Twins, Jax Affected by Defense Department Decision

[Seth Stohs]

 

The U.S. Defense Department has rescinded its 2016 policy allowing military service academy athletes to go straight to the pros upon graduation.

 

 

This change will most likely affect the Twins and 2016 3rd round draft pick Griffin Jax. 

 

 

 

“Our military academies exist to develop future officers who enhance the readiness and the lethality of our military services. Graduates enjoy the extraordinary benefit of a military academy education at taxpayer expense. Therefore, upon graduation, officers will serve as military officers for their minimum commitment of two years,” Pentagon chief spokesman Dana W. White said Monday in a statement.

 

 

This is unfortunate as there was a strong belief by both the Twins and Jax that his commitment would be able to pitch starting this summer. Now, it looks like it could be two years from now. 

 

http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2017/05/01/griffin-jax-academy-athlete-policy/

 

[gunnarthor]

Well, that sucks.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Well, that sucks.

 

Especially if you made your commitment under 1 set of rules, and they changed them....

[diehardtwinsfan]

My understanding is that this is not retroactive.... that's what the football version article noted. 

[Head 1st into 1st]

Thanks Obama!

[Thrylos]

 

My understanding is that this is not retroactive.... that's what the football version article noted. 

 

 

Sure but Jax has not yet graduated.  He was drafted as a junior, played a bit in the summer and then back to the Academy.  He will graduate this Spring, so I suspect that the rules will affect him.

 

That was a lot of risk that the Twins took with that selection for sure.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Sure but Jax has not yet graduated.  He was drafted as a junior, played a bit in the summer and then back to the Academy.  He will graduate this Spring, so I suspect that the rules will affect him.

 

That was a lot of risk that the Twins took with that selection for sure.

 

ah... makes more sense. 

 

Honestly, as a sports fan, I don't like it.  As a tax payer, it's the right call. 

[drivlikejehu]

 

ah... makes more sense. 

 

Honestly, as a sports fan, I don't like it.  As a tax payer, it's the right call. 

 

Strongly disagree, as a taxpayer. Only an infinitesimal portion of military academy graduates have pro sports potential - but the athletic programs are an important recruiting tool. Delaying the service of one junior officer here or there makes no difference in the scheme of things, but missing out on a larger group of quality student-athletes is a clear net loss for the DoD.

[Thrylos]

 

 missing out on a larger group of quality student-athletes is a clear net loss for the DoD.

 

What does student athletics have to do to support the mission of the DoD?  As I matter of fact, I would say that the DoD athletics programs (and the $ that taxpayers pay to run)  have zero to do with the mission of the DoD and is a waste.  Kids go to the Air Force academy to learn how to fly fighters and bombers, and not to get a taxpayer-paid education and then become pro Athletes.  If they want to become pro Athletes, there are better places to go to college...

 

And if a potential officer will not go to the Air Force, Navy or Army academies because they do not have sports programs, I do not want that officer...

[Mike Sixel]

 

What does student athletics have to do to support the mission of the DoD?  As I matter of fact, I would say that the DoD athletics programs (and the $ that taxpayers pay to run)  have zero to do with the mission of the DoD and is a waste.  Kids go to the Air Force academy to learn how to fly fighters and bombers, and not to get a taxpayer-paid education and then become pro Athletes.  If they want to become pro Athletes, there are better places to go to college...

 

And if a potential officer will not go to the Air Force, Navy or Army academies because they do not have sports programs, I do not want that officer...

 

Isn't this true of all college sports? That they have nothing much to do with the mission statement of HS and college and university?

 

The world just isn't black and white, it just isn't. If a potential officer wants to be a doctor, you want them out? What about in IT long term, you want them out? The world is not some yes/no win/lose place.

[yarnivek1972]

Isn't this true of all college sports? That they have nothing much to do with the mission statement of HS and college and university?

 

The world just isn't black and white, it just isn't. If a potential officer wants to be a doctor, you want them out? What about in IT long term, you want them out? The world is not some yes/no win/lose place.

The difference is that a doctor or an IT officer has skills that help the military. How do the skills of a pro athlete help the military?

[Thrylos]

 

Isn't this true of all college sports? That they have nothing much to do with the mission statement of HS and college and university?

