Can't we just enjoy what we have?

[PseudoSABR]

Pictures of cute baby animals! Use your head, DPJ!

 

Can that little guy turn a double play?

[bird]

Geez, SpiritofVodka Dave, way to pee in the punch bowl with all that meaningless droning of positivity! Yep, the damn excuse factory is workin' overtime, Dave, and you're the foreman.

 

I'm here to fulfill the Community Service requirements of my last sentence. Just trying to keep the bruises down in the DPJ household.

[Rosterman]

The Twins is 2013:

 

Need to address 2B/SS Carroll/Dozier and someone for backup is adequate.

 

Plouffe at 3B - let's see how he comes back from thumb injury.

 

Revere and Span in the OF -- two very similar players. Do we want more big pop in RF, or settle for getting on base and speed.

 

Bench - non-existent.

 

The Twins, to succeed in 2013, need to improve at-the-plate. Advancing AND scoring runners. Taking more pitches. Running. The possibility exists.

 

Bullpen: A strength. Right now 2-4 suitable long men. A dynamite lefty who can get out one or two batters. Decent setup. Terry Ryan did good trolling last winter.

 

Starting Rotation: Diamond, Deduno, DeVries (potential bullpen longman), Duensing (keep in bullpen, but he throws lefty). I'm not sure Walters will contribue. Hendriks will get to show off some in September.

 

The Twins still need two starters, top of the rotation innings eaters who won't pull up lame. You can spend the money if you wish, and that would be the easiest way -- buy them and hope they pitch to keep 38,000 butts in the stands and everyone who has been performing the latter months of 2012 continue to do so equally.

[Craig Arko]

Can that little guy turn a double play?

Betcha my 13 week old Golden puppy would make one heck of a cutoff man.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Betcha my 13 week old Golden puppy would make one heck of a cutoff man.

Back in 2006, BYTO spent months lobbying to replace Jose Bautista with a labradoodle.

[Craig Arko]

Back in 2006, BYTO spent months lobbying to replace Jose Bautista with a labradoodle.

Not unlike the Bombo Rivera for Governor campaign.

[James]

Pictures of cute baby animals! Use your head, DPJ!

 

Well played, but I've got a proven player right here:

http://www.jenkatgames.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/cat-baseball-player1.jpg

 

As far as the original part of this thread goes, I would agree that it is nice to see improvement from what we saw in 2011. I have to admit that the team is looking much, much better than it did last year or even the beginning of this year. I'm actually enjoying watching these games and having some things to root for.

 

That being said, some of the things mentioned in the first post were not negative at all. The idea of trading Moreau or Span or Revere or Willingham have nothing to do with being negative about the team. They have everything to do with posters on this forum coming up with ideas to help the Twins improve over the next year. And I think that is a positive.

 

(Also, I don't know how moving Mastro to 2B is a negative comment. I think anyone suggesting that clearly wants him playing every day with the likes of Span and Revere and the Hammer... There's only 3 outfield spots to put players in).

[IdahoPilgrim]

One of the things that I enjoy about baseball is that, even on the suckiest team in the league, there is still a 1-in-3 chance that you can go home happy with a win. Blackburn gets blown out? Maybe tomorrow will be better. You don't have to sit and mope about it for a whole week like in football.

 

Do I wish the Twins were a better team? Yes. Do I yearn for the days when we are back in the playoffs? Yes (and I might even like to see them win a post-season series again at some point). Do I think changes need to be made to make that happen? Yes. But I choose not to let that stop me from enjoying the good moments when they come. When they pound a team like they did last night in Cleveland, it's fun to watch (or follow on the internet:)) no matter what their record is. And even on the worst team there are positive things that you can look at and take the sting away a little bit. It doesn't mean you have your head in the sand and are not seeing reality. It means that, at the end of the day, you remember that this is just a game. It's meant to be enjoyed, by players and fans alike, and when that gets lost - then what's the point?

[ericchri]

Coming off the ridiculous number of injuries last year, it would have been pretty hard to have a gameplan for this season. Who could you be absolutely certain was going to be a contributor? Barring blowing up the whole team that is, but there was too much "potential" in too many players for that to be realistic, either. It's been pretty lousy to be a fan for the last couple years, but at least this coming offseason you can have a more legitimate evaluation of what you have in the players on the team from this year. That's what has me a little more optimistic. I don't expect grand things from the team next year, but they're showing the signs of having bottomed out and moving upwards again. The ceiling doesn't appear to be really high yet, but it's easier to identify what to work on.

