

 

Bats and defense are fine and encouraging. Unfortunately pitching is prob the best important part of the game.

 

So yes, they are better than last year (which was the worst year in their history) but still, can't be ok with such terrible pitching.

[Loosey]

I mentioned it in another post.  But to really have any sort of shot this team will need to go at least 37-25 the rest of the way.  They have not played 12 games above .500 baseball all season and I don't really see a streak coming that will get them there.  

 

It's been fun, but I think reality may have set in.  Trade anything sellable and if you are buying get long-term assets (Stroman, Grey, etc.)

[Otto von Ballpark]

Well, they brought in as many new coaches as they were allowed to, opened up third base for Sano, found catchers that may benefit Berrios and other pitchers, changed the pitcher development program, instituted new method to prepare for games, stopped the whining to favorite media about disappointment every time a young player made a mistake that a veteran like Logan Schafer or Matt Tolbert either wouldn't have made or would have at least looked effortful in making, and showed a greater reluctance to pull the plug on developing players, among other things. But, other than that, you're right, management probably did nothing.

 

Cashed in the vets already? Wow, three days ago, they would have been pilloried for trading vets, but now they've waited too long? Let's wait for the trade deadline to officially end before saying they did a bad job at the trade deadline.

I was thinking more last offseason than the current deadline.

 

Also, I didn't say the new FO did nothing, just not much toward the 2017 record which you cited as evidence of progress.