 

Totally is.  Especially in State Universities where Taxpayers pay ridiculous amounts in salaries and facilities for those sports, and the kids end up with a taxpayer paid education.  If a kid does not want to go to college, he/she should not.  If someone wants to be a pro athlete, there should be some sort of a minor league system that takes care of that.

 

And I would have zero problem if Colleges offered Athletics the same way Division III schools do:  No scholarships, no overpaid coaches, and facilities, and the games are free for all to watch.

 

I'd rather see them take all that $ and offer need- and merit-based scholarships to the general population.  Or, what a concept: free tuition for State schools for all in-state students who merit it academically...

[DocBauer]

I recall many years ago, when David Robinson was in this situation, part of the reason he was allowed out of his military comitment...or so I read...was the Navy felt him playing in the NBA was actually a useful recruiting tool for them.

[Thrylos]

 

I recall many years ago, when David Robinson was in this situation, part of the reason he was allowed out of his military comitment...or so I read...was the Navy felt him playing in the NBA was actually a useful recruiting tool for them.

 

Robinson was an interesting case.  He was above the maximum height to safely serve in the Navy, so they cooked the books some way to admit him as well...

[gil4]

 

What does student athletics have to do to support the mission of the DoD?  As I matter of fact, I would say that the DoD athletics programs (and the $ that taxpayers pay to run)  have zero to do with the mission of the DoD and is a waste.  Kids go to the Air Force academy to learn how to fly fighters and bombers, and not to get a taxpayer-paid education and then become pro Athletes.  If they want to become pro Athletes, there are better places to go to college...

 

And if a potential officer will not go to the Air Force, Navy or Army academies because they do not have sports programs, I do not want that officer...

The curriculum at the service academies is similar to other universities, with the exception that there is more emphasis on technical majors.  There are some military-specific classes, but nobody starts military flight training until after graduation. 

 

The military also places a heavy emphasis on fitness and has many specialties that do require elite physical strength and conditioning.  Varsity sports play a big part in recruiting the people needed to fill those positions.  I would guess that for every one they keep by enforcing this rule, they will lose 10 recruits who aren't ready to give up the pro dream right after high school.

 

[Shaitan]

 

What does student athletics have to do to support the mission of the DoD?  As I matter of fact, I would say that the DoD athletics programs (and the $ that taxpayers pay to run)  have zero to do with the mission of the DoD and is a waste.  Kids go to the Air Force academy to learn how to fly fighters and bombers, and not to get a taxpayer-paid education and then become pro Athletes.  If they want to become pro Athletes, there are better places to go to college...

 

And if a potential officer will not go to the Air Force, Navy or Army academies because they do not have sports programs, I do not want that officer...

South Korea requires every male to serve in the military. I believe Choo (TEX) got that waived because they deemed his time at the first WBC to be "service representative of the country."

[drivlikejehu]

 

What does student athletics have to do to support the mission of the DoD?  As I matter of fact, I would say that the DoD athletics programs (and the $ that taxpayers pay to run)  have zero to do with the mission of the DoD and is a waste.  Kids go to the Air Force academy to learn how to fly fighters and bombers, and not to get a taxpayer-paid education and then become pro Athletes.  If they want to become pro Athletes, there are better places to go to college...

 

And if a potential officer will not go to the Air Force, Navy or Army academies because they do not have sports programs, I do not want that officer...

 

D-I athletic programs attract candidates that otherwise would not be interested. That's just a fact. Yet, almost none go pro. The DoD's mission is to defend the country, which depends on the strongest possible officer corps. Athletic programs add, rather than detract, from that mission. The military academies have the best argument of pretty much any university to go after top student-athletes. It's completely addled to think otherwise.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Strongly disagree, as a taxpayer. Only an infinitesimal portion of military academy graduates have pro sports potential - but the athletic programs are an important recruiting tool. Delaying the service of one junior officer here or there makes no difference in the scheme of things, but missing out on a larger group of quality student-athletes is a clear net loss for the DoD.