 

The real question is what kind of team do you want? The Marlins have two fairly recent World Championships, followed up by dismantling the team and playing lousy baseball for years. And honestly, for some fans, that is what they want. Competing but ultimately failing doesn't leave a great feeling after it's all done (many of us also get the pleasure of being Vikings fans - Yay). Winning a championship so you have something to brag about is ultimately what you aspire to. But baseball is a different sport than the other big ones in that winning 60% of your games is ultimately regarded as being very successful, where the other sports the really good teams win more like 75-80%, some even more. It's pretty hard to build a team that you can say "that's definitely a championship team" in baseball, because a 10-win difference in record out of 162 games really isn't all that much (i.e equivalent to a 1-game difference in record in Football). We've been conditioned to believe a 95-win team is way better than an 85-win team, which is in turn way better than a 75-win team, but they're probably not much, ultimately.

 

The season is 162 games long over the course of 6 months. Teams are going to change over the course of that time. The current team looks better than the team that started the season, but naysayers can (understandably) claim you can't just cherrypick when to start counting the record from. Last year's team had a silly-good month of being the best pitching team in baseball, which led to the mirage of being competitive, only to ultimately regress back. This year's uptick feels a little more legitimate to me, but not everyone will agree. I'm more inclined to believe Span, Revere, Mauer, Willingham, Doumit, and Morneau (and possibly Plouffe) will continue to hit well than I was to believe last year's team could keep pitching like they did for that short stretch. But it could come crashing down pretty fast, too, if the D's regress as a pitching staff (not hard to believe will happen) or if any of the hitters get hurt or cool off.

 

The Twins need better starting pitching, I doubt you'll find a single person to argue that. But look at last year's Phillies. In the discussion as the best starting rotation ever, first round flameout in the playoffs. How many championships did the Braves win in the 90's? There's no ultimate answer "do this and you'll win." The 2001 Seattle Mariners went 116-46, and didn't win the series. I see a Twins team with a fairly good looking lineup 1-7 when everyone is healthy, and some pretty suspect pitching. And most of the suggestions revolve around trying to keep that 1-7 in pretty good working order and somehow improving the pitching. There are some reasonable suggestions to do that (move Morneau or Span to get pitching, put Parmelee in the lineup), but they don't guarantee success. They just indicate a team is trying to do something. We've tried to do things in the past, some have worked (Shannon Stewart), some haven't (pick one, there's lots). After an offseason of doing very little and not getting much better recordwise, the temptation to recommend numerous ways to get better by trading/signing/firing/whatever is pretty understandable.

 

If you enjoy watching the Twins right now, good for you. If you believe this team needs serious work and the owners/front office/coaches/players need to be held to a higher standard, good for you. Passionate fans are better than apathetic fans. </soapbox>

[DaveW]

This thread needs more dogs named after Twins players:

http://i49.tinypic.com/29dbv5e.jpg

[ofx1]

How is bitching about people bitching any different from what you're complaining about in the first place? If it *is* different, can I make a post about you doing a lousy job polishing turds?

[Brock Beauchamp]

What's your dog's name again, Dave?

[DaveW]

What's your dog's name again, Dave?

Drew Nishioka

[Craig Arko]

Let me run this by y'all, since you like what-if's.

 

Take the current squad, and put vintage Santana and Radke (or Viola and Blyleven, or Morris and Tapani, if you prefer) at the top of the rotation. Change nothing else.

 

Where does this team finish?

[DaveW]

Let me run this by y'all, since you like what-if's.

 

Take the current squad, and put vintage Santana and Radke (or Viola and Blyleven, or Morris and Tapani, if you prefer) at the top of the rotation. Change nothing else.

 

Where does this team finish?

1st

[glanzer]

Good stuff here spideyo. Of course the reality is that forum contributors on most any subject come to these places to vent frustrations. What fun would it be to talk about keeping things going just as they are!

[ofx1]

Let me run this by y'all, since you like what-if's.

 

Take the current squad, and put vintage Santana and Radke (or Viola and Blyleven, or Morris and Tapani, if you prefer) at the top of the rotation. Change nothing else.

 

Where does this team finish?

Just one, right? Right around .500 now at best, with stars aligned is a quick guess. Take any one of their best WAR years and exchange it for - I would guess Blackburn.

[DaveW]

Just one, right? Right around .500 now at best, with stars aligned is a quick guess. Take any one of their best WAR years and exchange it for - I would guess Blackburn.

He was implying any pair of them.

 

Cy Santana/Radke/Diamond/Liriano(he'd still be around!)/whoever

 

That is a winning rotation right there.

[ofx1]

OK yeah, a mythical pair, with both having their best year in this mythical scenario, would probably have the Twins at the top of the ALC.