 

The issue I see is more or less favoritism.  I've spent enough time in the military circles (without serving I might add) to know that this IS  a big deal.  Kids in D1 schools are getting a free education because they are good athletes and are essentially making money for their schools (and when you think about it, they are underpaid).  Kids going to WestPoint or the academies are getting a free education regardless of their athletic skills, and to do so, they made a service commitment to their country.  There's a big difference here.  All Mattis is saying is that they made a commitment and that they now need to honor it, whereas previous athletes could walk away if the pros came calling. It really is a slap in the face to everyone else in the military, not to mention that there are limited spots in those academies as well. 

 

WestPoint doesn't exist to train athletes. It exists to train officers.  That is the mission.

[ThejacKmp]

 

What does student athletics have to do to support the mission of the DoD?  As I matter of fact, I would say that the DoD athletics programs (and the $ that taxpayers pay to run)  have zero to do with the mission of the DoD and is a waste.  Kids go to the Air Force academy to learn how to fly fighters and bombers, and not to get a taxpayer-paid education and then become pro Athletes.  If they want to become pro Athletes, there are better places to go to college...

 

And if a potential officer will not go to the Air Force, Navy or Army academies because they do not have sports programs, I do not want that officer...

 

The military academies don't get one-and-done athletes so it's not like they're not trying to get guys a diploma - see Jax coming back for his senior year.

 

The military suffers because they don't get elite recruits. If you tell a guy, "Going to our college means you can never play pro", that's a tough decision. It's a much easier sell to say, "We expect you to graduate and serve your country - however, if you develop into a pro prospect, we'll let you follow that dream too." Wouldn't you rather have your recruits be really good athletes, many of whom won't be pro prospects and will be elite rangers/Seals etc.? This rule makes it so anyone with a dual dream of pro sports and the military has to choose - and the academies get worse recruits as a result. Dumb.

 

And as several people have said, the DoD makes money off of these guys from alumni and video games and what not so it's not like they get nothing from the experience.

 

Terrible decision -- any info on whether this was a WH decision? A DoD decision? Unless it causes major morale problems in the Army (hard to see that but possible), I don't get it.

[Mike Sixel]

 

The issue I see is more or less favoritism.  I've spent enough time in the military circles (without serving I might add) to know that this IS  a big deal.  Kids in D1 schools are getting a free education because they are good athletes and are essentially making money for their schools (and when you think about it, they are underpaid).  Kids going to WestPoint or the academies are getting a free education regardless of their athletic skills, and to do so, they made a service commitment to their country.  There's a big difference here.  All Mattis is saying is that they made a commitment and that they now need to honor it, whereas previous athletes could walk away if the pros came calling. It really is a slap in the face to everyone else in the military, not to mention that there are limited spots in those academies as well. 

 

WestPoint doesn't exist to train athletes. It exists to train officers.  That is the mission.

 

Except when they went to the academy, the rule was that they could get a deferral. Now he is changing the rules in the middle of the game. Is that fair? Everyone knew the rules, some athletes get a deferral. Those were the rules. 

[Mike Sixel]

 

Totally is.  Especially in State Universities where Taxpayers pay ridiculous amounts in salaries and facilities for those sports, and the kids end up with a taxpayer paid education.  If a kid does not want to go to college, he/she should not.  If someone wants to be a pro athlete, there should be some sort of a minor league system that takes care of that.

 

And I would have zero problem if Colleges offered Athletics the same way Division III schools do:  No scholarships, no overpaid coaches, and facilities, and the games are free for all to watch.

 

I'd rather see them take all that $ and offer need- and merit-based scholarships to the general population.  Or, what a concept: free tuition for State schools for all in-state students who merit it academically...

 

I'm with you. We are the only nation that has college sports like this. They need to go.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Except when they went to the academy, the rule was that they could get a deferral. Now he is changing the rules in the middle of the game. Is that fair? Everyone knew the rules, some athletes get a deferral. Those were the rules. 

 

I won't argue that it would been wiser to apply it to new recruits, but in Jax's case, he remained at the academy after being drafted...  His mistake if he wanted to go pro. 

 

This is the military.  Recruits are nothing more than chess pieces to them, and they own you. If you don't like that, don't enlist.  It's not a whole lot different than someone who enlists who decides they don't want to fight. 

[theBOMisthebomb]

I hate when the government Jax us around.

[spinowner]

 

The world just isn't black and white, it just isn't. If a potential officer wants to be a doctor, you want them out? 

The military needs physicians (who will also be officers, BTW). The military doesn't need baseball players.