[James]

Drew Nishioka

Great name.

 

That might just make me get another cat so I can name it Alexi Dozier, or Matt Pavano.

[YourHouseIsMyHouse]

The Twins may move up to 3rd in the Central. That's pretty cool and positive. -Whoooaaa weird smileys you stuck in RP.

[YourHouseIsMyHouse]

Matt Pavano.

Unfair it's Matt Capps. Fair if it's Matt Tolbert.

[DaveW]

Great name.

 

That might just make me get another cat so I can name it Alexi Dozier, or Matt Pavano.

It's actually Mauer.

[roger]

So why can't we just enjoy the improvement and enjoy the success, instead of advocating that we blow up the whole team and plan for 2015?

 

Thank you

[Thrylos]

Let me run this by y'all, since you like what-if's.

 

Take the current squad, and put vintage Santana and Radke (or Viola and Blyleven, or Morris and Tapani, if you prefer) at the top of the rotation. Change nothing else.

 

Where does this team finish?

 

With career years from both, this team might win the Central and then it will be 3 and out as usual.

[James]

It's actually Mauer.

That makes more sense.

 

As for the Matt Pavano, I was going for names of guys on the DL. So that name would work if I adopted a cat with health issues.

[Seth Stohs]

Good forum post, Spideyo!

 

Like most, I found myself pretty down on the team in mid-May and into June. Looking at the overall record is one thing... I understand the negativity found in not competing for a second straight year.

 

I am trying hard to counter that, however, with the fact that since mid-May, the team is something like 3-5 games over .500. Several roster changes have been made. The offense is playing better and coming together. Yes, there are still holes to be filled and the pitching staff does need to be addressed in the offseason, but if they can be over .500 for the final 2/3 of the season and use the offseason to address those needs, why can't they improve to .500 for the full season next year?

 

At that time, there will likely be help starting to come from the minor leagues and they could be a contender in 2014. One thing to point out is that blowing things up takes a long time to build back IF you acquire the right kind of talent. However, teams like the Royals and Astros and Pirates (until the last year) have been rebuilding for a long time. It doesn't always happen in the first rebuild attempt. With this current Twins roster, there is a strong baseline with Span, Revere, Mauer, Morneau, Willingham and Doumit. That's a pretty good starting point. Clearly, they would need to dive into free agency for a starting pitcher or three, and no, it doesn't have to be a Greinke-caliber pitcher.

 

There are prospects that are likely going to be ready to start contributing in 2013 and maybe one or two or three of them can step up with that baseline group in 2014 to contend. That includes names like Benson, Hicks, Arcia, Gibson, Hendriks and maybe one or two of those power arms drafted over the last two years. The following year, guys like Sano and Rosario will start arriving.

 

I was disappointed that there wasn't more activity at the trade deadline, but I fully subscribe to not giving up the sure-things you know, for the maybes you don't know... unless you're getting the guys that likely aren't available.

[one_eyed_jack]

I understand where you're coming from here, I mean how many "Nishioka sucks" threads do we need to have going at once?

 

However, I don't agree with the notion that anyone is obligated to be positive or negative here. Different people view the situation differently, and different people enjoy following baseball in general in different ways.

 

Some people are more interested on finding ways to enjoy the season. They tend to focus on positives and look for silver linings.

 

Others are more interested in figuring out what's wrong with the team and how to make it better. They tend to focus more on problem areas and looking back at how we got here.

 

There's tension between these 2 groups. The latter group tends to view the former as blind, cheerleading homers. To the former group, the latter are a bunch of Pissy Pauls.

 

But in the spirit of free expression as these forums are intended, we need to accept that there really isn't a correct approach to fanhood and tolerate these differences.

[ofx1]

but if they can be over .500 for the final 2/3 of the season and use the offseason to address those needs, why can't they improve to .500 for the full season next year?

 

I don't doubt they can. Does that mean you think a .500 2013 season could/should/would be considered a success then?

 

Sounds a little like "with the grace o god and the creek don't rise, we'll be in that double-wide by June!"

[Shane Wahl]

There are a bunch of people who think the Twins could contend next season with a couple of smart acquisitions.

 

The problem is that every single one of them has a different idea of how to get there. The OP is looking at the negatives in each post instead of seeing that each person is trying to figure out how to most improve the team... and to get quality starting pitching, the Twins are going to have to give up quality bats.

Morneau is the one bat I would be willing to give up, but I don't think it is *needed* to get quality starting pitching. The team is 38-35 in its past 73 games. That's what . . . a 85 win pace or so? Two pitchers for $20-25 million and the eventual promotion of Gibson could raise that number to 92-95, right?