[The Wise One]

 

Robinson was an interesting case.  He was above the maximum height to safely serve in the Navy, so they cooked the books some way to admit him as well...

Robinson entered the academy at 6-7 and later grew taller. 6-8 in the height maximum. So what books were cooked?

[Mr. Brooks]

Robinson entered the academy at 6-7 and later grew taller. 6-8 in the height maximum. So what books were cooked?

Well if the books were cooked, then the record would say he was 6-7, even if he were say 6-9 or 6-10. That is kind of what cooking the books means.

 

I could care less, I'm just pointing out that I doubt you personally measured him.

[The Wise One]

 

Well if the books were cooked, then the record would say he was 6-7, even if he were say 6-9 or 6-10. That is kind of what cooking the books means.

I could care less, I'm just pointing out that I doubt you personally measured him.

There are far too many stories out there about him being a 6-6 6-7 player in high school. Since many here seem to request footnotes

https://www.si.com/vault/1996/04/29/212352/trials-of-david-san-antonio-spurs-center-and-born-again-christian-david-robinson-is-trying-to-lead-his-team-to-an-nba-title-and-remain-pure-in-a-world-beset-by-the-seven-deadly-sins

Robinson was not all state as a basketball player in high school. He was not that good. There was no reason to "cook" books.  So perhaps if you wish to accuse someone of misdeeds you can prove he was too tall for the academy when he entered and was so good they would cheat. If he was so good as a freshman worth cheating over, why did he average 13 minutes per game?

You cared enough to comment. I really doubt Thrylos measured him, either. Yet you take his word for it.

[Mr. Brooks]

There are far too many stories out there about him being a 6-6 6-7 player in high school. Since many here seem to request footnotes

https://www.si.com/vault/1996/04/29/212352/trials-of-david-san-antonio-spurs-center-and-born-again-christian-david-robinson-is-trying-to-lead-his-team-to-an-nba-title-and-remain-pure-in-a-world-beset-by-the-seven-deadly-sins

Robinson was not all state as a basketball player in high school. He was not that good. There was no reason to "cook" books. So perhaps if you wish to accuse someone of misdeeds you can prove he was too tall for the academy when he entered and was so good they would cheat. If he was so good as a freshman worth cheating over, why did he average 13 minutes per game?

You cared enough to comment. I really doubt Thrylos measured him, either. Yet you take his word for it.

I'm not taking anyone's word for anything. I never claimed they did or did not do anything.

I was having a little fun with a silly pointless conspiracy theory.

[Minnesotahorn]

 

I hate when the government Jax us around.

 

 

Thread winner.

 

Some thoughts as both a service member and a collegiate sports fan:

 

There's a little bit of tone-deafness here that we ought to address.  The idea that we don't want applicants to our service academies that might want to pursue pro sports careers if that opportunity is available to them.  That's silliness.  The OVERWHELMING majority of military members enlist to better their lives/careers.  The idea of service is one component in choosing to join but there are many and the opportunity to pursue a career one has dreamed about (because even among those who choose to serve a full military career is not usually their goal) is usually a primary factor.  The military makes a bargain with its applicants.  General Mattis has altered that bargain for a few and I'm cool with that but let's not act like everyone who hitches up must do so for purely patriotic or altruistic reasons.  It'd get real lonely on board my ship.  That's why the military offers sign-on bonuses or special compensation for all types of fields.

 

Frankly I like the idea of the service academies having somewhat relevant sports teams.  It's a decent recruiting tool and can sometimes help bring a spotlight to the actual men and women out sacrificing to do the nation's work (not just the future junior officers on the field and in the stands who have yet to do anything).  If the price of that is the occasional JO who defers their active duty commitment I'm fine with that.  If we decide it's not worth that bargain there's the potential to hurt service academies athletic recruitment and hence lesson that spotlight a tad but at this point I think it's marginal and just isn't that big a deal either way. 

[Minnesotahorn]

 

Well if the books were cooked, then the record would say he was 6-7, even if he were say 6-9 or 6-10. That is kind of what cooking the books means.

I could care less, I'm just pointing out that I doubt you personally measured him.

 

David Robinson was made a Civil Engineering Corps officer (the guys who lead the SeaBees and don't serve on ships) to alleviate the height concern.